I think it's more accurate to say the Naseby was sheltering behind the Goodwin Sands from the Channel storms, in an anchorage known as The Downs. Cities serving The Downs include Dover/South Foreland at the south end, Folkstone, Deal, Walmer, Ramsgate, Sandwich, Kingsdown, and Ramsgate/Broadstairs/North Foreland at the north end. https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Before this election, the mayor of Dover, "in a formal letter to Montagu, pointed out the urgency of government help for the repair of the pier, adding that no less than 52 families in the town were owed money by the Admiralty. With some assurance of payment, they would be ready and willing to carry out repairs to the fleet, then lying in the Downs." https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
This tells us that the fleet was not seaworthy yet. And the Naseby had just undergone a refit, so these relocations are part of her shakedown cruise.
Pepys will probably tell us when at least 800 sailors join the ship; as we've discussed, it takes at least that many to fire Naseby's guns, plus more to sail the ship, should she need to act as a warship. The French or the Spanish might think it's a good idea to drown Charles II and James before they reach England!?
The fact that Pepys has his choice of births indicates that they were not up to a full compliment yet.
No mention of victualling happening yet. That's an expense the good people of Dover will want to be paid for by someone at the time.
So, all in all, I think they are pretty much stationary. As stationary as the winds and tides allow.
The British Civil War Project also have a point of view about what happens today:
The reinstated MPs were Presbyterians who had wanted to continue negotiations with King Charles I after the first civil war, and who now sought a restoration of the monarchy, but with constitutional limitations on Charles II's powers. The Presbyterians formed a majority over the republican "Commonwealthsmen" in Parliament and over the few MPs who wanted to revive the Protectorate. A number of Presbyterian church reforms were introduced, but the Long Parliament was obliged to call new elections and duly dissolved itself on 16 March, 1660.
The election campaign for the new Parliament was principally fought over the issue of the monarchy. The nation as a whole almost unanimously favoured the monarch's return, and this was reflected in the election results. The republicans and army officers who had dominated recent parliaments were swept from power and replaced by Royalists and Presbyterians.
The new parliament was called the English "Convention" because it had not been summoned by a sovereign. Unlike the Protectorate parliaments, only English constituencies were represented in the Convention. Separate parliaments for Scotland and Ireland were reinstated.
When the Convention assembled on 25 April 1660, a small group of experienced Presbyterian politicians known as the "Presbyterian Knot" attempted to gain control of Parliament in order to promote their policy of a conditional restoration. The Presbyterian Sir Harbottle Grimston was elected Speaker of the House of Commons before the full House had assembled, and Gen. Edward Montagu, 2nd Earl of Manchester was elected Speaker of the House of Lords, which sat for the first time since its abolition under the Commonwealth in February 1649. Manchester tried to limit attendance at the Lords to 16 senior Presbyterian peers and to exclude the "young Lords" who had come of age during the Interregnum and who were expected to favour an unconditional restoration. However, it proved impossible to restrict attendance, and around 145 peers eventually took their seats, a large majority of whom were Royalists. http://bcw-project.org/church-and…
"That the Lords do meet every day at my Lord of Manchester’s, and resolve to sit the first day of the Parliament."
Anyone know where Gen. Montagu, 2nd Earl of Manchester lived? I tried Googling the history of Manchester House, and the history of Manchester Square, and it's all too recent. I'd like to know where these meetings were being held.
With the collapse of the Protectorate in 1659, Gen. Edward Montagu, 2nd Earl of Manchester became active in bringing about the Restoration. He was associated with the "Presbyterian Knot", a group of Presbyterian politicians that tried to impose constitutional limitations on the monarchy.
Manchester was appointed Speaker of the House of Lords in the Convention Parliament of April 1660.
His attempt to limit attendance of the Lords to peers sympathetic to the aims of the Presbyterian Knot was unsuccessful.
However, he officially welcomed Charles II into London on 29 May 1660 and was appointed lord chamberlain and a privy councillor.
In October 1660, Manchester sat as one of the judges at the trials of the regicides, where he was more inclined towards leniency than most of his fellow judges.
