language hat on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

"showed me five pieces":
i.e. five guineas; piece (OED):
Popularly applied to an English gold coin; orig. to the unite of James I, and afterwards to the sovereign, and guinea, as the one or other was the current coin. Hence half-piece. Obs.
The Unite was issued in 1604 as = 20 shillings; but was raised in 1612 to 22 shillings.
1616 B. JONSON Devil an Ass I. i. 5 I'll warrant you for halfe a piece. 1618 FEATLY Clavis Myst. xxxii. (1636) 426 All our crownes and soveraines, and pieces, and halfe pieces, and duckatts and double duckatts are currant but to the brim of the grave. 1659-60 PEPYS Diary 14 Mar., Here I got half-a-piece of a person of Mr. Wright's recommending to my Lord to be Preacher of the Speaker frigate. a1700 B. E. Dict. Cant. Crew, Job, a Guinea, Twenty Shillings, or a Piece.

vincent on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

"A motion was made for a reward for him, but it was quashed by Mr. Annesly, who, above most men, is engaged to my Lord’s and Mr. Crew’s families" (OH! well,well! You can count on family connections?)

"an anagram of name ?…." Infernally dark, abhorrent anus (see Annesly )

chip on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

Yesterday Montagu got right up the steps and for some reason, after chatting with his father-in-law, decided to wait until today to make his entrance. Could it be that this protestation by Annesly was a setup? And he did not go in yesterday as Annesly was not present? Why he would not want a public reward is beyond me.

helena murphy on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

Montague may realise that he has already been sufficiently rewarded by the King for his services. The only remaining honour would be a dukedom,but this would surely undermine General Monck's, whose contribution to Charles'restoration was far greater than his. Montague is highly intelligent and an adroit manoeuvrer, he knows that it does not do in the early days of a new regime to come out too rewarded either,especially when other players will shortly appear on the scene such as Prince Rupert, Charles' first cousin ,veteran of the civil war and commander of what remained of the royalist fleet in the 1650's which battled with Blake in the Mediterranean and in the Caribbean.
Charles created James Butler, Duke of Ormonde, for his consistent loyalty to the House of Stuart from the reign of Charles I to the Restoration and beyond. The Butlers came to Ireland in the 12th century in the train of Henry II and held vast estates and public office there from that time.The magnificent Butler castle is still standing today, dominating the town of Kilkenny and open to the public.

Colin Gravois on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

My wife and the girl and dog came home to-day.
We've all been ascribing various motives for Sam's "estrangement" from Elisabeth, but apparently all that bad-mouthing was for naught, or was it? Has she returned from a stay in the country? Or are things patched up now between them? Time will tell.

Colin Gravois on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

Helena's adroit analysis of Montague's relations with the House and the King.
Helena, can you throw some light on the quashing by Annesly of that eventual reward for Montague. His relunctance on apppearing in the House yesterday was apparently overcome today by the dangling of a reward (but what?), then only to see it taken away?

A. De Araujo on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

"I found a quantity of chocolate left for me" that must have been a real treat at the time!...

Paul Brewster on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

Yesterday and today ...
I think Helena's analysis of his failure/inability/reluctance to obtain monetary thanks is close to the mark. By the way, L&M say that SP is the only source for Annsley's role in this matter, "There apears to be no other notice of this motion."

A somewhat different but related set of motives might explain his failure/reluctance to appear in Parliament yesterday. L&M's footnote from yesterday says "Montagu was due to receive the thanks of the House ... but his visit was presumably postponed by the arrival of a message from the King asking the Common to speed the passage of the bill of indemnity and oblivion." This may have been a simple scheduling conflict but it

Barbara on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

Pepys' wife seems to have been staying with him at his father's following his return from sea. Yesterday she returned to the country (leaving him lonely for the night) and came back today with the maid and the dog. I don't have the feeling that anything was wrong between them. Later on in the diary it is very obvious when they have periods of discord.

Guy on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

I wonder what Murford's 'business' is...

