Monday 17 September 1660
Office very early about casting up the debts of those twenty-five ships which are to be paid off, which we are to present to the Committee of Parliament.
I did give my wife 15l. this morning to go to buy mourning things for her and me, which she did. Dined at home and Mr. Moore with me, and afterwards to Whitehall to Mr. Dalton and drank in the Cellar, where Mr. Vanly according to appointment was.
Thence forth to see the Prince de Ligne, Spanish Embassador, come in to his audience, which was done in very great state.
That being done, Dalton, Vanly, Scrivener and some friends of theirs and I to the Axe, and signed and sealed our writings, and hence to the Wine cellar again, where I received 41l. for my interest in my house, out of which I paid my Landlord to Michaelmas next, and so all is even between him and me, and I freed of my poor little house. Home by link with my money under my arm. So to bed after I had looked over the things my wife had bought to-day, with which being not very well pleased, they costing too much, I went to bed in a discontent.
Nothing yet from sea, where my Lord and the Princess are.
35 Annotations
First Reading
Paul Brewster • Link
which we are to present to the Comittee of parliament tomorrow.
L&M add the word "tomorrow" and the following footnote: "The committee continued to sit during the parliamentary adjournment (13 September - 6 November)."
Paul Brewster • Link
which was done in very great State
L&M add the footnote: "The audience was in the Banqueting House, Whitehall, and the procession consisted of 50 coaches. ... The cavalcade consisted of '16 ritch coaches, one especially comparable to His Majesties, drawne with sixteen faire blacke horses' (Mundy). This was the only audience de Ligne was given and it was said the he went away sad to think he was not to be allowed to repeat the splendid occasion." L&M don't explain the difference in the count of coaches.
Paul Brewster • Link
Wheatley is certainly busy with his grammatical corrections in this entry
Per L&M:
"to buy mourning things for her and I"
"so all is even between him and I"
"where my Lord and the Princesse is"
Paul Brewster • Link
Nothing yet from sea, where my Lord and the Princess is.
L&M: "They did not set sail from Holland until the 20/30th." I was unfamiliar with the 20/30th notation until I remembered that Holland had accepted the Gregorian changes ahead of England and thus the 10 day difference. I guess they sailed from Holland three days from now on the 20th (in England) or 30th (in Holland) and arrived before they left. I don't think the Concorde could rival this form of time travel.
Pauline • Link
"Home by link with my money under my arm."
I like this--a certain jauntiness; but I suppose it means he clinched his money under his arm against pickpockets.
Glyn • Link
Did they have pickpockets at this time - I think they were "cutpurses". Did they have pockets even?
Bullus Hutton • Link
to buy mourning things for her and me,
Ok, who is it we're buying these funereal weeds for? Henry the King's bro, or Sam's sainted mum, or am I missing some body?
Is the reason he sups twice in the same cellar instead of usual upscale venues somehow guilt-related?
As for going home with money under arm, that's as good as anything - when walking around New York I used to put my money in my shoe, until my chum told me that's the first place muggers look.
helena murphy • Link
Pepys and his wife now have new standards to adhere to and it is necessary to have appropriate attire as the occasion demands, therefore the mourning clothes form part of their general wardrobe along with the more elegant garments. The mortality rate is high and as an up and coming bureaucrat living in London one is expected to conform to the correct dress code. It is to be noted that Pepys goes to Whitehall Garden , probably rigged out in black where hopefully he caught the eye of the king in his purple. The practical Pepys is right to comment on the cost as it is the appropriate shade which matters.
Pauline • Link
mourning things
I wonder what these "things" are. Sam has visited his father Saturday and "bespoke mourning." I thought he had ordered a suit then. What now? Wonder what the specific trappings are.
