Friday 4 October 1661
By coach to White Hall with Sir W. Pen. So to Mr. Montagu, where his man, Mons. Eschar, makes a great complaint against the English, that they did help the Spaniards against the French the other day; and that their Embassador do demand justice of our King, and that he do resolve to be gone for France the next week; which I, and all that I met with, are very glad of. Thence to Paternoster Row, where my Will did receive the 50l. I borrowed yesterday. I to the Wardrobe to dinner, and there staid most of the afternoon very merry with the ladies. Then Captain Ferrers and I to the Theatre, and there came too late, so we staid and saw a bit of “Victoria,” which pleased me worse than it did the other day. So we staid not to see it out, but went out and drank a bottle or two of China ale, and so home, where I found my wife vexed at her people for grumbling to eat Suffolk cheese, which I also am vexed at. So to bed.
36 Annotations
First Reading
Pedro. • Link
"Mons. Eschar, makes a great complaint against the English"
Mons. Eschar, that insolent French chap, he's at it again..
"Here I met with Mr. Mage, and discoursing of musique Mons. Eschar spoke so much against the English and in praise of the French that made him mad, and so he went away"
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Pedro. • Link
"where I found my wife vexed at her people for gumbling to eat Suffolk cheese, which I also am vexed at"
There is a saying- "Hunger will break through stone walls and anything but Suffolk cheese�"
1650 - Start of the trade in Cheshire cheese to London by boat following cattle disease in Suffolk in the 1640s. Until then large amounts of Suffolk cheese went to London ordered especially by the Navy. Port records show the growth in Cheshire Cheese landings from 1650. This was a full milk cheese - as originally was Suffolk - but cheaper. Production of Suffolk cheese declined in the wake of cattle disease. Suffolk farmers then switched to making butter for the lucrative London market and made poorer tasting skimmed milk cheeses. After this period, Cheshire Cheese would have been sold at a premium to the now inferior Suffolk Cheese.
http://www.cheeseboard.co.uk/simp…
RexLeo • Link
"...Thence to Paternoster Row, where my Will did receive the 50l. I borrowed yesterday."
What we have here may be an old fashioned "Cash Flow" problem that Sam may be trying to overcome with borrowings. His limited time in office in the recent past must have hit his customary "fees" (and not much of Privy Seal either) and he has been pretty free with spending the money on his pet passions. I suppose Sam is in no danger of being driven into bankruptcy as his net worth is considerably larger than his recent borrowings and is inherently a cautious soul.
JWB • Link
In my mind's eye...
I can see a Thurber dog with caption: Vexed by Suffolk cheese.
Glyn • Link
The Navy was a big buyer of Suffolk cheese, which doubtless is how Pepys "acquired" it (see the Cheese link), and I can see why the Navy would buy it - it sounds as if not only would it have kept for long periods but they could probably have used it as spare planking in emergencies! The fact that it tasted terrible was secondary. No doubt the servants would have preferred meat like their master and mistress, and being given this stuff was adding insult to injury.
Concerning China ale. This seems to have been a sort of fizzy, carbonated drink flavoured with sarsaparilla or china-root. Sounds revolting.
I doubt if it was very strong, or the flavour would have been hidden by the alcohol: he's certainly sober when he goes to bed, which has recently been unusual.You'll notice that this was in bottles, which would preserve the drink for longer than barrrels would, even small ones.
Robert Gertz • Link
Lousy sinkin' Suffolk cheese...T'ain't nothin' like our good ole Cheddar... Grousing below stairs.
Somehow I picture Beth lecturing Jane, etc... "Attendez!...Girls, back when Mr. Pepys and I lived in a beggardly garret at the Montagues' we'd have thanked the good Lord on bended knee for such an abundance of cheese...Would we not, Mr. Pepys?" Stern look at Sam for immediate support... "Indeed, Mrs. Pepys. Such a blessing of the Almighty would have carried us over many a hard week then."
daniel • Link
what would a china ale be?
vicente • Link
Economy time, boss gets grocery monies, so lads and lasses scrimp, back to basics. If it is good for the Tarpaulins, it be good enough for ye. Essex cheese be too deer tho it be near.[Essex. from ewes]
dirk • Link
China ale
Ale flavoured with China-root (Wikipedia)
Isaac Newton's Trinity College notebook (1659) mentions under his "Otiose & frustra expensa":
China Ale 8d
Source:
http://www.newtonproject.ic.ac.uk…
dirk • Link
Will?
Following the storyline of this entry, would Will have been with Sam in the coach from the beginning? Will appears "out of thin air" in Paternoster Row.
dirk • Link
Navy cheese
Cheese was a very important part of the sailor's diet, so it should at least last a reasonable number of weeks.