When it was first mentioned over a beer on 16th it sounded like SP was steeling himself to do something perhaps a little underhand. Now Murford comes round to show him the money in order to convince him to do it. Is Sam being bought?

Glyn on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

Colin - I agree with Barbara that there's been no argument. She went for her things - see my comment accidentally posted for yesterday.

Glyn on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

Lady Pickering ... told me the story of her husband’s case and desired my assistance with my Lord, and did give me 5 pounds in silver.

This has been puzzling me - it's to do with the Act of Exemption that Nix was discussing yesterday.

Lord Pickering had been a notorious Parliamentarian who had supported both Oliver Cromwell and his son Richard and had held various important positions in the Government. He had even been regarded highly enough to be one of the Judges in the Trial of King Charles II, but had managed to avoid signing the Death Warrant.

Now he's been exempted from the general amnesty and has been sent out of London to his country estate, with very serious punishment to be decided at a later date.

When I first read this I thought it meant that a VIP who was a stranger (Lady P) was giving Sam a lot of money to get an interview with Montagu. But then I discovered that she is Montagu's sister - she can get to see him without going through Sam; and what could he say that she can't say for herself? It must have been humiliating to have to approach Pepys like this. And do strangers and even family members think that Pepys is so influential with Montagu that he is worth bribing?

POSSIBLE SPOILER
At any rate, it worked - Montagu intervened and had Pickering's name taken off the Act of Exemption. His only punishment was to be barred from holding public office. Perhaps he could even have come back from that after a few years, but he dies sometime in the 1660s.

Sorry for the length of this comment.

helena murphy on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

The Bill of Indemnity and Oblivion pardoned less important officials who sided with the parliamentarians, the rank and file so to speak. At the outbreak of the civil war Charles I lost the fleet to the Parliamentarians, therefore Charles II, an intelligent pragmatist,is eternally grateful to Montague for coming over to the Royalist side, thus he need never fear the blade. Personally, and I think correctly ,Montague still has to disassociate himself from the republican past and if it is politic to keep away from the House of Commons on certain occasions then so be it.

Jackie on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

This is a fine insight into politics.

Firstly Montagu - the King has his own, urgent (to him) agenda to get through Parliament. Montagu is well aware of his questionable past - he has ensured his own position will be very strong. By modestly ensuring that any business of getting Parliament to reward him further is dropped, he appears modest (appealing in those still fairly puritan times) and does the King a favour by clearing space for him in Parliament.

The sister issue is similar - if he is seen acting directly for her interests, that looks like corruption, but if somebody like Pepys was seen to be the one who persuaded him, then he looks like he's responding to public pressure. Montagu is clearly a very clever man.

Jackie

vincent on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

A good Politician always puts another head out there to see if it will get lopt off: and Monke and Montague were certainly adroite politicos; never be point man. Just look at their track record since Cromwell died:

vincent on 20 Jun 2003  •  Link

"Murford" a big time player Lining up the future contracts 17 c version of playing golf and loosing big bets:

Mary on 21 Jun 2003  •  Link

Murford's business.

Exactly, Glyn. Murford is a timber merchant, so he has every reason to cultivate Pepys' good will vis-a-vis possible future contracts for the navy.
Being "on the take" doesn't really come into the question; it was accepted that payment for advantage was a perfectly reasonable way to do business if one had no personal (e.g. family) strings to pull.

Glyn on 23 Jun 2003  •  Link

[Moved from yesterday's entry by Phil]
My wife and the girl and dog came home to-day.

This would be the "pretty black dog", really a puppy, that brother-in-law Balty gave them back in April.

I think Colin Gravois has got totally the wrong impression about what is happening here - I don't believe Elizabeth left after a quarrel and came back when she cooled down.

As I understand it (with guesswork): sometime last week Sam sent a message, perhaps by letter, to Elizabeth that he was coming home; and she travelled to London to be with him.

