Thursday 4 October 1660

This morning I was busy looking over papers at the office all alone, and being visited by Lieut. Lambert of the Charles (to whom I was formerly much beholden), I took him along with me to a little alehouse hard by our office, whither my cozen Thomas Pepys the turner had sent for me to show me two gentlemen that had a great desire to be known to me, one his name is Pepys, of our family, but one that I never heard of before, and the other a younger son of Sir Tho. Bendishes, and so we all called cozens.

After sitting awhile and drinking, my two new cozens, myself, and Lieut. Lambert went by water to Whitehall, and from thence I and Lieut. Lambert to Westminster Abbey, where we saw Dr. Frewen translated to the Archbishoprick of York.

Here I saw the Bishops of Winchester, Bangor, Rochester, Bath and Wells, and Salisbury, all in their habits, in King Henry Seventh’s chappell. But, Lord! at their going out, how people did most of them look upon them as strange creatures, and few with any kind of love or respect.

From thence at 2 to my Lord’s, where we took Mr. Sheply and Wm. Howe to the Raindeer, and had some oysters, which were very good, the first I have eat this year. So back to my Lord’s to dinner, and after dinner Lieut. Lambert and I did look upon my Lord’s model, and he told me many things in a ship that I desired to understand.

From thence by water I (leaving Lieut. Lambert at Blackfriars) went home, and there by promise met with Robert Shaw and Jack Spicer, who came to see me, and by the way I met upon Tower Hill with Mr. Pierce the surgeon and his wife, and took them home and did give them good wine, ale, and anchovies, and staid them till night, and so adieu.

Then to look upon my painters that are now at work in my house. At night to bed.

20 Annotations

First Reading

David A. Smith  •  Link

"he told me many things in a ship that I desired to understand"
I love Sam's intellectual curiosity and his unrelenting observation ("look upon them as strange creatures, and few with any kind of love or respect"). Both traits make him an admirable tour guide to the past.

john lauer  •  Link

Cozen Thomas P., the turner (of wood on a lathe?),
owned a 'hardware shop', and his brother was a joiner; so they were carpenters with special skills and tools, we presume.

Dave Bell  •  Link

The wood-turning methods of the time could seem quite primitive, but there are people who still practice the old-style crafts. Most wood turning was done with a quite simple machine, using a treadle connected to a pole of springy wood by a cord. The cord went about the piece of wood being worked, and as the treadle was worked it turned first one way and then the other.

This is something that can be set up in the forest, but I've seen them being used, and able to turn such things as chair legs and the posts used for banisters.

Quite what cousin Thomas did, I've no idea, but it's quite possible that he had learnt the trade before moving up to own a shop. On the other hand, he could still be working a lathe -- there wasn't the same divide between worker and management as developed a century later.

E  •  Link

In places where most people work with their hands, most people can do basic carpentry -- a carpenter is a skilled craftsman, and pulls in a superior income for doing a superior job. He is a big man in the community. (It always amuses me when people refer to Jesus' father as being "only" a carpenter. It makes sense that Jesus' parents could afford an education for him).

A similar argument would apply to the tailors of the Pepys family -- basic sewing could be done in all households, fancy prices were paid for fancy work.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

From thence we two to my Lord's
L&M replace "at 2" with "we two"

Paul Brewster  •  Link

did look upon my Lord's Modell
L&M: “A ship model.” Apparently we’ll here later that SP collected them as well.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

Bishops of Winchester, Bangor, Rochester, Bath and Wells, and Salisbury
According to L&M:
Winchester: Brian Duppa [He of the cold sermon http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… ], recently translated from Salisbury;
Bangor: William Roberts;
Rochester: John Warner;
Bath and Wells: William Pierce;
Salisbury: Humphrey Henchman [Interesting name for a Restoration Bishop], bishop-designate not consecated until 28 October.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

Sir Tho. Bendishes
L&M: "Sir Thomas Bendish, until 1660 ambassador at Constantinople; his aunt had married Pepys's great-uncle, John Pepys of Cottenham. He had five sons.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

how people did most of them look upon them as strange Creatures, and few with any kind of love or Respect
yet another glimpse into SP's religious core

JWB  •  Link

"But Lord!..."
This taken with his "Humour" comment gives us insight into Pepys' politics, not his religion. I'm reminded of Pres. Nixon,upon the signing of the Paris Peace Accords, stepping out on the town and at the end of the night wondering to a reporter where all the people were and why they weren't celebrating.

vincent  •  Link

"some brawn dus have good brains too"
They do not used them so cunningly.
The adage Do(the Pro Testant work ethick) If can't do then teach if not preach you can always leach? money and effort do not equate.Nor does satisfaction of good clean hard days work equate with money or brains. As they say? Hard physical work never Kills, its Stress that does??