As lord chamberlain, Manchester carried the sword of state at Charles II's coronation in April 1661 at which he was invested as a Knight of the Garter.
He became a joint commissioner for the office of earl marshal in May 1662 and was given command of a regiment during the Second Anglo-Dutch War in 1667.
He was a member of the Royal Society from 1667 until his death.
Manchester's fifth marriage, in 1668, was to Margaret, widow of the Earl of Carlisle and daughter of the Earl of Bedford.
Highly regarded for his modesty and piety, Manchester remained a pillar of the Restoration government until his sudden death in 1671.
During his 5 marriages, Manchester was father to 7 sons and 4 daughters. His eldest son Robert Montagu (1634–83) succeeded him as the 3rd Earl of Manchester; his grandson Charles Montagu (1662-1722) was created 1st Duke of Manchester in 1719.
Sources: Ian J. Gentles, Edward Montagu, second earl of Manchester, Oxford DNB, 2004
Ronald Hutton, The Restoration, a political and religious history of England and Wales 1658-1667, (Oxford 1985)
Bertha Porter, Edward Montagu, second earl of Manchester, DNB, 1894
L&M note Edward Mountagu (son of the 2nd Lord mountagu of Boughton) had acted as intermediary between Mountagu and the court -- in exile in France -- since last summer. (several sources)
My L&M agrees with most of this note, specifically that Edward Montagu took correspondence between the King and the Duke of York in exile and our Edward Montagu. It does not specify where they were. We know they were in Brussels and are now in Bruges -- but never anywhere near France.
"So to sleep, every day bringing me a fresh sense of the pleasure of my present life."
Whenever I go to sea, on a sailboat or a ferry or whatever, I find feelings of peace and wellbeing, with the wind in my hair and the sun on my face. The world is reduced to the here-and-now, and my troubles are left behind on the quayside. I think Pepys is experiencing something like that. No past regrets, no future fears.
Supernumeraries (those above ["super"] the official number on board):
L&M: Supernumeraries (men carried aboard extra to the ships' complements) were to cause a great deal of trouble later to Pepys as Surveyor-General of Victualing. Sometimes they were authorized by the flag-officers and the Lord Admiral.
Peach on 22 Jul 2019: I assume officers had entourages then as they do now. It's never JUST a Captain; it's usually Captain, XO, several senior officers, a contingent of junior officers, some senior enlisted, and a junior enlisted to take notes or run messages. The average orbit of an Admiral pushes 20 personnel. The gaggle of hangers-on must be worse when the officers are also nobility/gentry. Plus with all the favors and nepotism going on, a few extra "open positions" on any given ship might free up if some officer's buddy needed cash or glory. All to the chagrin of Pepys, trying so hard to keep accurate books and forecasts of supplies.
"All the morning giving out orders and tickets to the Commanders of the Fleet to discharge all supernumeraries that they had above the number that the Council had set in their last establishment."
That sounds like a lot of cross-referencing and writing to me, especially as Pepys' clerk has yet to catch up with the Naseby. I wonder if he ever will -- and if he will be paid for the time he's been MIA.
"Writing to Monck on 12 April, Montagu complained against Capt. Deakins of the Worcester as an Anabaptist ... and against Newberry of the Plymouth ... Montagu asked that they should both be removed, but that he be spared the task of proposing their dismissal: Carte 73, f.399r (copy in Montagu’s hand)."
So Montagu had not confided these misgivings to Pepys 2 days ago. In order for Monck to reply to Montagu this fast, there had to be relays of riders, pushing through a storm no less, and Monck replying immediately.
I think this demonstrates teamwork and support for Sandwich, not disrespect on Monck's part.
So I wonder why Emilio says "Some of Sam's emerging dislike of Monk would quite likely be coming from his Lord." I see no evidence to support this comment on anyone's part.