Yesterday, she went back to Huntsmore to collect her maidservant, her dog, and her household goods, furniture etc and managed to bring them all back in very quick time. Certainly much faster than it took to pack to go to Huntsmore in the first place.

Congratulations to Sam - he's picked a good wife - but isn't it time that they had more than a single servant (and that a mere girl) considering his new affluence?

Pauline on 23 Jun 2003  •  Link

[Moved here from yesterday's entry by Phil]

Glyn, I think you have it right.
But let's remember that most of the furniture is locked up in the dining room of their lodgings in Westminster. Moving the things she took with her back is sounding like a quick business, but I bet she and Jane will be in a flurry of cleaning, furniture moving, and resettling in the coming days.

Terry Foreman on 8 Jun 2013  •  Link

Today in Commons http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…

General Montague thanked.

Ordered, That the Thanks of this House be given to the Lord General Edward Mountague, one of the Generals at Sea, in the Name of themselves, and of all the Commons of England, for his great and eminent Services to his Majesty and the Kingdom.

And Mr. Speaker gave him the Thanks of this House accordingly; he standing in his Place:

My Lord, If you please to cast your Eyes about you, you may read, in our chearful Faces, our thankful Hearts; which do indeed express your Praises more than Ten thousand Tongues can possibly do it. God hath done you the Honour to be the Conveyancer of the greatest Blessing that ever this Nation received: You have landed our Sovereign upon the safest Shore, that ever English King set his Foot upon; the Hearts of his People.

The House have therefore ordered this eminent and transcendant Service to be recorded in their Journal, there to remain for your Honour, so long as the World endures. Indeed, no Measure of Thanks is proportionable to the Measure of your Merit, but the Thanks of this House: And therefore I am commanded, and I do, in the Name of this House, and in the Name of all those whom they represent, the Commons of England, give you their most hearty Thanks.

Chris Squire UK on 21 Jun 2013  •  Link

DNB opines:

. . Ultimately, the epitaph by his friend John Evelyn still provides one of the best summaries of the character of Edward Montagu, first earl of Sandwich:

My Lord Sandwich was prudent as well as valiant, and always governed his affairs with success, and little loss, he was for deliberation and reason … deplorable was the loss of one of the best accomplished persons, not only of this nation but of any other: he was learned in the Mathematics, in Music, in Sea affairs, in political … was of a sweet obliging temper; sober, chaste, infinitely ingenious and a true noble man, an ornament to the court, and his prince. (Evelyn, 3.616–19)

AndreaLouise Hanover on 14 Jun 2015  •  Link

Chocolate also a treat back then.

Terry Foreman on 30 Apr 2017  •  Link

"A motion was made for a reward for him, but it was quashed by Mr. Annesly, who, above most men, is engaged to my Lord’s and Mr. Crew’s familie

There appears to be no other notice of this motion [or its quashing]. (L&M note)

Terry Foreman on 30 Apr 2017  •  Link

"My Lord went at night with the King to Baynard’s Castle to supper"

The Earl of Pembroke (lessee of Bayard's Castle) was the host; the dukes of York and Gloucester wre among the other guests: Mercurius Politicus. 21 June, p. 400. https://www.cambridge.org/core/jo…

San Diego Sarah on 7 Jun 2020  •  Link

Gresham College hosts free lectures, and gave one on where Charles II lived during his exile. Part addressed how this affected Restoration Court style:

In 1660 the rewards went to those who had endured exile with Charles II. Most received places at Court, and incomes to match. This meant the people closest to the king had experienced Continental life, particularly Paris and the French Court. French taste was therefore the culture of the English ruling class and influenced all aspects of life.

Yes, there was French furniture and fashion at Court in the 1630s, especially in Queen Henrietta's apartments at Denmark House. During the Commonwealth and Interregnum Cromwell used that French furniture.

In 1660 Charles II immediately signaled a change in Court taste. The Court Upholsterer (responsible for seat furniture, beds and soft furnishings for royal houses) was John Baker, who had held the post for 40 years. Within weeks he was working with John Casbert, a French upholsterer. Casbert learned his trade in Louis XIII’s Paris.