Lisa Lillie  •  Link

Additional information concerning Sir. Tho. Bendish-

Knight and Second Baronet of Steeple Bumpstead
Was incarcerated in the Tower in 1642 for writing a pamphlet which denounced the recent actions of Parliament

Bendish was appointed to the ambassadorship in 1647, replacing Sir Sackvile Crow. The son in question was probably John, Bendish's eldest surviving son.

Thomas Bendish also kept a journal which I believe is now housed in the ERO. Other substantial documents pertaining to the Bendish family are kept at the James Ford Bell Library at the University of Minnesota.

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Lisa Lillie, thanks for posting information about the locations of sources. I can well imagine that being a help for genealogical research.

Third Reading

MartinVT  •  Link

"We two," the L&M version as noted above, makes a lot more sense than "at 2." If it was 2 p.m. already, then a detour to the Raindeer for oysters, that would mean dinner at 3 p.m., not likely.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"I and Lieut. Lambert to Westminster Abbey, where we saw Dr. Frewen translated to the Archbishoprick of York."

Pepys' academic interest in the Church of England continues. Last Sunday, he went to "see" Vespers at Westminster Abbey. Today, he goes to see 5 Bishops in their "habits" translate another bishop into an Archbishop.
The Church as theater, or is he trying to understand this new theology?

"But, Lord! at their going out, how people did most of them look upon them as strange creatures, and few with any kind of love or respect."
So Pepys was far from alone. Were these on-lookers poor people sheltering from whatever mother nature is doing outside, or people like Pepys, curious about this strange new regime?
Bishops had such a bad reputation, these men are going to have to do good deeds for a long time to regain the love of the people. Is that even possible, or has Henry VIII's Reformation gone beyond Anglicanism for ever?

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"... went home, and there by promise met with Robert Shaw and Jack Spicer, who came to see me, and by the way I met upon Tower Hill with Mr. Pierce the surgeon and his wife, and took them home and did give them good wine, ale, and anchovies, and staid them till night, and so adieu.

"Then to look upon my painters that are now at work in my house."

The Pepys by arrangement and spontaneously had 4 people over for supper while the painters are still in the house? How did they do that? Elizabeth, Jane and Wayneman must have been moving furniture and cleaning all day to get that organized.

And Pepys? He spent the day hobnobbing with relatives and friends, drinking and eating at pubs, and watching an unusual service at Westminster Abbey.
I don't blame him for staying out of the way, but adding to the chaos is a bit much.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

I base the above on
L&M: "William Brewer's bills ... for 'divers painted workes' at the Navy Office and at several lodgings there including Pepys', ... amount to over £50. Pepys’ house was clear of the painters by Christmas Day.”

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"But, Lord! at their going out, how people did most of them look upon them as strange creatures, and few with any kind of love or respect."

This is confirmed by the Catholic Francesco Giavarina, Venetian Resident in England, to the Doge and Senate.
Oct. 15. 1660 N.S. -- 5 Oct. O.S.
Senato, Secreta.
Dispacci, Inghilterra.
Venetian Archives

"The Presbyterians who have always been fatal to this country, as everyone knows, cannot bear to see the episcopal dogmas of the time of Queen Elizabeth set up again, and the doctrine of Calvin lost. They mutter and grumble and if they had greater vigor they would undoubtedly raise their heads to kindle internal fires in this country again; but being much weakened, although powerful in numbers, and without consideration among the people, who remember the disasters they brought on the country, they are well aware that they are in no condition to kick against the existing authority, which is gradually becoming more and more formidable."

See
Citation: BHO Chicago MLA
'Venice: October 1660', in Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 32, 1659-1661, ed. Allen B Hinds (London, 1931), pp. 199-211. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"Here I saw the Bishops of Winchester, Bangor, Rochester, Bath and Wells, and Salisbury, all in their habits, in King Henry Seventh’s chappell. But, Lord! at their going out, how people did most of them look upon them as strange creatures, and few with any kind of love or respect."

Understandably -- for 9 months the English people had been led to believe the use of surpluses and other Church of England traditions would not happen quickly.

On September 10, 1660, an Act had been passed mandating the use of the surplus and many other things. Pepys had never seen one before, and so called it a habit, I suppose it took a few weeks to get them made.

For the behind the scenes manipulations, see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…

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