" the University of Cambridge had a mind to choose him for their burgess"
"BURGESS -- In the context of Cambridge University, a representative in Parliament; in the context of the town either that or a freeman of the borough. "From 1604 until the abolition of the University constituencies in 1950, resulting from the Representation of the People Act of 1948, the University returned two members of Parliament." -- https://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/univers…
"L&M: Monck, elected [as MP] both for Cambridge University and for Devonshire, had chosen to serve for the latter. This offer was thereupon transferred to Montagu"
So now Montagu now has his choice of 3 seats in the House of Commons.
Four months ago he was quietly retired at Hinchingbrooke, biding his time, hoping the world would turned upside down again. It's gratifying to come out on top of the rollercoaster of history, even if it doesn't necessarily last.
I see no harm in expressing gratitude and appreciation for the good times to your friends.
The other day Montagu confided in Pepys that he has doubts about the reliability of Capt. Roger Cuttance, but did not mention Lt. David Lambert. https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Today's note that Gen. John Lambert is firing up the opposition to the monarchy makes me wonder if David is related to John, which coincides with notes in his biographies. In which case, why didn't Montagu mention Lambert?
Apparently Montagu wasn't worried enough about Cuttance to request his removal.
Good management move making Monck the "bad" guy on these personnel changes.
There is a long discussion of the Spring 1660 elections for Weymouth and Dover -- Adm. Edward Montagu ran for both of them -- starting at https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
"My Lord is chosen at Waymouth this morning; [IE Montagu was elected as an MP for Weymouth today] SEMI-COLON "my Lord had his freedom brought him by Captain Tiddiman of the port of Dover, by which he is capable of being elected for them." [IE as a freeman of the city of Dover, Montagu can now stand in their election, which is what he did]. https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Elections at Dover during the Diary times, according to the House of Commons website:
Throughout the period Dover, the largest of the Cinque Ports, displayed remarkable independence of the government interest.
In 1660 Edward Montagu was entrusted with the writ; but the gallant admiral’s return was by no means plain sailing. The jurats expressed delight at the honour intended for the borough, but could not conceal that ‘some less considerate persons may be somewhat pre-engaged’. His chief rival was Arnold Braemes, a local gentleman who had been an active Cavalier, but eventually they seem to have agreed to join their interests. The mayor, in a formal letter to Montagu, pointed out the urgency of government help for the repair of the pier, adding that no less than 52 families in the town were owed money by the Admiralty. With some assurance of payment, they would be ready and willing to carry out repairs to the fleet, then lying in the Downs.
It seems clear that there was a contest, but the names of the unsuccessful candidates are not known. When Montagu was created Earl of Sandwich he wrote to the corporation in favour of his cousin George Montagu. But on 29 June, 1660, a correspondent wrote to Samuel Pepys that ‘there was a great party made for Sir Francis Vincent’, lieutenant-governor of the castle, who had been recommended by the Duke of York. However, the mayor and alderman, fortified by a letter from the newly appointed lord lieutenant of Kent, ‘promised all to stand for Mr Montagu’. The Duke professed himself ‘unwilling to disoblige either in this business’.
Vincent and Montagu were both made freemen on the day of the election; the latter was returned, but the poll has not survived.
On 20 Mar. 1661 the corporation resolved that ‘if any freeman tries to make any party or parties among the freemen for the electing of mayor or Members of Parliament, he shall lose his freedom’. It is probable, therefore, that the general election 6 weeks later, in which Vincent and George Montagu were returned, was uncontested, although Vincent alone was nominated by the Duke.
Rick Ansell, who seems to know about these things, posted in 2003:
The masts of large vessels of the time (and later) were in sections. Each one was parallel to the one below for a distance. Generally, there were three sections, Lower, Top and Topgallent. The Courses (Fore Course, Main Course and Mizzen) were attached to the lower masts. The Topsails were attached to the Topmast and the Topgallent and Royal to the Topgallent mast.
When bad weather threatened the Topgallent mast would be struck (taken down) to reduce the unnecessary drag and preserve it from harm. It would be useless anyway, in high winds sail was reduced and the Topgallent and Royal were the weakest and most weakly supported sails.
When very severe weather threatened the Topmasts would be struck. Likewise, the Yards that supported the sails could be struck down on deck.
