Tuesday 7 February 1659/60
In the morning I went early to give Mr. Hawly notice of my being forced to go into London, but he having also business we left our office business to Mr. Spicer and he and I walked as far as the Temple, where I halted a little and then went to Paul’s School, but it being too soon, went and drank my morning draft with my cozen Tom Pepys the turner, and saw his house and shop, thence to school, where he that made the speech for the seventh form in praise of the founder, did show a book which Mr. Crumlum had lately got, which is believed to be of the Founder’s own writing. After all the speeches, in which my brother John came off as well as any of the rest, I went straight home and dined, then to the Hall, where in the Palace I saw Monk’s soldiers abuse Billing and all the Quakers, that were at a meeting-place there, and indeed the soldiers did use them very roughly and were to blame.1 So after drinking with Mr. Spicer, who had received 600l. for me this morning, I went to Capt. Stone and with him by coach to the Temple Gardens (all the way talking of the disease of the stone), where we met Mr. Squib, but would do nothing till to-morrow morning. Thence back on foot home, where I found a letter from my Lord in character, which I construed, and after my wife had shewn me some ribbon and shoes that she had taken out of a box of Mr. Montagu’s which formerly Mr. Kipps had left here when his master was at sea, I went to Mr. Crew and advised with him about it, it being concerning my Lord’s coming up to Town, which he desires upon my advice the last week in my letter. Thence calling upon Mrs. Ann I went home, and wrote in character to my Lord in answer to his letter. This day Mr. Crew told me that my Lord St. John is for a free Parliament, and that he is very great with Monk, who hath now the absolute command and power to do any thing that he hath a mind to do.
Mr. Moore told me of a picture hung up at the Exchange of a great pair of buttocks shooting of a turd into Lawson’s mouth, and over it was wrote “The thanks of the house.”
Boys do now cry “Kiss my Parliament, instead of “Kiss my [rump],” so great and general a contempt is the Rump come to among all the good and bad.
45 Annotations
First Reading
Eric Walla • Link
Slow down, Sam, slow down!
I get the feeling so much happened this day that Sam was racing to get it all recorded. Kiss my Parliament indeed!
I'm concerned about Mrs. Pepys' ways. I just defended her on the "black hood" issue, whereas now I find her with Mr. Montagu's ribbon and shoes. She is putting together an entire wardrobe without loss of coin. I hope she minds herself in the shops.
Keith Wright • Link
Quite so, Eric---SP's hasty syntax loosens one's grips on the antecedents:
"after my wife had shewn me some ribbon and shoes that she had taken out of a box of Mr. Montagu’s which formerly Mr. Kipps had left here when his master was at sea, I went to Mr. Crew and advised with him about it, it being concerning my Lord’s coming up to Town, which he desires upon my advice the last week in my letter."
---"it" would seem to refer to the rediscovered goods which seem to belong to Montagu.
But then "it" becomes the possibility of Montagu coming to London, as SP suggested the previous week. Montagu wants to do so---or is it Crew who is doing the wishing?
Stay tuned. Maybe Montagu will get his shoes and ribbons back after all.
Roger Miller • Link
This is the Society of Friends (Quakers) article from the 1911 Encyclopedia.
http://65.1911encyclopedia.org/F/… (scroll down a bit)
"To the student of ecclesiastical history it [the Society] is remarkable as exhibiting a form of Christianity widely divergent from the prevalent types, being a religious fellowship which has no formulated creed demanding definite subscription, and no liturgy, priesthood or outward sacrament, and which gives to women an equal place with men in church organization"
Wayne Steele • Link
I love the picture hung up at the Exchange. I would have thought "Turd" was a more recent slang.
Questions:
Why is Lawson so disliked?
Is the giant pair of buttock an allusion to the "rump" parliment?
language hat • Link
"turd" far from recent!
Here are some of the OED citations:
c.1000 Sax. Leechd. II. 62 Swines tord. c.1000 Sax. Leechd. 330 Niwe horses tord. 1382 Wyclif Zeph. i.17 The blood of hem shal be shed out as erthe, and the bodyes of hem as tordis. 1483 Cath. Angl. 189/2 An Horse turde, donarium. 1553 Bale Vocacyon 45 Yet will a toorde be but a stinkinge toorde, both in smele and syght, pepper him and bawme him..as wele as they can. 1651 C. Cartwright Cert. Relig. i.91 No marvel that he [Luther] is so taxed for his stincking repetition of turds and dunghils. 1761 Brit. Mag. II. 63 Thatch your house with t--d, and you'll have more teachers than reachers. 1922 Joyce Ulysses 649 The horse..added his quota by letting fall on the floor..three smoking globes of turds. 1968 Listener 1 Aug. 152/2 His protest at the killing in Vietnam is at least original: he parcels up a rich turd and mails it to the White House.
language hat • Link
the "great pair of buttocks":
Yes, I think we can safely ass-ume this is an allusion to the Rump! ("Kiss my Parliament" is a great line and a credit to the wit of the London street urchin.)