In the first accounts, Casbert was paid for altering a crimson damask bed 'bought of a Frenchman'. The Princess Royal was also given a 'standing French bedstead'. These new beds were installed in French-style bedchambers (bedrooms with an elaborate alcove in which the bed was placed behind a rail). The king's bedchamber was the first to be arranged like this and had a parquet floor, the first time this French flooring method was used in England.

Along with bedchamber architecture and furniture came French etiquette:
Charles II introduced the morning lever, in which he dressed in public in the French royal manner, and an evening coucher, in which he undressed in public and went to bed.
Earlier Stuarts used the bedchamber as private space, but Charles II used it as a French Chambre de Parade, his principal audience chamber.

To maintain the setting of his Court in the French fashion, in 1660 Charles II started sending English artists to Paris to learn French Fashion.
Perhaps the most important of these trips was made by Sir Christopher Wren in 1669. Charles II wanted to rebuild the Tudor Whitehall Palace and sent Wren to see the Louvre and the Palais Royal.

Other royal servants sent to France to learn French ways included:
the composer Humfrey Pelham, sent to learn composition;
Thomas Betterton, who went several times to consult on theater construction and play writing;
and John Banister, who went to learn how to compose musicals.

Charles II spent his 20's at the French Court, and his tastes were formed there. Charles was not following the tastes of Louis XIV and copying Versailles (Versailles was a small hunting lodge in the 1650s). Charles’ taste was moulded by Richelieu, Mazarin and Louis XIII, and remained with him for his whole life.

For more
https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lecture…

San Diego Sarah on 22 Apr 2023  •  Link

"Called on betimes by Murford, who showed me five pieces to get a business done for him and I am resolved to do it."

Murford SHOWED him 5 -- he did not GIVE Pepys 5 pieces. That was an incentive, not a bribe.
Pepys doesn't know many timber merchants, so should he need some, what reason would he have not to give Murford the deal? Sounds like a no-brainer to me. Then he will get his gratuity.

I remember my uncle doing the same thing when he took the family to a restaurant before going to the theater. He put a fiver on the table before asking the waiter if he could get us fed and out of the restaurant in 40 minutes? (At my first job I earned 5/. a week, so this was a sizeable incentive.) Nothing was said, you understand.

Can anyone tell me the difference between being a timber merchant and being a lumbar merchant?

MartinVT on 18 Jun 2023  •  Link

"Can anyone tell me the difference between being a timber merchant and being a lumber merchant?"

In the U.S. and Canada:
Timber=wood still standing in a forest, or cut down into logs but not anything smaller.
Lumber=wood cut into a variety of dimensions, like boards, planks, posts and beams, ready to be used to build things.

But apparently in the UK and elsewhere outside of North America, lumber is not used in relation to wood, and timber applies to dimensioned wood as well as logs.
More here on timber: https://www.etymonline.com/word/t…
More here on lumber: https://www.etymonline.com/search…

San Diego Sarah on 18 Jun 2023  •  Link

Thanks, MartinVT. Food for thought there. In a time when there was lots of natural forest to cut down in North America, timber was king.

The Elizabethans had clear cut much of the British Isles, so lumber would be king for the Stuarts locally -- but they didn't call it lumber.

I'm trying to imagine a way to transport masts across the Atlantic, which they did as the Baltic deliveries were not guaranteed because of frequent wars and lots of other customers; Massachusetts and Rhode Island had exactly what the Navy needed. Tow them? Strap them to the deck?

MartinVT on 19 Jun 2023  •  Link

"Strap them to the deck?"

"transported on freight ships" seems to be the answer. Probably on deck as they would not fit down below. Towing would be dangerous.
https://www.concordmonitor.com/co….