(In Elisabethan times every "mess" of 4 seamen was allowed 14 ounces of cheese each wednesday and saturday as a standard ration - this was probably still the case in Sam's time.)
vicente • Link
Will? Unfortunately we only get to hear of the juicy 'better' parts of the days events.
Catarina [house of Joao Pires E Filhos, nice chilled] goes down in history as a nice white Portuguese wine, with nice soft cheese.
Robert Gertz • Link
Will?
It is interesting that Will H had to "receive" Pepys' loan money. Hint of a slightly disreputable deal here.
By the way, Sam'l...I seem to recall you having a certain vow in force regarding theater visits?
Mary • Link
Disreputable deal?
I see no hint of that. Doubtless Will had to sign a receipt for monies received, but this doesn't make him a 'receiver' in the modern, pejorative sense.
Nix • Link
China ale --
If it is "a fizzy carbonated drink flavoured with sarsaparilla or china-root" as Glyn and Dirk indicate, it sounds like what we now (at least in U.S.) drink as root beer. I don't know if they have it in U.K., but I can assure you it's not revolting at all.
vicente • Link
Will is in to-days terms a P.A.[Personal Assistant or in some cases dogs body]who is trusted to do EveryThing, pay the bills, pick up the contracts and checks, even pay the bills or the waiter when on a trip [save the special 'alf, those mere details that make life run smooth] pick up this and do that. So necessary to that busy person who has to be here and there participating in this coffee and that liquor. If compatible [except for the brass] become a truly trusted friend.
[very popular position amongst the monied elite]
Todd Bernhardt • Link
re: "a truly trusted friend"
Vincente brings up a good point here ... it's going to be interesting to see, over the course of the diary, the progression of the relationship between Sam and Will, knowing how deep their friendship was later in life (if I recall correctly, Pepys essentially spent his waning years as a guest of Will's, who did very well as a result of their business and personal relationship).
Glyn • Link
Of course this is a Friday, so it may be a meat-free day anyway.
JWB • Link
"China Ale"
Sarsaparilla was thought to be a specific v. syphilis, thus the running joke in old time westerns about ordering a "sassparilla" in a saloon. Ferrers being infected wouldn't be out of character.
Pedro. • Link
Would Cina Ale have Sarsaparilla as we know it?
The Chinese brewed an ale since 23BC called "samshu" brewed from wheat.
S. glabra from China.
"Sarsaparilla vine should not be confused with the large sasparilla and sassafras trees (the root and bark of which were once used to flavor root beer). Sarsaparilla has been used as an ingredient in root beer and other beverages for its foaming properties-not for its flavoring properties.
http://www.rain-tree.com/sarsapar…
Katherine • Link
Oh, irony of ironies, I'm getting quite the chuckle over the fact that the low-fat skim milk Suffolk cheese would probably outsell full millk Cheshire in today's market.
(Still, I'd take the blandish Suffolk any day over the modern abomination known as "cheese food" any day.)
Second Reading
Bill • Link
"grumbling to eat Suffolk cheese"
In Aukward Plenty slovenly I Dine:
And nappy Ale supplies the want of Wine.
No nice Disserts my learned Palate please.
To fill up Chinks—a Slice of Suffolk-Cheese.
---Miscellanies in Verse and Prose. R. Pack, 1719.
Bill • Link
(Dang, nobody liked Suffolk cheese!)
Fine ladies, when they write,
Nor scold nor keep a splutter;
Their verses give delight,
As soft and sweet as butter.
But Satan never saw
Such haggard lines as these;
They stick athwart my maw,
As bad as Suffolk cheese.
---The works of dr. Jonathan Swift. 1765.
Bill • Link
Suffolk-bang Cheese.—There are cases in which dairy-farmers skim the milk before they begin to make cheese. These cheeses arc remarkable for their hardness, because cascine, independently of the butter, is an exceedingly hard substance; and these cheeses are sometimes brought into the market, and they are so hard that they are the subject of many a joke. Of such are the Suffolk-bang cheeses made by frugal housewives in that county, who first take the butter and send it to market, and then make their cheese. It is said of it in derision that "dogs bark at it, pigs grunt at it, but neither of them can bite it."
---Cassell's dictionary of cookery. 1883.
Bill • Link
To make China-Ale, and several other Sorts
To six Gallons of Ale, take a Quarter of a Pound or more of China-root thin sliced, and a Quarter of a Pound of Coriander-Seed bruised; hang these in a Tiffany or coarse Linnen-bag in the Vessel, till it has done working, and let it stand fourteen Days before you bottle it; tho' the common Sort vended about Town, is nothing more (at best) than Ten Shilling Beer, put up in small stone Bottles, with a little Spice, Lemmon-peel, and Raisins or Sugar.