Pauline • Link
"...my being forced to go into London..."
Can someone clarify this? We think of Sam as working and living in London. This must be in reference to "the City"? This is confusing to USers. I assume that the school is "in London"? And any idea from how far away "my lord" Montague comes "up to Town"?
language hat • Link
"forced to go into London…”
Pepys lives and (mostly) works in Westminster, which was a separate city at the time; to get to London you went up King St. to Charing Cross, turned right, and went east along the Strand. The Temple was at the west edge of London proper. Like Brooklyn and New York, they’ve since been joined.
Rodney Fox • Link
the City of London is probaly about 5 miles from were Sam hung out. Whithall,The Strand, Fleet St.,Ludgate hill, St. Pauls, and Cannon St to Mansion House,which is the seat of the Lord Mayor.
john simmons • Link
Lord Montague up to town...
According to Tomalin, Montague has been staying at his estate, Hinchingbrooke House, at Huntingdon. Waiting there to watch political developments in London and abroad. A coach trip into London is described as being two days long, with many stops and starts along the way. For Sam as a man..."thought nothing of riding a hired horse from London to Huntingdon in a day."
Pat Lashley • Link
Yesterday's 'dinner' discussion.
As I understand it, the meals are properly called breakfast, luncheon, and supper. Dinner is the largest meal of the day, whichever meal that may be. Even if it's breakfast. (Although that usage is vanishingly rare.) The class and job distinctions mentioned in various postings yesterday would contribute to the choice of luncheon or supper as the largest meal, and therefore 'dinner'.
Larry Bunce • Link
In US rural usage, the midday meal is still called 'dinner,' with the evening meal called 'supper.' (although in the West, any time after noon is called "evenin'") "Sunday dinner" still seems to mean an afternoon meal.
I have seen a book published around 1904 with some tips for proper grammar, that was fighting a losing battle to remind the reader that 'lunch' is the verb, 'luncheon' is the noun.
Glyn • Link
“Kiss my [rump],”
Has this entry been censored? Would anyone please check it with the Latham edition? I suspect the London boys probably said "kiss my arse" rather than "rump". Or was this a play on words because of the "Rump" Parliament?
Keith Wright • Link
Tangential corroboration:
In the U.S. Mid-South the same designations apply that Larry B. mentions for the West---though "evenin'" is now heard only from older folks (i.e., older than me). As opposed to the North (where they eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner), no one young or old born in the Mid-South seems to eat lunch.
Andrea • Link
'letter from my Lord in character'
So, Pepys is using a code when writing to Montagu. Does anybody know if they had political secrets etc. to exchange?
I know it was quite common to write in codes if you were involved in big politics. Walsingham built an amazing espionage network during Elizabeth I reign and a deciphered code did cost Mary Queen of Scots her head. But is it normal for people like Pepys to use them or is it because times are getting a bit hot now?
There is a great book by Simon Singh called The Code book, but mine is in storage...
john simmons • Link
"Letter from my Lord"
Pepys was Montagu's eyes and ears in London during this very important transitional time. His job, and nobody better, was to keep Montagu up do date on political developments. According to three sources, Pepys was in the dark as to Montagu's political plans. He therefore kept his coded messages precise and unbiased, which is probably what Montagu wanted. Montagu had sided with Cromwell in the Civil War and had a very delicate hand to play if he was going to switch sides.
language hat • Link
"Kiss my [rump]":
Yes, the original has "arse."
Martin K. Foys • Link
Lord Montague up to town…
So does anyone know where Lord Montague lived while staying in London?
gerry • Link
Regsrding the Lawson picture the original(per L&M) has shitting rather tha shooting.
Fred Coleman • Link
Wheatley bowdlerizes in two places in the final two paragraphs of today's entry. According to Latham and Matthews, here's what he actually wrote: "Mr. Moore told me of a picture hung up at the Exchange, of a great pair of buttocks shitting of a turd into Lawson's mouth, and over it was writ "The thanks of the House." Boys do now cry "Kiss my Parliament" instead of "Kiss my arse," so great and general a contempt is the Rump come to among all men, good and bad."
M. Stolzenbach • Link
Seems rather rich to allow "buttocks" and "turd" and then censor "arse."
Especially after the editor censored Pepys' very mild expression in his first entry about his wife proving not to be with child (Tomalin quotes it, and it's just something about "hath her terms.")
Interesting to note Pepys' discourse about "the disease of the stone." He had undergone in 1658 the terrifying and dangerous operation (no anesthetics of course) to remove his own kidney stone, and survived, for which he was eternally grateful. Tomalin's account is truly harrowing and will make you glad to be living 400 years later.