Most masts were not made of single trees the whole length. Those that were were called pole-masts; masts made by joining several lengths of timber together were called made-masts. Made-masts were actually stronger than pole-masts. More than you might want to know (but important stuff for Sam to know, later on) is here (published 1794): https://www.hnsa.org/manuals-docu…
Included there is this bit: "MASTS from America are mostly trimmed in the country nearly to their sizes..." Which makes sense, so you would not transport the raw timber, just the completed lengths of masts.

San Diego Sarah on 19 Jun 2023  •  Link

"... masts made by joining several lengths of timber together were called made-masts. Made-masts were actually stronger than pole-masts."

I would never have guessed that, MartinVT. And it certainly solves the challenge of moving huge and heavy lengths of solid oak between continents.

Thanks!

Terry Foreman on 20 Jun 2023  •  Link

Butler House, Kilkenny

Butler House was built so that it was completed by 1786 as the Dower house for Kilkenny Castle. It was built by Walter Butler, 16th Earl of Ormonde for his wife to live in when their son John Butler, 17th Earl of Ormonde inherited the title.[1][2][3] The first occupant was Lady Eleanor Butler, though it isn't certain if she and her husband moved in before his death.[4] Her daughter Eleanor was one of the Ladies of Llangollen.[5]

James Butler, 1st Marquess of Ormonde lived in the house while he was doing significant reconstruction work on the Castle 1831. A local cholera epidemic in 1832 meant that the family used the house as the site of a soup kitchen. The house was substantially extended about this time as well.[6][7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/But…

Sam Ursu on 20 Jun 2023  •  Link

For anyone curious about this chocolate that Pepys found upon his return:

Certainly, it was not what people today mean by "chocolate," i.e. some kind of manufactured confectionary sweetened with sugar that's ready to eat. Rather, Pepys is referring to a kind of "cake" wrapped in cloth, made from an oily paste of roasted cacao beans shipped over from the Americas.

The first chocolate house (analogous to a coffeehouse) opened in London in 1657 (so three years before this diary entry), and specialized in turning that chocolate paste into a sugar-sweetened (and possibly also flavored with things like vanilla or aniseed) drink that was considered a luxurious beverage and/or had "medicinal" properties. Some chocolate houses even mixed it with ale.

Note: The indigenous cultures in the Americas drank a similar beverage (without ale, of course), but always unsweetened. The English (and Europeans in general) found it far too bitter, so pretty much always dosed it with sugar.

The chocolate (drink) consumed in Pepys' time would've been a lot stronger and less mellow/smooth tasting than a modern mug of hot chocolate. 17th century chocolate was drunk from a small bowl with no handles, lifted to the mouth with both hands.

To make the (chocolate) drink, one took a pinch of the chocolate paste and whisked it into hot water. But because the paste was quite oily, it took a lot of continuous whisking at the right water temperature until it would fully blend. This was a laborious technique to get right, though. Apparently, even the scientist Robert Hooke had a hard time making it (correctly) at home.

Nonetheless, this chocolate (drink) was quite posh and trendy during this era, and would definitely be something you'd serve to high-status guests to impress them (the paste itself also seems to have been a prestige gift, as it was quite expensive).

San Diego Sarah on 20 Jun 2023  •  Link

Kilkenny Castle -- After the Restoration, Kilkenny Castle and most of the lands that had been confiscated by Cromwell from the Butler family were restored to the new Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, James Butler, Duke of Ormonde. He set about changing the castle from a medieval fortress to a French-style chateau.

If Dublin Castle was Ireland's Whitehall, then Kilkenny was their Hampton Court.

It’s easy to spot the influence of Cromwell – he blew up one entire side of the castle, leaving it a 3-sided fortress.

For more history and pictures of this medieval masterpiece (somewhat messed up by the Victorians!) -- see
https://www.exploring-castles.com…

Kilkenny Castle is a beautiful day trip from Dublin as Kilkenny is in the Wicklow mountains. Read more about the Kilkenny City, Wicklow Park, and Glendalough Tour from Dublin: https://www.viator.com/tours/Dubl…