Wednesday 24 October 1660

I lay and slept long to-day. Office day. I took occasion to be angry with my wife before I rose about her putting up of half a crown of mine in a paper box, which she had forgot where she had lain it. But we were friends again as we are always. Then I rose to Jack Cole, who came to see me. Then to the office, so home to dinner, where I found Captain Murford, who did put 3l. into my hands for a friendship I had done him, but I would not take it, but bade him keep it till he has enough to buy my wife a necklace.

This afternoon people at work in my house to make a light in my yard into my cellar.

To White Hall, in my way met with Mr. Moore, who went back with me.

He tells me, among other things, that the Duke of York is now sorry for his lying with my Lord Chancellor’s daughter, who is now brought to bed of a boy.

From Whitehall to Mr. De Cretz, who I found about my Lord’s picture. From thence to Mr. Lilly’s, where, not finding Mr. Spong, I went to Mr. Greatorex, where I met him, and so to an alehouse, where I bought of him a drawing-pen; and he did show me the manner of the lamp-glasses, which carry the light a great way, good to read in bed by, and I intend to have one of them.

So to Mr. Lilly’s with Mr. Spong, where well received, there being a club to-night among his friends. Among the rest Esquire Ashmole, who I found was a very ingenious gentleman. With him we two sang afterward in Mr. Lilly’s study. That done, we all parted; and I home by coach, taking Mr. Booker with me, who did tell me a great many fooleries, which may be done by nativities, and blaming Mr. Lilly for writing to please his friends and to keep in with the times (as he did formerly to his own dishonour), and not according to the rules of art, by which he could not well err, as he had done.

I set him down at Lime-street end, and so home, where I found a box of Carpenter’s tools sent by my cozen, Thomas Pepys, which I had bespoke of him for to employ myself with sometimes.

To bed.

54 Annotations

First Reading

Ian  •  Link

"I found Captain Murford, who did put 3l. into my hands for a friendship I had done him, but I would not take it,"

Ah, how nice of Sam!

"but bade him keep it till he has enough to buy my wife a necklace."

...or not.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

in a pepper box
L&M substitute "pepper" for "paper". Would have been tough to distinguish in the shorthand.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

who is now brought to bed of a boy
L&M: "Charles, Duke of Cambridge, b. 22 October; d. 5 May 1661."

Paul Brewster  •  Link

That done, we all parted
Looks like a scan error. Both Wheatley and L&M have "parted" for "pared"

Paul Brewster  •  Link

Mr. Lilly for writing to please his friends and to keep in with the times
L&M: "Lilly was mercenary by his own admission (see his 'Hist. of his life and times' ...) and was suspected of having been in the pay of every successive government of the past twenty years. Certainly his popular almanacks adjusted to each change of regime. He claimed, however, that the government pension he had been given in 1649 was only for two years, and for foreign intelligence, not astrological prophecy .... In 1660 his almanackes lay under some disrepute because of his failure to forsee any of the changes in English government in 1659-1660 or the defeat and death of his foreign patron, Charles Gustavus of Sweden."

Paul Brewster  •  Link

Captain Murford, who did put 3l. into my hands for a friendship I had done him
L&M: "William Murford was a timber merchant and entrepreneur. He was soon to offer Pepys a share in a light-house project and from the beginning of his acquaintance with Pepys had pressed gifts on him .... The diary records no gift of a necklace by him to Mrs Pepys."

Paul Brewster  •  Link

taking Mr. Booker with me, who did tell me a great many fooleries, which may be done by nativities
L&M: "John Booker, Astrologer"

Seems like we may have a case of "professional" jealousy here.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

Booker, Lilly and Ashmole
"1646 Elias Ashmole develops a further interest in Astrology by being introduced to William Lilly and John Booker, who were then regarded as being the best living astrologers. Ashmole was to purchase their libraries after their deaths."

http://smithpp0.tripod.com/psp/id…

vincent  •  Link

How meanings have change?"...This afternoon people at work in my house to make a light in my yard into my cellar...." Light = window or opening?

vincent  •  Link

Invention? nite lite: "...where I bought of him a drawing-pen; and he did show me the manner of the lamp-glasses, which carry the light a great way, good to read in bed by, and I intend to have one of them..."
Interesting? candle with glass dome or fixture { probable a four side metal device ?} so he can now read in bed without setting fire to the pillow.

vincent  •  Link

That done, we all parted[pared]
Looks like a scan error. Both Wheatley and L&M have “parted” for “pared”
I think two by two is the better. It shows the break up of the evening, every one has a friend to share the trip for mutual concern. Home without being parted of some of their belongings.