Keith Wright • Link
Or even 200 years later: Fanny Burney (then Mme. d'Arblay) had to have a mastectomy in Paris in 1811. "The only approach to an anesthetic available was a wine cordial," as the (late, alas) D. J. Enright notes in introducing Burney's own account. See "Ill at Ease: Writers on Ailments Real and Imagined," Faber & Faber, 1989, wherein Pepys is also well-represented.
Sam • Link
There are many entries in which S.P talks of 'characters' - either being asked to write them ( i'm sure it was causing him some distress a good few entries back ) or doing so of his own accord. Could someone explain the meaning of this a little more please. I think everybody's posts have been most helpful in making this site the amazing experience that it is - i don't want to take anything away from Phil though!
M.Stolzenbach • Link
Well, of course wine or stronger drinks were available in Pepys' day, but for some reason they were not, at the time, recommended for this operation.
I am also glad to live 200 years later than Mme D'Arblay - have read her account and shivered.
http://www.wesclark.com/jw/mastec…
Mostly, the patient was strapped down and held down by strong attendants, and speed above all was at a premium for surgeons.
Tomalin prints an extremely detailed engraving of a patient being readied for the operation Pepys had. Brrrr!
David Milofsky • Link
If, as Language Hat says, the section is bowdlerized and "rump" has been substituted for "arse," why has "turd" been allowed to stand? It seems as if this would be at least as offensive to those who would be offended as arse. And if it has been changed, we lose the nice pun on rump parliament. Any ideas?
j a gioia • Link
a picture hung up at the Exchange
rather than the "boys" putting up this early example of political cartooning, i wonder if it wasn't the work of a printer; more a broadside than grafitti.
David Milofsky • Link
Tomalin says the reason alcohol wasn't used as an anaesthetic during Pepys' operation (truly chilling description) is because the operation involved the urinary tract and obviously alcohol would have complicated things. As a result Pepys apparently endured the whole thing with no anaesthetic at all. It's also interesting that she notes that it was believed that sutures shouldn't be used so the patient had to suffer with an open wound until it either healed or he died, as many patients did.
M. Stolzenbach • Link
Today, as we talk of censorship, seems a good place to slip in a quotation I have been pondering and have finally succeeded in typing out.
The well-known writer C.S. Lewis, who had long been a don at Oxford, was late in life invited to take a Professorship at Magdalene College, Cambridge, Pepys' alma mater, whose library received Pepys' donation of books including his Diary.
In 1960, Lewis was apparently asked for his opinion, as a Fellow, about what he calls the "curious" passages, since Magdalene was planning to issue a new edition (the 1970 one).
His letter of 17 June 1960 to Sir Henry Willink, the Master of Magdalene at the time, has some delightful turns of phrase (in my opinion). It follows:
"A prudential and moral problem are both involved.
"The prudential one is concerned (a) with the chances of a prosecution, and (b) with the chances of disrepute and ridicule. On (a) it would be ridiculous for me to express an opinion in your presence and Mickey's. [R.W.M. Dias, also a Fellow of Magdalene, was a University Lecturer in Law] As to (b) a spiteful or merely jocular journalist would certainly make us for a week of two malodorous in the public nostril. But a few weeks, or years, are nothing in the life of the College. I think it would be pusillanimous and unscholarly to delete a syllable on that score.
"The moral problem comes down to the question 'Is it probable that the inclusion of these passages will lead anyone to commit an immoral act which he would not have committed if we had suppressed them?' Now of course this question is strictly unanswerable. No one can foresee the odd results that any words may have on this or that individual. We ourselves, in youth, have been both corrupted and edified by books in which our elders could have foreseen neither edification nor corruption. But to suggest that in a society where the most potent aphrodisiacs are daily put forward by the advertisers, the newspapers, and the films, any perceptible increment of lechery will be caused by printing a few obscure and widely separated passages in a very long and expensive book, seems to me ridiculous, or even hypocritical.
"A very severe moralist might argue that it is not enough to be unable to foresee harm: that we ought, before we act, to be able to foresee with certainty the absence of harm. But this, as you see, would prove too much. It is really an argument against doing, or not doing, any action whatever. For they all go on having consequences, mostly unforeseeable, to the world's end.
"I am therefore in favour of printing the whole unexpurgated Pepys."
j. simmons • Link
M. Stolzenbach...Bravo! Thank you.
Fred Bacon • Link
Lawson, Monk and the Parliment
I'm not terribly familiar with this era of English history. I'm curious about the political meaning of the picture hung up at the Exchange. It sounds as though Monk and Lawson may have been perceived as offering competing courses for the future of England. By receiving Monk in such grand fashion, Lawson's supporters seem to be enraged with the Parliment. Is that the correct interpretation, or am I missing some other subtlety of the current political situation?
nick sweeney • Link
I think you're right, Fred: Lawson supported the Rump, and the Rump appears to have shown its gratitude by... well, the broadside sheet (as I suspect it was) makes it clear. I don't think it was so much 'competing courses' as 'competing to lead the land down the particular course'.