At anchor there was no need to use the sails so the masts and yards only served to give the wind something to push against, producing extra strain on the anchor which, if the force was enough, might drag (give way).
In amongst the dangerous banks of the Goodwins you definitely don't want a dragging anchor: once on a bank in high winds the ship could be beaten to pieces very rapidly.
And Alan Morel added Re: ...lowering the masts...
If high winds are expected and the vessel is anchored, then the upper third portion of a mast (the topgallant) would be 'struck', or disconnected from the bottom two-thirds of the mast, then lowered to the deck to be lashed safely. https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
"Sounds like he is just coming home from exile, but he could be a player in the ongoing negotiations."
Yes, George Goring, 1st Earl of Norwich was returning from 10 years in exile. But it's also perfectly reasonable for us to assume he was carrying correspondence from others at the exiled court to ... you name them. It would have been helpful if Pepys had told us where he was going next, or what his plans were.
You're right, Terry ... Charles Boyle's Parliamentary bio records:
b. 17 Nov. 1639, 2nd s. of Richard Boyle, 2nd Earl of Cork [I] and 1st Earl of Burlington (d. 15 Jan. 1698), by Lady Elizabeth Clifford, suo jure Baroness Clifford, da. and h. of Henry Clifford, 5th Earl of Cumberland. educ. Christ Church, Oxf. 1654, ****** travelled abroad (Holland, France) Apr.-Aug. 1660. ****** m. (1) 2 May 1661, Lady Jane Seymour (d. 23 Nov. 1679), da. of William Seymour, and Duke of Somerset, 4s. 6da.; m. (2) 26 Jan. 1688, Lady Arethusa Berkeley (d. 11 Feb. 1743), da. of George, 1st Earl of Berkeley, 1da. summ. to Lords as Visct. Dungarvan 20 Feb. 1663; styled Lord Clifford 20 Mar. 1664; summ. to Lords in his father’s barony as Lord Clifford of Lanesborough 16 July, 1689.
It further specifies that "On the eve of the Restoration Clifford [as Charles Byle would later be known] brought some packets from England to the King, returning a few months later in the company of Sir John Reresby."
Since he wasn't elected to Parliament until 1669, they don't give us anything further about him relative to Pepys. https://www.historyofparliamenton…
So Robert Boyle FRS was his uncle, as was the playwrite Roger Boyle, 1st Earl of Orrery.
"I wonder where Autumnbreeze got the idea that Dorothea St.Michel was of Irish origin."
Turns out I owe Autumnbreeze an apology. Turns out Dorothea's father was probably Francis Kingsmill, and the Kingsmills were Anglo-Irish:
Pauline says about Elizabeth Pepys' religion: "Her father (Alexandre de St. Michel) was born a French Catholic, but converted to the Protestant faith as a young professional soldier fighting in Germany. He married Dorothea, the daughter of Sir Francis Kingsmill, in Ireland." Quoting from Claire Tomalin, Samuel Pepys: The Unequaled Self. https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
And Language Hat reminds us: "Description of Elizabeth and the marriage" from Bryant's Pepys bio: "He [PEPYS] had not long left Cambridge when he met his match. She was the daughter of a French Huguenot who had come over to England with Queen Henrietta Maria, lost his place at Court..., and married the daughter of an Anglo-Irish gentleman ..." https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
The Kingsmills were well-to-do and connected. Perhaps Dorothea was disinherited for marrying a tradesman? Her father, Francis, would have been a junior branch of the family, and would probably have had to make his way in life on his own.
Comments
Third Reading
About Thursday 19 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"We are sailing slowly."
I think it's more accurate to say the Naseby was sheltering behind the Goodwin Sands from the Channel storms, in an anchorage known as The Downs. Cities serving The Downs include Dover/South Foreland at the south end, Folkstone, Deal, Walmer, Ramsgate, Sandwich, Kingsdown, and Ramsgate/Broadstairs/North Foreland at the north end.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Before this election, the mayor of Dover, "in a formal letter to Montagu, pointed out the urgency of government help for the repair of the pier, adding that no less than 52 families in the town were owed money by the Admiralty. With some assurance of payment, they would be ready and willing to carry out repairs to the fleet, then lying in the Downs."