JohnMacSF  •  Link

Could the cellar work be a direct result of Sam's discovery last week - either a little ventilation, or more light to help one watch their step!

Roger Arbor  •  Link

Elias Ashmole... of course what interests anyone with Oxford University connections is that EA's 'collection' formed the basis of the Ashmolean Museum's exhibits. Worth a visit when next in Oxford!

Mary  •  Link

Light = window

We still (on this side of the Atlantic at least) refer to fanlights and have them in our windows.

Mary  •  Link

lamp-glasses

What is Greatorex demonstrating here? Perhaps something like the bull's-eye lamp-glass that later became fairly common in lanterns?

Ruben  •  Link

to Ian:
you are using your values to judge SP. That is wrong. It was another world. Try to understand that world but do not judge their ways and mores.
Same as with quartering of the enemies of the State.
SP opened for posterity a small window to his world. I think he undestood that, like himself, others would be interested in learning for the sake of knowing.

Michal  •  Link

To Ruben:
Why are we precluded from "judging his ways and mores" by our lights? Sam is seemingly so like us in many ways, but in other ways his sensibilities seem very different. Like a friend we admire for good qualities, we might yet find fault at times. As to the practice of quartering, ways and mores of the time notwithstanding, I "judge" it to be an abomnibal practice. Do you disagree?

Ed LeZotte  •  Link

Thank you Ruben. You know, there are days when I dred signing on here -- I come to Pepys to spend a few minutes or more in the 17th Century -- to escape, if you will, the horribleness that is the 21st Century. I come to learn, to witness insofar as is possible another time another place from which we came.

Peter  •  Link

"Lights".... We have just had some work done to our house, including some windows in the roof, which my wife refers to as "roof lights"

Ruben  •  Link

Sam seems to be a modern person but he could not be. To be a modern person you have to live in a modern society.
So called good or bad qualities are only a reflection of our mores.
May be in his days what you call good qualities where considered by society irrelevant or worse "weaknesses" of character, that preclude advancement in society.

Quartering a dead body is a terrible spectacle...for us.
I am sorry. I am a modest person. I do not think that I am equal or better than Sam. We are just different, and I like that.

Mary  •  Link

17th Century mores

It looks as if this interchange of views is developing into something that might be better treated in the discussion group. In reading the diary, we surely seek to reach an understanding of Pepys and his times; however, that understanding does not, of itself, necessitate approval of everything that we read. Understanding and approval are two entirely different matters.

Carolina  •  Link

17th Century mores

Mary, absolutely right !
We do not have to understand or approve or disapprove. We are lucky to be given a glimpse of life in Sam's time and I love it, especially the bit where Sam says "we are friends again, as always" about his wife.

helena murphy  •  Link

Thank you Ruben for your insight into Pepys'era.Our squeamishness at the sight of a disembowelled body would have been interpreted as weakness then.The first half of the 17th century was only the threshold of the modern era,society was much more militaristic as well,witness carrying loaded pistols and the wearing of swords by civilians,as well as urban militias, massacres during the thirty years war in Germany and later in Ireland.Those who advanced in society,accoladed with titles ,rank and position had all had blood on their hands,Albermarle,Ormonde,Inchiquin,Prince Rupert is just to mention a few.These men were also the custodians of the heroic values of a previous era,the medieval era.Pepys pathetically tries to imitate these values when he wears a sword in Holland.He imitated but he never questioned the significance of it all as he too was a man of his times like the others.The Enlightenment will arrive in the following century and with it a more "civilized"approach to life such as the ending of trials for witchcraft, for example.

Mac  •  Link

Thank you Ian. By expressing an opinion you where able to garner opinions from others.
Whether the 17th or 21st century the fundamentals of survival is money and
status to the ambitious.
This is why many of us know Sam well.

Rick Ansell  •  Link

Whilst it is true that at this date civilian gentlemen wore swords its worth remembering that when Pepys went to Holland it was with a Warrant as a member of the ships crew. He wasn't a civilian and would have been expected to fight if the ship had to go into action. There was no 'pathetic imitation' when he went to Holland - he needed a sword of some sort.

Mr Sheplys pistols would have been likely to have been Horse Pistols - a wise investment for someone travelling (presumably with a load of valuable items for his lord in his charge) out of London. They weren't for show, armed robbery on the highway was a real risk, one that Peyps encountered many years after the end of the diary.

Montague was an Admiral and Shepley his servant. In order to accompany his master to sea Mr Shepley would have had to have been appointed Admirals Servant and therefore enter the military. He too would have been expected to fight. The pistols would, no doubt, also come in handy in a boarding action.

Harry  •  Link

I took occasion to be angry with my wife before I rose about her putting up of half a crown of mine in a paper box, which she had forgot where she had lain it. But we were friends again as we are always.

I find this last comment delightful.

oliverm  •  Link

"Lights"

Here in California we still refer to windows in the roof as "sky-lights".

Grahamt  •  Link

The names skylight and fanlight are still in use in the UK too, but less commonly than before.

Peter  •  Link

Other lights that come to mind are:
"Leaded lights" which is definitely still in use to describe the type of window where small panes of glass are held together with strips of lead.
"Quarter Light"... which was the name given to those small triangular windows that used to be found on cars up until about 20 years ago.

Nix  •  Link

Students of real estate law learn of the "doctrine of ancient lights" -- limiting the ability of a landowner to build in a way that blocks long-established windows on an adjoining property.

LeAnn Smith  •  Link

lamp-glasses

Just a guess, but he may have been shown something similar to a lacemaker's lamp. It's a flask of water (clear, snow-water being the best) that is placed in front of the candle, globe-up, and can be adjusted to focus the light some distance away. Lacemaker's lamps had multiple flasks around the candle so that many lacemakers (as many as 18)could sit and work around one candle - more economical.

Here's a website with some details about lacemaker's lamps:
http://lace.lacefairy.com/Gallery…

I've really enjoyed reading the diary entries and discussions; it's nice to be able to contribute, as well.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Pepys got an OED citation for today's entry

pepperbox, n.

1. a. A small box with a (usually domed) perforated lid, used for sprinkling pepper on food; a pepper pot. Now chiefly arch. and hist.

1543 Privy Purse Expenses Princess Mary (1831) 96 A litle peper Boxe siluer & gilt. 1546 in W. Page Inventories Church Goods York, Durham & Northumberland (1897) 86 A peper box, weying vj oz. iij quarters. a1616 SHAKESPEARE Merry Wives of Windsor (1623) III. v. 135 Hee cannot creepe into a halfe-penny purse, nor into a Pepper-Boxe. 1660 S. PEPYS Diary 24 Oct. (1970) I. 273 To be angry with my wife..about her putting up of half a crowne of mine in a pepper box. 1707 Boston News-let. 17 Feb. 2/2 One Peppar Box, a large Porringer. a1782 R. GRAVES Fable in R. Dodsley Coll. Poems (1782) V. 70 The pepper-box..upon the table. 1865 J. MACGREGOR Rob Roy on Baltic (1867) 205 There is the blind that won't pull down or stop up, and the pepper~box that won't pepper. 1882 W. D. HOWELLS Mod. Instance xiv, Besides the caster, there was a bottle of Leicestershire sauce on the table, and salt in what Marcia thought a pepper-box....

b. In allusive expressions, referring to the action or appearance of a pepperbox. Also attrib. in pepperbox spelling. Now rare.

1821 Sporting Mag. 7 273/2 Both now began to slash away, and the pepper box was handed from one to another. 1898 Argosy July 648 One of those rapid fire guns will make a pepper box of him in no time. 1901 Daily News 25 Feb. 6/2 The swarm of nonentities upon whom..the pepper-box of titles is shaken. 1948 J. R. FIRTH in E. P. Hamp et al. Readings in Linguistics II (1966) 178 The Romans and the English managed to dispense with those written signs called �accents� and avoided pepperbox spelling. 1948 N. NICHOLSON Coll. Poems (1994) 132 The poppy shakes its pepper-box of seed.

2. Something regarded as resembling a pepperbox.

a. Freq. depreciative. A small cylindrical turret or cupola. Now rare.

1763 G. COLMAN in Terræ Filius 7 July 45 A queer Sort of Building, Ma'am, said young Bonus,a mere Pepper-Box,and there,(pointing to the Turrets of All Souls) there are the Sugar-Casters....

b. An early type of gun in which five or six barrels revolve round a central axis. Also pepperbox pistol, pepperbox revolver.

1850 A. T. JACKSON Diary of Forty-Niner 22 Sept. (1906) iii. 28 Donovan..jumped a claim, and when the rightful owner warned him off he drew an Allen's pepper box and shot Tracy. 1872 �M. TWAIN� Roughing It ii. 23 An old original �Allen� revolver, such as irreverent people called a �pepper-box�. 1901 W. CHURCHILL Crisis II. xviii. 280 Out of his pocket hung the curved butt of a big pepper-box revolver....

3. fig. A hot-tempered person. Now rare.

[1814 J. GALT Waychouse I. ii. 25 Ye're a welshman, and nae doubt as het in the temper, as a pepper box.]....

4. In the Eton game of fives: a buttress which protrudes into the court from the left-hand wall (see quot. 1902).

...1902 C. R. STONE Eton Gloss. 25 Pepper-box.One of the great differences between Eton fives and Rugby fives is the pepper-box, the irregular buttress sticking into the court..imitated from the original fives court in the side of Upper Chapel... Originally pepper-box was the name applied only to the Dead Man's Hole, but now generally to the whole buttress....

B. adj. (attrib.). Of (a part of) a tower or turret: that resembles a pepperbox in shape.

1771 T. PENNANT Tour Scotl. 1769 203 A slender square tower with a pepper-box top.

http://www.oed.com/cgi/display/50…

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Re Paul Brewster's post: Booker, Lilly and Ashmole
"1646 Elias Ashmole develops a further interest in Astrology by being introduced to William Lilly and John Booker, who were then regarded as being the best living astrologers. Ashmole was to purchase their libraries after their deaths."

Renaissance Astrology

BBC Radio 4 IN OUR TIME podcast | Duration: 45 minutes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b…

Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss Renaissance Astrology. In Act I Scene II of King Lear, the ne’er do well Edmund steps forward and rails at the weakness and cynicism of his fellow men:

This is the excellent foppery of the world, that,
when we are sick in fortune, - often the surfeit
of our own behaviour, - we make guilty of our
disasters the sun, the moon, and the stars: as
if we were villains by necessity.

The focus of his attack is astrology and the credulity of those who fall for its charms. But the idea that earthly life was ordained in the heavens was essential to the Renaissance understanding of the world. The movements of the heavens influenced many things from the practice of medicine to major political decisions. Every renaissance court had its astrologer including Elizabeth Ist and the mysterious Dr. John Dee who chose the most propitious date for her coronation. But astrologers also worked in the universities and on the streets, reading horoscopes, predicting crop failures and rivalling priests and doctors as pillars of the local community.

But why did astrological ideas flourish in the period, how did astrologers interpret and influence the course of events and what new ideas eventually brought the astrological edifice tumbling down?

With Peter Forshaw, Lecturer in Renaissance Philosophies at Birkbeck, University of London; Lauren Kassell, Lecturer in the History and Philosophy of Science at the University of Cambridge; and Jonathan Sawday, Professor of English Studies at the University of Strathclyde.

Bill  •  Link

"who did tell me a great many fooleries, which may be done by nativities"

NATIVITY [among Astrologers] is the true Time of a Person's Birth, or a Figure of the Heavens cast for that Time.
---An Universal Etymological English Dictionary. N. Bailey, 1675.

Bill  •  Link

"there being a club to-night among his friends."

We've run across "club" before. It means they're going to split the bill.

Dick Wilson  •  Link

The Lord Chancellor has become the grandfather of the Duke of Cambridge. The current Duke of Cambridge is William, Prince of Wales.

Carol  •  Link

I think the current Duke of Cambridge is William, son of Charles, Prince of Wales.

Dick Wilson  •  Link

Yes Carol, you are correct. I forgot about Charles.

Chris Squire UK  •  Link

A second OED hit for SP:

‘nativity, n.
. . 4. Astrol. Birth considered astrologically; a horoscope. Now rare (arch.).
. . c1485 G. Hay Bk. Knychthede (1914) 150 For the body of the persone that is borne folowis the nature of the body of the sternis and planetis that concurris in his nativitee.
. . 1660 S. Pepys Diary 24 Oct. (1970) I. 274 Mr. Booker..did tell me a great many fooleries what may be done by Nativitys . . ‘

Carol  •  Link

Fascinated to read LeAnn's post about lacemakers' lamps. I wonder if the 'bottle lights' recently in the news are a 21st century re-working of the same principle?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazin…

Annie B  •  Link

Well I for one am certainly intrigued by this necklace for Mrs. Pepys! 3l isn't enough? I wonder how much the captain will be expected to save for that?!

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"Paul Brewster - That done, we all parted
Looks like a scan error. Both Wheatley and L&M have "parted" for "pared""

What is the evidence for "pared"?
"Parted" is Pepys's usual way of saying "departed."

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"writing to please his friends and to keep in with the times (as he did formerly to his own dishonour), and not according to the rules of art, by which he could not well err, as he had done."

Pepys seems to hint there are eternally and universally valid "rules of art" that can prevent error. May these be rules of composition like Aristotle's rules of tragedy? What rules apply to the composition of almanacs like Lilly published?

Third Reading

MartinVT  •  Link

Light=window

Here in New England, "lights" is still used quite commonly, especially among older rural people, to mean individual panes in a window divided by muntins. A neighbor told me: "Some kid threw a rock at the window and broke one of the lights."

MartinVT  •  Link

"I found a box of Carpenter’s tools sent by my cozen, Thomas Pepys, which I had bespoke of him for to employ myself with sometimes."

Sam and Liz stopped by Thomas's place on October 15 "for some things that we wanted." Perhaps this is when Sam bespoke the set of tools. We shall see how he employs himself with them.

Jude Russo  •  Link

"Light" is also fossilized in the familiar compound "skylight" (a window in your roof).

Alison ONeill  •  Link

I'm new here, hello! (Sorry I forgot to say hello before my very first post. Too eager to post!)
Am very curious about the drawing-pen. Does anyone have info on this? I thought it was all quills.

Archie Toppin  •  Link

In Scotland we still use ‘skylight’ for a window on the pitched roof of a house for obvious reasons. Skylights are becoming more common here as householders extend their living space into their attics.

RLB  •  Link

@Alison: as someone who sometimes dabbles in calligraphy, I suspect it's just a finer cut of quill, suitable for drawing rather than writing. That is, with a sharp point rather than the flat one used to write with. Maybe even a crow quill rather than a goose one? Certainly not a steel pen, they didn't have steel flexible enough for pens at Sam's time. But yes, there would be - and still are - pens for writing, and pens for drawing. That was true in the age of quills as much as in the age of felt tips.

RLB  •  Link

OK, so after two decades, which of the two is it!? Is it pepperbox, as in the OED (a source I do not lightly dismiss, as I have a SOED on my table here, although it has only the Shakespeare citation and omits Sam and everything later); or is it paper box, as in Wheatley as cited here and on Gutenberg?
Pepperbox, to me, makes slightly more sense. A pepperbox in those days would be a box with a lid, not a grinder as we have now; and a paper box would be what? A foolscap page folded into a container? A cardboard box, like a shoebox? Seems unlikely. Some academic could write a paper on the analysis of this one word in Pepys' original manuscript.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"1646 Elias Ashmole develops a further interest in Astrology by being introduced to William Lilly and John Booker, who were then regarded as being the best living astrologers. Ashmole was to purchase their libraries after their deaths."

You can now read "The Life of William Lilly a Student in Astrology
Written by himself in the 66th year of his age, at Hersham in the parish of Walton-on-Thames in the county of Surrey"
Transcribed from the autobiography by Sue Ward
Copywrite 1998 and 2009
https://classicalastrologer.files…

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

'Students of real estate law learn of the "doctrine of ancient lights" -- limiting the ability of a landowner to build in a way that blocks long-established windows on an adjoining property.'

Not old enough, apparently. Batten has blocked Pepys' cellar light when the Navy made the recent property upgrades.

I find this difficult to imagine. I've been to Seething Lane and seen the park where the Navy building existed. It is flat. So how did they have cellar "lights" i.e. windows. I've never seen an Elizabethan house built so the basement gets natural light -- that was a Georgian innovation as I recall.
If it was built on a hillside there could be a groundfloor house entrance on the uphill, and a window into the cellar on the downhill side.
But the park is flat, and Pepys tells us the groundfloor kitchen has a door into the Navy yard.

Perhaps this "light" was a small shute to the basement for the use of the coal man -- which indicates a space between the house and the street where such a utility shute could be dug out???? Again, I've never seen a Tudor house built in crowded London like that.

Whatever the case, I trust Batten had the courtesy to make sure Pepys had an alternative before he bricked up Pepys' existing light.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"He tells me, among other things, that the Duke of York is now sorry for his lying with my Lord Chancellor’s daughter, who is now brought to bed of a boy."

Clearly Pepys doesn't consider Anne Hyde as the Duchess of York yet -- she's just the wayward daughter of Chancellor Hyde's.

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