---The London and country brewer. W. Ellis, 1737.
Tim • Link
- Did Lady Batten's enthusiasm persuade Sam to give 'Victoria' another go? - But, no - Lady B's still a fool... Cheese very much an essential food for the servants, sailors and poor- Meat expensive and rare - meatless Fridays no hardship since most other days were meatless. And Sam himself a couple of days ago dined on bread and cheese.
Cara • Link
Thanks for the recipe Bill, I'm fascinated by the food and drink of the time. We have a TV programme in UK (not sure where you are) where a group of historians lived the daily lives of a farming community in the Stuart age 'Tales from the Green Valley'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tale…
it's interesting but I have to say, I'm never tempted by the dishes!! I think you can get it on YouTube if you have a mind...
Chris Squire UK • Link
OED has:
'Suffolk cheese n.
. . 1661 S. Pepys Diary 4 Oct. (1970) II. 191, I find my wife vexed at her people for grumbling to eate Suffolk cheese.
1797 A. Young Gen. View Agric. Suffolk 203 Cheese 5d., but Suffolk 3½d. and 4d.'
jimmigee • Link
I recently heard cheese referred to as "dairy crack!"
Terry Foreman • Link
"Mons. Eschar, makes a great complaint against the English, that they did help the Spaniards against the French the other day; and that their Embassador do demand justice of our King, and that he do resolve to be gone for France the next week; which I, and all that I met with, are very glad of."
For the dispute https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… and https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… D'Estrades left on 8 October, and returned on the following 14 January. Nothing came of the French demand that Charles should dismiss the Spanish ambassador from the couuntry and punish the Londoners alleged to have taken part in the affray. But the Spanish king was forced to withdraws his ambassador from London, and to give not only an apology for this incident but [also] a promise to yield precedence to the French in thew future. The two monarchies did not reach an agreement about rules of precedence until 1761. In England the incident led to a ruling by Charles II that in future only British subjects should take part in state entries: CSPD 1661-2, p. 104. (L&M note)
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Sarsaparilla vine should not be confused with the large sasparilla and sassafras trees (the root and bark of which were once used to flavor root beer)."
CORRECT -- Sassafras is sometimes called the USA's only native spice.
Sassafras became such a hot commodity by the mid-1600s, it was the second biggest American export to Europe (tobacco was first).
In the early 17th century, European settlers caught on to the potential in the plant from North America where Indians had been using it for a variety of medicinal purposes. According to the paper, "Sassafras and its Role in Early America, 1562-1662," author B.W. Higinbotham says sassafras "has probably had more to do with the making of early American history than any other plant,"
In the early 1600’s it was believed Sassafras was a wonder drug that could cure just about anything from slowing old age, relieve pain, remove kidney stones, and prevent colds.
Amazing Pepys never tried it, considering his stone and frequent colds.
https://www.myspicer.com/the-hist…
Third Reading
San Diego Sarah • Link
Col. Clanchy [?] [This name is doubtful. In Lord Sandwich's endorsement it appears to have been written "Clanche" (according to sound). Carte has written it "Blanche", which is clearly wrong. The Christian name seems to be "Lewis".] to Sandwich
Written from: Lisbon
Date: 4 October 1661
Shelfmark: MS. Carte 73, fol(s). 594-595
Document type: Holograph
The writer finds himself in a strange country, without friends or a farthing of money. Entreats Lord Sandwich to write, before he leaves for England, a line of recommendation for him to Sir Richard Fanshawe.
FROM:
Carte Calendar Volume 32, June - December 1661
Bodleian Library, University of Oxford
Edward Edwards, 2005
Shelfmark: MS. Carte Calendar 32
Extent: 464 pages
https://wayback.archive-it.org/or…
@@@
Col. Lewis Clanchy [?] -- who knows.
Sir Richard Fanshawe -- "He was employed in several important embassies in this reign; particularly in negotiating the marriage betwixt the king and the infanta, and putting the last hand to a peace betwixt the kingdoms of Spain and Portugal, which had been for 25 years engaged in a ruinous war. He was an exact critic in the Latin tongue, spoke the Spanish [and Portuguese] with ease and propriety, and perfectly understood the Italian. The politeness of his manners, and the integrity of his life, did not only procure him the love and esteem of his own countrymen, but gained him unusual favour and respect in Spain; among a people notorious for their disregard to strangers, and too apt to overlook all merit but their own. He died at Madrid, June 16, 1666. -- A Biographical History of England. J. Granger, 1779.