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
This tells us that the fleet was not seaworthy yet. And the Naseby had just undergone a refit, so these relocations are part of her shakedown cruise.
Pepys will probably tell us when at least 800 sailors join the ship; as we've discussed, it takes at least that many to fire Naseby's guns, plus more to sail the ship, should she need to act as a warship. The French or the Spanish might think it's a good idea to drown Charles II and James before they reach England!?
The fact that Pepys has his choice of births indicates that they were not up to a full compliment yet.
No mention of victualling happening yet. That's an expense the good people of Dover will want to be paid for by someone at the time.
So, all in all, I think they are pretty much stationary. As stationary as the winds and tides allow.
About St Margaret's (Westminster)
San Diego Sarah • Link
Pictures of St. Margarets, plus details of how to get in these days, see
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/artic…
About Wednesday 25 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
The British Civil War Project also have a point of view about what happens today:
The reinstated MPs were Presbyterians who had wanted to continue negotiations with King Charles I after the first civil war, and who now sought a restoration of the monarchy, but with constitutional limitations on Charles II's powers.
The Presbyterians formed a majority over the republican "Commonwealthsmen" in Parliament and over the few MPs who wanted to revive the Protectorate.
A number of Presbyterian church reforms were introduced, but the Long Parliament was obliged to call new elections and duly dissolved itself on 16 March, 1660.
The election campaign for the new Parliament was principally fought over the issue of the monarchy. The nation as a whole almost unanimously favoured the monarch's return, and this was reflected in the election results.
The republicans and army officers who had dominated recent parliaments were swept from power and replaced by Royalists and Presbyterians.
The new parliament was called the English "Convention" because it had not been summoned by a sovereign. Unlike the Protectorate parliaments, only English constituencies were represented in the Convention. Separate parliaments for Scotland and Ireland were reinstated.
When the Convention assembled on 25 April 1660, a small group of experienced Presbyterian politicians known as the "Presbyterian Knot" attempted to gain control of Parliament in order to promote their policy of a conditional restoration.
The Presbyterian Sir Harbottle Grimston was elected Speaker of the House of Commons before the full House had assembled, and Gen. Edward Montagu, 2nd Earl of Manchester was elected Speaker of the House of Lords, which sat for the first time since its abolition under the Commonwealth in February 1649.
Manchester tried to limit attendance at the Lords to 16 senior Presbyterian peers and to exclude the "young Lords" who had come of age during the Interregnum and who were expected to favour an unconditional restoration. However, it proved impossible to restrict attendance, and around 145 peers eventually took their seats, a large majority of whom were Royalists.
http://bcw-project.org/church-and…
About Wednesday 18 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
WRONG, Sarah! No Bruges -- Breda!
About Wednesday 18 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"That the Lords do meet every day at my Lord of Manchester’s, and resolve to sit the first day of the Parliament."
Anyone know where Gen. Montagu, 2nd Earl of Manchester lived? I tried Googling the history of Manchester House, and the history of Manchester Square, and it's all too recent. I'd like to know where these meetings were being held.
About Edward Mountagu (2nd Earl of Manchester, Lord Chamberlain)
San Diego Sarah • Link
With the collapse of the Protectorate in 1659, Gen. Edward Montagu, 2nd Earl of Manchester became active in bringing about the Restoration. He was associated with the "Presbyterian Knot", a group of Presbyterian politicians that tried to impose constitutional limitations on the monarchy.
Manchester was appointed Speaker of the House of Lords in the Convention Parliament of April 1660.
His attempt to limit attendance of the Lords to peers sympathetic to the aims of the Presbyterian Knot was unsuccessful.
However, he officially welcomed Charles II into London on 29 May 1660 and was appointed lord chamberlain and a privy councillor.
In October 1660, Manchester sat as one of the judges at the trials of the regicides, where he was more inclined towards leniency than most of his fellow judges.
As lord chamberlain, Manchester carried the sword of state at Charles II's coronation in April 1661 at which he was invested as a Knight of the Garter.