Paul Brewster • Link
afterwards to White-hall ... and drank in the Seller ...then to the Wine Seller again
I'm not sure that the wine cellar wasn't "upscale" or anything of the kind. My guess is that SP may be referring to a place that the L&M Companion identifies as a Wine Cellar in the entry on Whitehall Palace. They describe it as "part of Woolsey's original palace; under the Guard Chamber. It was not wholly destroyed by the fire of 1698 and still survives. The King's or Privy cellar was separate." I believe this may be one and the same as Wine Cellar in the Old War Office Building which according to a web site on the history of the building was once used as "a luncheon club for Ministry of Transport staff". On the web site the Wine Cellar is labelled as "King Henry VIII's Wine Cellar" and is described as "the only substantial part of the old "Whitehall Palace" that remained after the disastrous fire of 1698 and a fine example of a Tudor brick-vaulted roof some 70 feet long and 30 feet wide.” http://www.mod.uk/aboutus/history…
Nix • Link
"with my money under my arm" --
I don’t think he was worried about pickpockets -- home “by link” means it was nighttime, when there would not have been crowds to facilitate pickpockets. He’s concerned about robbers holding him up in a dark, empty street. I’d guess that “Under my arm” probably means stuffed as far as he could get it up the sleeve of his coat.
martha wishart • Link
Pockets were not sewn into garments. Rather, they were worn on a string around the waist. Clothes had slits in them through which you could reach to put your hand into your pocket.
Jenny Doughty • Link
Re pockets being worn on a string around the waist - hence the children's nursery rhyme, which makes no sense if you think of modern pockets:
Lucy Locket lost her pocket,
Kitty Fisher found it.
Not a penny was there in it
But a ribbon round it.
Mary • Link
Pockets on strings
I've also heard it stated that women often wore these pockets beneath their skirts, which must have meant that they would have accessed them through a placket in one of the skirt's seams.
Glyn • Link
Has this anything to do with the phrase "holding the purse strings"?
tamara • Link
purse strings
yes, that's exactly where it comes from
vincent • Link
"pockets" were not attached, they were what we call a purse today. A story I read recently about a couple that went by coach at this period of time . When they got home, the husband asked for some money, because she kept the money in her pocket under her skirts. She says the pocket has gone, He says "how come"?. Well she says "I felt this hand and took no notice because I thought it was after my honor not my money". He says yer should have known better, Yer too old for that". Enough said.
Second Reading
Bill • Link
POCKET. The small bag inserted into the cloathes.
---A Dictionary of the English Language. Samuel Johnson, 1768.
Sasha Clarkson • Link
"It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good"
It looks as though the unfortunate death of Prince Henry is going to give a "fiscal boost" to certain parts of the economy!
Adam • Link
It must be a strange time to live in. High infant mortality, people dropping like flies from smallpox and common illnesses. Sam probably had to wear those mourning clothes a lot.
Terry Foreman • Link
""pockets" were not attached, they were what we call a purse today. " vincent posts. This is confirmed by the Wikipedia page on Pickpocketing in the 17th century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pic… that refers to the lyrics of ballads of the time about cut-purses: http://ebba.english.ucsb.edu/ball…
San Diego Sarah • Link
Vincent has added John Evelyn's more informative notes about attending the parade for the new Spanish Ambassador, Claude Lamoral, Prince de Ligne.
He was sent as the representative of the Spanish King to the Court of St. James's. His was the first foreign recognition of Charles II and the newly restored English monarchy.
The previous array of envoys, representatives and Ambassadors were left overs from the old regime, who made courtesy visits. The Prince de Ligne was the real thing representing the new regime.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
John Evelyn's Diary – he and Mary Browne Evelyn live at Saye's Court, Deptford.
http://brittlebooks.library.illin…
Third Reading
San Diego Sarah • Link
This may surprise you. On this day in Paris, St. Vincent de Paul died:
“On Sunday, September 16/26, 1660 Fr. Vincent de Paul was taken to the chapel to assist Mass and receive Holy Communion. In the afternoon he was completely lucid when he received the Anointing of the Sick.