("Kiss my arse", I believe, goes back as far as Chaucer. At least, there's the Miller's Tale to go on.)
Pauline • Link
...a good place to slip in a quotation ...
Thank you M. for typing this up. Lots of eloquent writing out there spurred by the issue of censorship. Now we have a wonderful example, and on behalf of the Diary.
Martin K. Foys • Link
Stone and stone
Funny that as Sam walks with Capt. Stone the conversation turns to his own medical stone. . . . perhaps an attempt by Sam to be witty (but how did Capt. Stone take it?).
PHE • Link
So 'turd' preceeded Richard III.
Bonny • Link
Martin, did you see that on the 6th, Sam met Swan and they went to the Swan?
Grahamt • Link
Re: Seems rather rich to allow “buttocks” and “turd” …
Even in modern British English, buttocks and turd are acceptable, if crude, whereas arse and shit would not be used in polite conversation.
Sadly the “dumbing down” of the language and the huge increase in everyday profanity means this is probably the last generation where this will be the case.
Nix • Link
On the antiquity of turds --
"By God!" quoth he, "for, plainly at one word,
Thy drafty rhyming is not worth a tord"
-- Chaucer, The Canterbury Tales
I can remember snickering over this line in a poetry class my freshman year of college.
Terry Foreman • Link
"Fox, or some other ‘weighty’ friend”
Though notably egalitarian, Quakers recognize as “weighty” those whose integrity and spiritual influence lend weight to their opinions.
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"then to the Hall, where in the Palace I saw Monk’s soldiers abuse Billing and all the Quakers, that were at a meeting-place there, and indeed the soldiers did use them very roughly and were to blame."
The Scottish soldiers were, more than the English, unfriendly to Quakers. For this incident and its effects, see W.C. Braithwaite, Beginnings of Quakerism, p.471. On 9 March Monck issued an order forbidding his men to disturb Quaker meetings. Edward Billing (a Westminster brewer) was a prominent Friend; the meeting was probably that held at the house of Stephem Hart in New Palace Uard: Braithwaite, p. 179. (L&M note)
Terry Foreman • Link
"I found a letter from my Lord in character, which I construed, and after my wife had shewn me some ribbon and shoes that she had taken out of a box of Mr. Montagu’s which formerly Mr. Kipps had left here when his master was at sea"
George Mountagu, cousin of 'my Lord', had accompanied him on the Baltic Voyage of 1659. (L&M)
Terry Foreman • Link
"This day Mr. Crew told me that my Lord St. John is for a free Parliament, and that he is very great with Monk"
Oliver St. John, Lord Chief Justice of Common Pleas, was a leader of the Presbyterian politicians and both Crew and Monck, and now in favor of something more than the mere admission of the secluded members. He was already in touch with royalist agensy (Calendar of the Clarendon State Papers, iv. 533), but was distrusted by them, and was usually counted an adherent of Oliver Cromwell. (L&M note)
Doug Quixote • Link
King Edward I's witticism "A man does good business when he rids himself of a turd" dates to about 1290. (Referring to Scotland, as he handed over local control to a subordinate :) )
Third Reading
Elizabeth • Link
What a delightful turn of phrase!
"a spiteful or merely jocular journalist would certainly make us for a week of two malodorous in the public nostril."
There are so many interesting quotes and notes on this board. Thanks so much, Phil and Terry.
LKvM • Link
Re Rodney Fox:
"The City of London is probably about 5 miles from were Sam hung out. Whitehall, The Strand, Fleet St.,Ludgate hill, St. Pauls, and Cannon St to Mansion House,which is the seat of the Lord Mayor."
I've walked all of that, and it didn't seem like 5 miles at all, so I checked Google Maps. Walking from the center of Westminster ("where Sam hung out") to the Temple (to see brother John's apposition) is 1.1 miles, and from there on into the City of London is a total of only 2.6 miles.
Nate Lockwood • Link
'Writing in character' by Mary, Queen of Scots, was mentioned in 'Nature Briefing' today, a daily missive from Nature Magazine; this one with a link to Gizmodo. It shows some of the substitutions.
Nature said: "Three scientists have decrypted 57 letters by Mary, Queen of Scots, written in cipher in the years before she was executed in 1587 for plotting to assassinate Queen Elizabeth I of England. "
(I was disappointed that there was no mention of letters written in the years after her execution ....)
https://gizmodo.com/coded-letters…