He became a joint commissioner for the office of earl marshal in May 1662 and was given command of a regiment during the Second Anglo-Dutch War in 1667.
He was a member of the Royal Society from 1667 until his death.
Manchester's fifth marriage, in 1668, was to Margaret, widow of the Earl of Carlisle and daughter of the Earl of Bedford.
Highly regarded for his modesty and piety, Manchester remained a pillar of the Restoration government until his sudden death in 1671.
During his 5 marriages, Manchester was father to 7 sons and 4 daughters. His eldest son Robert Montagu (1634–83) succeeded him as the 3rd Earl of Manchester; his grandson Charles Montagu (1662-1722) was created 1st Duke of Manchester in 1719.
Sources:
Ian J. Gentles, Edward Montagu, second earl of Manchester, Oxford DNB, 2004
Ronald Hutton, The Restoration, a political and religious history of England and Wales 1658-1667, (Oxford 1985)
Bertha Porter, Edward Montagu, second earl of Manchester, DNB, 1894
From http://bcw-project.org/biography/…
About Wednesday 18 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
L&M note Edward Mountagu (son of the 2nd Lord mountagu of Boughton) had acted as intermediary between Mountagu and the court -- in exile in France -- since last summer. (several sources)
My L&M agrees with most of this note, specifically that Edward Montagu took correspondence between the King and the Duke of York in exile and our Edward Montagu. It does not specify where they were. We know they were in Brussels and are now in Bruges -- but never anywhere near France.
About Tuesday 17 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"So to sleep, every day bringing me a fresh sense of the pleasure of my present life."
Whenever I go to sea, on a sailboat or a ferry or whatever, I find feelings of peace and wellbeing, with the wind in my hair and the sun on my face. The world is reduced to the here-and-now, and my troubles are left behind on the quayside. I think Pepys is experiencing something like that. No past regrets, no future fears.
About Monday 16 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
Supernumeraries (those above ["super"] the official number on board):
L&M: Supernumeraries (men carried aboard extra to the ships' complements) were to cause a great deal of trouble later to Pepys as Surveyor-General of Victualing. Sometimes they were authorized by the flag-officers and the Lord Admiral.
Peach on 22 Jul 2019:
I assume officers had entourages then as they do now. It's never JUST a Captain; it's usually Captain, XO, several senior officers, a contingent of junior officers, some senior enlisted, and a junior enlisted to take notes or run messages. The average orbit of an Admiral pushes 20 personnel. The gaggle of hangers-on must be worse when the officers are also nobility/gentry. Plus with all the favors and nepotism going on, a few extra "open positions" on any given ship might free up if some officer's buddy needed cash or glory. All to the chagrin of Pepys, trying so hard to keep accurate books and forecasts of supplies.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
About Monday 16 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"All the morning giving out orders and tickets to the Commanders of the Fleet to discharge all supernumeraries that they had above the number that the Council had set in their last establishment."
That sounds like a lot of cross-referencing and writing to me, especially as Pepys' clerk has yet to catch up with the Naseby. I wonder if he ever will -- and if he will be paid for the time he's been MIA.
About Sunday 15 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Writing to Monck on 12 April, Montagu complained against Capt. Deakins of the Worcester as an Anabaptist ... and against Newberry of the Plymouth ... Montagu asked that they should both be removed, but that he be spared the task of proposing their dismissal: Carte 73, f.399r (copy in Montagu’s hand)."
So Montagu had not confided these misgivings to Pepys 2 days ago. In order for Monck to reply to Montagu this fast, there had to be relays of riders, pushing through a storm no less, and Monck replying immediately.
I think this demonstrates teamwork and support for Sandwich, not disrespect on Monck's part.
So I wonder why Emilio says "Some of Sam's emerging dislike of Monk would quite likely be coming from his Lord." I see no evidence to support this comment on anyone's part.
About Sunday 15 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
" the University of Cambridge had a mind to choose him for their burgess"
"BURGESS -- In the context of Cambridge University, a representative in Parliament; in the context of the town either that or a freeman of the borough.
"From 1604 until the abolition of the University constituencies in 1950, resulting from the Representation of the People Act of 1948, the University returned two members of Parliament." --
https://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/univers…
"L&M: Monck, elected [as MP] both for Cambridge University and for Devonshire, had chosen to serve for the latter. This offer was thereupon transferred to Montagu"
So now Montagu now has his choice of 3 seats in the House of Commons.
Four months ago he was quietly retired at Hinchingbrooke, biding his time, hoping the world would turned upside down again. It's gratifying to come out on top of the rollercoaster of history, even if it doesn't necessarily last.
I see no harm in expressing gratitude and appreciation for the good times to your friends.
About Sunday 15 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
The other day Montagu confided in Pepys that he has doubts about the reliability of Capt. Roger Cuttance, but did not mention Lt. David Lambert.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Today's note that Gen. John Lambert is firing up the opposition to the monarchy makes me wonder if David is related to John, which coincides with notes in his biographies. In which case, why didn't Montagu mention Lambert?
Apparently Montagu wasn't worried enough about Cuttance to request his removal.
Good management move making Monck the "bad" guy on these personnel changes.
About Elections
San Diego Sarah • Link
There is a long discussion of the Spring 1660 elections for Weymouth and Dover -- Adm. Edward Montagu ran for both of them -- starting at
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Being unaware of this page, I posted info taken from the Constituencies site of the House of Commons website for Weymouth and Dover that year:
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
About Saturday 14 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"My Lord is chosen at Waymouth this morning; [IE Montagu was elected as an MP for Weymouth today] SEMI-COLON
"my Lord had his freedom brought him by Captain Tiddiman of the port of Dover, by which he is capable of being elected for them." [IE as a freeman of the city of Dover, Montagu can now stand in their election, which is what he did].
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
About Dover, Kent
San Diego Sarah • Link
Elections at Dover during the Diary times, according to the House of Commons website:
Throughout the period Dover, the largest of the Cinque Ports, displayed remarkable independence of the government interest.
In 1660 Edward Montagu was entrusted with the writ; but the gallant admiral’s return was by no means plain sailing. The jurats expressed delight at the honour intended for the borough, but could not conceal that ‘some less considerate persons may be somewhat pre-engaged’.
His chief rival was Arnold Braemes, a local gentleman who had been an active Cavalier, but eventually they seem to have agreed to join their interests.
The mayor, in a formal letter to Montagu, pointed out the urgency of government help for the repair of the pier, adding that no less than 52 families in the town were owed money by the Admiralty. With some assurance of payment, they would be ready and willing to carry out repairs to the fleet, then lying in the Downs.
It seems clear that there was a contest, but the names of the unsuccessful candidates are not known.
When Montagu was created Earl of Sandwich he wrote to the corporation in favour of his cousin George Montagu.
But on 29 June, 1660, a correspondent wrote to Samuel Pepys that ‘there was a great party made for Sir Francis Vincent’, lieutenant-governor of the castle, who had been recommended by the Duke of York. However, the mayor and alderman, fortified by a letter from the newly appointed lord lieutenant of Kent, ‘promised all to stand for Mr Montagu’. The Duke professed himself ‘unwilling to disoblige either in this business’.
Vincent and Montagu were both made freemen on the day of the election; the latter was returned, but the poll has not survived.
On 20 Mar. 1661 the corporation resolved that ‘if any freeman tries to make any party or parties among the freemen for the electing of mayor or Members of Parliament, he shall lose his freedom’.
It is probable, therefore, that the general election 6 weeks later, in which Vincent and George Montagu were returned, was uncontested, although Vincent alone was nominated by the Duke.
...
Author: Basil Duke Henning
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Masts
San Diego Sarah • Link
Rick Ansell, who seems to know about these things, posted in 2003:
The masts of large vessels of the time (and later) were in sections. Each one was parallel to the one below for a distance.
Generally, there were three sections, Lower, Top and Topgallent.
The Courses (Fore Course, Main Course and Mizzen) were attached to the lower masts.
The Topsails were attached to the Topmast and the Topgallent and Royal to the Topgallent mast.
When bad weather threatened the Topgallent mast would be struck (taken down) to reduce the unnecessary drag and preserve it from harm. It would be useless anyway, in high winds sail was reduced and the Topgallent and Royal were the weakest and most weakly supported sails.
When very severe weather threatened the Topmasts would be struck. Likewise, the Yards that supported the sails could be struck down on deck.
At anchor there was no need to use the sails so the masts and yards only served to give the wind something to push against, producing extra strain on the anchor which, if the force was enough, might drag (give way).
In amongst the dangerous banks of the Goodwins you definitely don't want a dragging anchor: once on a bank in high winds the ship could be beaten to pieces very rapidly.
And Alan Morel added
Re: ...lowering the masts...
If high winds are expected and the vessel is anchored, then the upper third portion of a mast (the topgallant) would be 'struck', or disconnected from the bottom two-thirds of the mast, then lowered to the deck to be lashed safely.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
About Tuesday 10 April 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Sounds like he is just coming home from exile, but he could be a player in the ongoing negotiations."
Yes, George Goring, 1st Earl of Norwich was returning from 10 years in exile. But it's also perfectly reasonable for us to assume he was carrying correspondence from others at the exiled court to ... you name them. It would have been helpful if Pepys had told us where he was going next, or what his plans were.
About Charles Boyle
San Diego Sarah • Link
You're right, Terry ... Charles Boyle's Parliamentary bio records:
b. 17 Nov. 1639, 2nd s. of Richard Boyle, 2nd Earl of Cork [I] and 1st Earl of Burlington (d. 15 Jan. 1698), by Lady Elizabeth Clifford, suo jure Baroness Clifford, da. and h. of Henry Clifford, 5th Earl of Cumberland.
educ. Christ Church, Oxf. 1654,
****** travelled abroad (Holland, France) Apr.-Aug. 1660. ******
m. (1) 2 May 1661, Lady Jane Seymour (d. 23 Nov. 1679), da. of William Seymour, and Duke of Somerset, 4s. 6da.;
m. (2) 26 Jan. 1688, Lady Arethusa Berkeley (d. 11 Feb. 1743), da. of George, 1st Earl of Berkeley, 1da.
summ. to Lords as Visct. Dungarvan 20 Feb. 1663;
styled Lord Clifford 20 Mar. 1664;
summ. to Lords in his father’s barony as Lord Clifford of Lanesborough 16 July, 1689.
It further specifies that "On the eve of the Restoration Clifford [as Charles Byle would later be known] brought some packets from England to the King, returning a few months later in the company of Sir John Reresby."
Since he wasn't elected to Parliament until 1669, they don't give us anything further about him relative to Pepys.
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
So Robert Boyle FRS was his uncle, as was the playwrite Roger Boyle, 1st Earl of Orrery.
About Saturday 17 March 1659/60
San Diego Sarah • Link
"I wonder where Autumnbreeze got the idea that Dorothea St.Michel was of Irish origin."
Turns out I owe Autumnbreeze an apology. Turns out Dorothea's father was probably Francis Kingsmill, and the Kingsmills were Anglo-Irish:
Pauline says about Elizabeth Pepys' religion:
"Her father (Alexandre de St. Michel) was born a French Catholic, but converted to the Protestant faith as a young professional soldier fighting in Germany. He married Dorothea, the daughter of Sir Francis Kingsmill, in Ireland." Quoting from Claire Tomalin, Samuel Pepys: The Unequaled Self.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
And Language Hat reminds us:
"Description of Elizabeth and the marriage" from Bryant's Pepys bio:
"He [PEPYS] had not long left Cambridge when he met his match. She was the daughter of a French Huguenot who had come over to England with Queen Henrietta Maria, lost his place at Court..., and married the daughter of an Anglo-Irish gentleman ..."
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
The Kingsmills were well-to-do and connected. Perhaps Dorothea was disinherited for marrying a tradesman? Her father, Francis, would have been a junior branch of the family, and would probably have had to make his way in life on his own.
Jeannine and the gang also discussed at length Dorothea and the Kingsmill family at
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…