“In the morning Vincent de Paul gave his final blessing to the priests of the Mission, the Daughters of Charity, the abandoned children, and all the poor.
“Fr. Vincent de Paul died on September 17/27, shortly before 4:00 AM, the time at which he used to wake up to serve God and the poor.
“The work of Vincent de Paul’s Seminarists was taken up by one of his most attentive disciples, Fr. Jean-Jaques Olier (born in 1608) and attached to the Parisian church of St. Sulpice in 1642.”
For St. Vincent’s bio, see
http://www.piercedhearts.org/theo…
Remember Fr. Jean-Jaques Olier’s name:
“When Charles II was at Paris, after the flight from the second battle of Worcester, he received instruction in religion from Fr. Jean-Jacques Olier, the celebrated founder of the seminary of St. Sulpice. His conferences were no secret, for Olier informed his friends of his hopes, and entreated their prayers. ... Charles wrote from Paris to the Pope to ask for assistance in recovering his dominions. Pope Innocent would have been satisfied, under the circumstances, with a private abjuration; but this was refused, and the king could not even obtain an answer to his application.[11]
11 ↑ Vie de M. Olier, ii. 489, from the French Archives.
“But although Charles II was not received into the Church, he had advanced so far in his opinions that he might, as John Thurloe affirmed, in his communications with the Spanish Government have declared himself in private to them to be a Catholic.[12]
12 ↑ Carte, ii. 102.
“Neither France nor Spain had any inducement to publish what would diminish the chances of monarchy in England, and strengthen a Government they feared and hated.
“The story that James Butler, Earl of Ormonde discovered Charles II on his knees hearing mass in a church at Brussels comes to us through two independent channels, Carte and Echard.
San Diego Sarah • Link
PART 2
“The latter supposes the ceremony of abjuration to have occurred when Charles II was at Fuentarabia, at the time of the Treaty of the Pyrenees. There is much reason in a remark which is made by Welwood: "The truth is, Charles II was neither bigot enough to any religion, nor loved his ease so little, as to embark in a business that must at least have disturbed his quiet, if not hazarded his crown."[13]
13 ↑ Memoirs, p. 131. https://books.google.com/books?id…
Abbe Ludovick Stuart, Lord Aubigny, to whom Bishop Gilbert Burnet attributes the conversion of Charles II, appeared at Whitehall immediately after the Restoration.
See:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Hi…
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
The game's afoot ...
San Diego Sarah • Link
Pockets -- the first of many discussions about pockets.
The best article I've found on the subject has great pictures of people going back to the 15th century with things that look just like patch pockets on their vests and leggings. Men and women.
And sailors on Henry VIII's Mary Rose appear to have pockets in their recovered clothing -- they might be decorate, but why?
Other people did use pocket bags with strings.
There's even speculation about Henry VIII's famous codpiece being a pocket -- but I hope that's not true! Now I can't get the image of him fumbling around while trying to get his handkerchief out to blow his nose. Oh dear.
Hands Deep in History: Pockets in Men and Women's Dress in Western Europe, c. 1480–1630
By Rebecca Unsworth – Edinburgh University Press
https://www.euppublishing.com/doi…
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Dined at home and Mr. Moore with me"
I bet they discussed "... I met with Dr. Castles, who chidd me for some errors in our Privy-Seal business; among the rest, for letting the fees of the six judges pass unpaid, which I know not what to say to, till I speak to Mr. Moore. I was much troubled, for fear of being forced to pay the money myself."
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
So what was the outcome, Pepys?
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... I had looked over the things my wife had bought today, with which being not very well pleased, they costing too much ..."
What did you expect, Pepys? All the courtiers are suddenly buying the same things all at the same time. That's what happens -- it's called the law of supply and demand.
Plus you've ordered a new suit, so what are these items: ribbons, or hat adornments or shoe buckles or ...?
San Diego Sarah • Link
CORRECTION:
"Vincent has added John Evelyn's more informative notes about attending the parade for the new Spanish Ambassador, Claude Lamoral, Prince de Ligne.
"He was sent as the representative of the Spanish King to the Court of St. James's."
✹ Emilio on 19 Feb 2004 :
This is the ambassador for the Spanish Netherlands in 1660.
per Wheatley (Braybrooke): "Charles Lamoral, Prince de Ligne, had commanded the cavalry in the Low Countries, was afterwards Viceroy of Sicily and Governor of Milan. He died at Madrid in 1679. He had married, by dispensation, his cousin Maria Clara of Nassau, widow of his brother Albert Henry, who had died without issue."
The Spanish occupied half of the Netherlands in 1660, and the back-and-forth with the Dutch Republic and the French trying to kick out the Spanish will continue for years. So the Prince de Ligne was probably sent with the approval of the Spanish King. But to be crystal clear, he does NOT represent Spain.
In April, 1660, the Marquis of Caracena of the Spanish Netherlands tried to coax Charles II away from the Dutch Republic to Antwerp so they could stop him from sailing to England and the Restoration.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
[R.H.=Royal Highness=James, Duke of York
H.M.=His Majesty=Charles II]
Therefore, the Prince de Ligne can prance all he likes with his coaches and matching horses -- Charles II knows the Spanish Netherlands (and therefore Spain} wish him no good.
Bring on the Portuguese Princess, and where is Gen. Frederic Armand Mainhardt, Comte de Schomberg when you need him? -- Stay tuned!!!
Tonyel • Link
"... I had looked over the things my wife had bought today, with which being not very well pleased, they costing too much ..."
The modern euphemism is "Dynamic Pricing" - the greater the demand, the higher the price.
Louise Hudson • Link
I remember when was a child nuns wore voluminous black habits. They had something inside that they often stuck their hand into. It fascinated me at the time. I suspect they wore some kind of detached pocket inside their habits like those described here.
San Diego Sarah • Link
The more I read about Amb. Claude Lamoral, 3rd Prince of Ligne, I suspect this reception was another reason James, Duke of York wanted to be out of town at this time. Thank you, Princess Mary, for giving him a decent excuse.
Of course, manners and protocol would dictate everybody's actions that day, so no observor would know of any discomfort felt by anyone.
Stephane Chenard • Link
De Ligne did not represent Spain? Yes, he does. Venetian ambassador Mocenigo, our agent on the diplomatic circuit, has unambiguously reported on this since July and on August 20 (new style) relayed that "the Prince de Ligne, who is preparing his equipage in France to come here as ambassador extraordinary of the Catholic [the king of Spain], is said to have received ample instructions from Madrid for treating for peace with England".
So Ligne brings quite a few important tidings from Madrid to Charles, on Dunkirk and Jamaica and peace in general, and in fact he already had an audience a few days ago. But OK, as Ambassador Extraordinary he won't stay. A more humdrum "ambassador in ordinary" will do that: Charles baron de Watteville (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha…) who hails from the still-Spanish, soon-to-be-conquered-by-Louis-XIV province of Franche Comté. For now, Mocenigo says (at https://www.british-history.ac.uk…) that Watteville follows incognito, which may be for the better as our astrologer says his career in London isn't going to be too brilliant.
Why would York avoid de Ligne? Oh, that unpleasantness in Calais last year, when the lieutenant governor sent soldiers to hunt him down in seedy taverns and backstreets? (Story at https://archive.org/stream/memoir…, pages 282-283). Or those 600,000 florins (counted at https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…) that Spain, through Flemish governor Caracena and York, promised Charles and apparently never paid? Or anything in York's Spanish military career? He doesn't seem to have come across Ligne too much, and while York starred in important battles on his side and territory the marquis may not have paid attention to such mercenary riffraff, or think much of York's toying with and dismissing Spain's offer of making him an admiral. But, at the levels where they both gravitate now, surely that's all in the past?
Further avoidance isn't possible anyway. The prince de Ligne is in London for a while, and York's karma seems to work against it: on this day Capt. John Coppin of the Centurion, updating Sam on my lord's progress, says he "thinks the wind has forced the ships with the Duke of York up into the King's Channel", while Capt. Country of the Greyhound reports that ships returning from Denmark "were separated in a storm" (State Papers). On October 1 (new style) ambassador Mocenigo will report that, sometime today or tomorrow (if we got our new style/old style conversion right) a "fierce gale" is/will likewise be driving poor York away from Holland and "to the extremities of this kingdom", and that by next Wednesday morning he will have given up on fetching sis, landed in England, found out about Gloucester, and will be hurrying back to London, the burial and the inevitable prince de Ligne.
San Diego Sarah • Link
Thanks Stephane. Fascinating stuff when you get it all together like that.
Stephane Chenard • Link
Mocenigo, in the same dispatch, says his own mourning outfit cost him £85; but he's got to keep up with the Ligneses, and maybe it's even better satin than Sam's.
'Nother thing: That L&M reference to "Mundy" is evidently from volume 5 of The Travels of Peter Mundy, a phantastickall Relation by one of the great travellers of the Age, who's in England right now. Alas, only volumes 1 through 4 seem to be available online (at https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/In…, https://fr.scribd.com/document/81… and https://archive.org/search?query=… among other sources, if anyone is interested), and while they're fascinating they all pre-date our period quite a bit. We'll buy his/her morning draught to anyone who can find a link to volume 5.
San Diego Sarah • Link
Back to pockets for a minute:
"The Renaissance was a time of great art, innovation, and exploration throughout Europe, and it’s during this era that the sewn-in pocket started to appear. The earliest true pockets were parts of men’s trunk hose — the poofy short breeches that you see in old portraits of royals and nobles — which became popular during the 16th century. The pockets hid themselves well among the folds, although sometimes they’re visible in paintings. The extra space left plenty of room for storing necessary objects, particularly pocket watches. These pockets could be quite luxurious; one example of voluminous trunk hose from the early 17th century had leather pockets lined with yellow and blue silk.
"Eventually, sewn-in pockets were also added to men’s coats, jackets, waistcoats, and breeches, for both nobles and commoners. From that point forward, menswear typically included pockets. For women’s clothing, however, the path was not quite as straight.
"In the mid-17th century, women had their own pocket revolution. Rather than wearing sewn-in pockets that would have to be emptied when changing into new clothes, many women started using tie-on pockets, which were detachable pouches that tied around the waist underneath skirts. Dresses would come with slits in them designed for reaching these modular pockets. Tie-on pockets were typically large — often more than 15 inches long and 10 inches wide — but they disappeared easily under the full skirts and petticoats of the era. They could be highly personalized, handmade, adorned with embroidery, made with extra interior pockets, and were often given as gifts. These pockets offered a space that women had complete control over. They could carry cash and valuables nested inside, and sleep with them under their pillows.
"While women from all walks of life wore tie-on pockets, they were especially useful for working women who needed to carry keys and supplies, as well as people living in cramped conditions. Upper-class women carried large quantities of precious items such as snuff boxes, telescopes, almanacs, and purses. Sentimental items such as small portraits frequently found their way into tie-on pockets.
"With the extra storage space also came a large capacity for crime; in one case, a woman made off with 2 live ducks stashed inside her pockets.
"Tie-on pockets stayed in use until the late 19th century — with a little break in the early 1800s when dresses briefly got less voluminous — even after handbags came into fashion. By the mid-19th century, some dresses even had small sewn-in pockets, although they were often impractical.
"... Pockets are no longer unusual in women’s fashion, but there are still significant differences in size between men’s and women’s pockets; women’s jeans, for example, are still 48% shorter on average than men’s."
More at https://historyfacts.com/arts-cul…