One of my favorite Stuarts -- a man of integrity with a feisty wife ... https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
My guess is that Sandwich knew -- had possibly employed or fought with -- Col. Clanchy during the recent unpleasantness. Fanshaw is the Ambassador to Portugal, and unlikely to know this stranded young man who is footloose in Lisbon, outside the Palace gates. An introduction is requested. (Alternatively, a free ride home, please?)
San Diego Sarah • Link
Pepys specifically says "China Ale" -- In fact, sarsaparillas were used in folk medicine and entered the international trade market in the 1530s. The drink originates from the Americas, but more specifically modern-day Mexico, Guatemala, and Honduras.
Read More: https://www.mashed.com/268060/the…
The picture on this website says "Sarsaparilla Wine".
He didn't say "Spanish" or "American" wine. He says China Ale.
The third reason my vote is against sarsaparilla is that I think Pepys would have mentioned if at least one of them was in need of a medicinal drink. He is a bit of a hypercondriac, after all.
Ricadus • Link
Perhaps sliced ginger root?
San Diego Sarah • Link
China beer -- Dirk posted what I bet is the right answer in 2004:
Chobchini or China root is native to China, Korea, Taiwan, Japan (including Ryukyu and Bonin Islands), Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Myanmar and Assam.
The plant is scientifically known as Smilax China, and is traditionally used in tribal and folk medicine. Chobchini is hailed as a wonder drug in Ayurveda and Unani.
China cultivates this plant, and exports to many countries. Hence it is usually called China Root.
It is in the genus Smilax and Smilacaceae (Catbrier family). Other common names are Chinese smilax and Bamboo Briar Root.
It is an Ayurvedic herb, made famous in the treatment of the gout of King Charles V. * [SEE NEXT POST]
Roots are the most commonly used part. Stems are equally beneficial. The rhizome of Chobchini can be used in the form of powder or paste, cooked or raw.
The daily intake should not exceed 10 grams, as more may result in nausea and vomiting. The most important medicinal properties of Chobchini are its ability to fight psoriasis, syphilis and leprosy. It is a preferred herbal treatment for psoriasis.
China root is a hard tendril climbing vine that grows up to 5 meter long. It is found in shrub thickets in hills and mountains, forests, hillsides, grassy slopes, and shaded places in valleys or by streams at near sea level. It prefers moist, well-drained soil for better growth.
The plant has hard, large, knotty, uneven rhizome, blackish externally, pale colored internally. The stem is woody, sparsely prickly, and 1–5 m (3 ft. 3 in. to 16 ft. 5 in.) long.
Ayurveda and Unani doctors recommend China Root for leucorrhea in women.
China Root contains several medicinal properties including control of swellings (anti-inflammatory), removal of pus from wounds, promotion of urine (diuretic), bringing down high body temperature, removing gas (flatulence) and clearing bowels.
For pictures of the plant and more info., see
https://www.healthbenefitstimes.c…
San Diego Sarah • Link
CONCLUSION:
* I'm guessing this is the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (1500 – 1558) and not the 14th century king of France. His bio has some nuggets affecting Pepys' world:
"Charles V's sack of Rome (1527) and virtual imprisonment of Pope Clement VII in 1527 prevented the Pope from annulling the marriage of Henry VIII of England and Charles' aunt, Catherine of Aragon, so Henry eventually broke with Rome, thus leading to the English Reformation."
and
"During the 1541 expedition of Algiers, the invading force lost 150 ships, plus many sailors and soldiers. A Turkish chronicler confirmed that the Berber tribes massacred 12,000 invaders. Leaving war materiel, including 100 to 200 guns which would be recovered to furnish the ramparts of Algiers, Charles' army was taken prisoner in such numbers that the markets of Algiers were filled with slaves."
and
"The most famous – and only public – abdication took place on 25 October 1555, when Charles announced to the States General of the Netherlands (reunited in the great hall where he was emancipated 40 years before by Emperor Maximilian) his abdication of those territories in favour of his son, Philip, as well as his intention to step down from all of his positions and retire to a monastery. During the ceremony, the gout-afflicted Emperor Charles V leaned on the shoulder of his advisor William the Silent, crying ..."
So this Charles V had terrible gout, and if he could get China Root in 1555, Pepys could get it in 1660.
And Charles V knew William III's grandfather. This was before the Protestants divided The Netherlands by breaking away from Spain.
He's a fascinating man, who had a large influence on the world Pepys is dealing with -- as well as the guns Sandwich and Lawson are now facing.
This site also has a helpful map:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha…