Glyn on 28 Oct 2003  •  Link

Edward Montagu junior had been educated in the village of Twickenham since mid-January:

http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

Paul Brewster on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

great day for the Consacrating of five Bishopps
L&M: "The first consecration of bishops since 1644. The service was conduct by Brian Duppa, Bishop of Winchester; the preacher of John Sudbury, Prebendary of Westminster. The new bishops were those of London (Sheldon), Salisbury (Henchman), Worcester (Morley), Lincoln (Sanderson) and St Asaph (Griffith). After further consecrations in the following December and January only two sees remained to be filled."

Paul Brewster on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

there we did stay all service-time -- which I thought a great honour
L&M: "Admission to the King's Closet (where the royal entourage assembled before proceeding into chapel) was in theory limited to peers, privy councillors, and gentlemen of the bed-chamber."

"(where the royal entourage assembled before proceeding into chapel)"
I'm not sure this was the sense of our previous discussions: http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
It's also a little surprising in light of the statement "there we did stay all service-time" in the diary.

Pauline on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

"I'm not sure this was the sense of our previous discussions:”
It’s the sense I had. Maybe a setup that allows first a private and then moving out to a public presence in chapel. (If you were having a bad-hair day you could remain concealed and not move out into view.) A setup that allowed the royal party to assemble and then “be on stage” when they were ready to be seen.

Thinking this, I assumed that my lady and Sam and young Jem were allowed into the private part (hearing the sermon through the curtain, and well-placed), but perhaps moving out into the public part of the royal pew would be going too far. I also assumed that they got where they got because the king is not there and someone was willing to give our lady this little treat.

vincent on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

"...There came some pills and plaister this morning from Dr. Williams for my wife...."
The cure: Go off and let the little lady rest: putting the plaister on: don't ask who ?
"...where I did find my wife pretty well after her physic. So to bed...."

vincent on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

It always pays to know who has the key: The Key holder always likes to show his power behind the Throne. "...So meeting with one Mr. Hill, that did know my Lady, he did take us into the King's closet, and there we did stay all service-time, which I did think a great honour….”

David Quidnunc on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

Child, Hill and Jemima Mountagu

Jemima must love her music -- she is on very good terms with Child (a professional organist) and Hill (a singer and composer).

Mary on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

A closet

OED sense 1: A room for privacy or retirement; a private room; an inner chamber.

OED sense 2: The private apartment of a monarch or potentate; the private council-chamber; a room in a palace used by the sovereign for private or household devotions.

OED sense 3: a private repository for personal valuables or curiosities.

Jenny Doughty on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

An interesting link is http://www.soilandhealth.org/03so…, an etext version of part of a book called 'The Country House-wife's companion', published in 1750. It makes several references to different kinds of 'plaister' that the doctor might have prescribed for Elizabeth. The term apparently could be used for anything that was sticky and spreadable, and the connection with sticking plaster seems to have come from the practice of spreading the sticky substance onto a piece of linen or other cloth, in order to apply it to an area of the body, rather than (as could be done) spreading it directly on there. So it carries connotations, to me, not just of sticking plaster but also of ointment. We still use the phrase 'plastering' in the sense of 'spreading thickly' of course.

Jenny Doughty on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

The link above seems not to work, so try this one and click on 'Diseases and Health'. If this doesn't work, go to the home page and click on the 'Alternative Living' library and follow through to this link.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/03so…

David A. Smith on 29 Oct 2003  •  Link

"with much difficulty, going round by the cloysters, I got in"
What we continue to like about Sam, his utter transparency both of action (here is the embarrassing thing I did) and emotion (here is the perhaps ignoble thing I thought about it). One can all but hear him cursing, tricked up in his finest velvet, hose, and buckled shoes, trying to find his way in ....

Terry Foreman on 2 Sep 2013  •  Link

""with much difficulty, going round by the cloysters" may have referred to the Great Cloister of Westminster Abbey which is far from Henry VII's Lady Chapel. The general floor plan: http://www.westminster-abbey.org/…

Chris Squire UK on 30 Oct 2013  •  Link

OED has:

‘plaster, n. Etym: In Old English, probably < post-classical Latin plastrum . .
1. a. Originally: a solid medicinal or emollient substance spread on a bandage or dressing and applied to the skin, often becoming adhesive at body temperature (now rare or hist.) . .
. . 1597 W. Langham Garden of Health 90 A plaster of sowre bread boyled in wine, draweth sores passing well.
1638 Mass. Bay Rec. I. 224 Shee is not to meddle in surgery, or phisick, drinks, plaisters, or oyles.
1679 F. Beaumont Knight of Burning Pestle iii. i. 59 This furious fiend..Did cut the gristle of my Nose away, And in the place this velvet plaster stands . . ‘

San Diego Sarah on 24 Jun 2022  •  Link

"After dinner to White Hall chappell; my Lady and my Lady Jemimah and I up to the King’s closet (who is now gone to meet the Queen). So meeting with one Mr. Hill, that did know my Lady, he did take us into the King’s closet, and there we did stay all service-time, which I did think a great honour."

Charles II's closet ... probably akin to a man cave today ... overlooked the Chappel. This was common in noble houses; rich people often started their days with Matins, and if they didn't want to attend, or couldn't because of illness, they could open a large window overlooking the alter and hear the service unobserved. I agree with Pepys; being with a known lady was a boon today.

@@@

John Evelyn agrees:

28 October, 1660.
His Majesty went to meet the Queen-Mother.

John Evelyn's Diary – he and Mary Browne Evelyn live at Saye's Court, Deptford.

http://brittlebooks.library.illin…

@@@

Charles II has left for Dover to welcome Queen Mother Henrietta Maria, being brought over from France by Lady Jemima Crew Montagu's husband, the Earl of Sandwich.

MartinVT on 27 Oct 2023  •  Link

"he did take us into the King’s closet, and there we did stay all service-time" after dining with my Lady.

Consider the arc of Sam's journey so far this year — on January 1, he was living in a garret, and dined upon "the remains of a turkey, and in the doing of it [Elizabeth] burned her hand." If he dined at Montagu's at all, it was in the servants' hall, not with my Lord or my Lady in the dining room. And now, he's worshiping with gentry in the King's own "closet." He rightly feels honoured.

San Diego Sarah on 29 Oct 2023  •  Link

"Mr. Sidney, who was sent for from Twickenham to see my Lord Mayor’s show to-morrow."

According to https://www.historyofparliamenton…
The Parliamentary bio of The Hon. Sidney [Wortley] Montagu "b. 28 July 1650, 2nd s. of Edward Montagu, 1st Earl of Sandwich;
bro. of Edward, Visct. Hinchingbrooke [1648 –1688],
Hon. Oliver Montagu. [1655 –1689]
and Hon. Charles -- I can't find any dates for him.
educ. Twickenham (Dr. Fuller) by 1660; Paris acad. (du Plessis) 1662–4; ..."

That means he started at Dr. Fuller's school before 1660.

Dr. William Fuller's school
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…

San Diego Sarah on 29 Oct 2023  •  Link

CONT ...
As Glyn reminded us above, “My young lord” Edward Montagu Jr. had been educated at Dr. Fuller's since January, so it is curious that Pepys makes it sound as if only Sidney has been released from there for the Lord Mayor's show.

Sidney is the robust second son; Edward is the eldest, who has medical challenges.

Jeremy Buck on 29 Oct 2023  •  Link

The Lord Mayor's Show took place on October 29th each year until 1751, when it changed to November 9th. Nowadays it's held on the second Saturday of November, so in 2023 it's on November 11th ..

Neville on 29 Oct 2023  •  Link

Am I right in assuming, without any medical knowledge, that poor Elizabeth's condition would today be treated with antibiotics?
Whatever it was on the poultice seemed to have worked very quickly.

San Diego Sarah on 30 Oct 2023  •  Link

Neville, since we are not sure what -- or where -- these boils were, it's hard to say.

I Googled your question, and this was the answer:
"... Elizabeth's health was an ongoing issue throughout the Diary. She often suffered from a recurring abscess, believed to be a Bartholin's cyst, which often made sexual relations difficult for the couple."

"If the cyst becomes infected the swelling may become filled with pus (then called an abscess). Bartholin's cyst or abscess affect up to 3 in 100 women and can be treated with antibiotics or with a small procedure/operation to drain the collection."

Today, this type of poultice is advocated for a Bartholin's cyst:
"Fresh Chickweed Poultice:
A poultice is an external compress made of herbs. They can be made with fresh or dried herbs, and applied to the skin for many different effects, both for a first-aid and immediate need or for helping to treat chronic illness and pain. Here’s a more in-depth article on poultices and techniques for creating them from The Herbal Academy: How To Make a Poultice with Dry or Fresh Herbs https://theherbalacademy.com/how-…

"If you have access to a fresh patch of chickweed, you can cut a few sprigs at a time and apply them directly to the cyst. Lightly crush the stems and leaves between your fingers and roll them together, making a bundle of bruised chickweed. Apply that ball of herbs directly to the cyst and put a cool, damp cloth on top of it. This can feel very cooling to the inflamed skin! When you can feel the warmth returning and the cooling effect dwindling (usually around 10-15 minutes) replace the chickweed with new and repeat the process.

"You can also puree a few handfuls of chickweed with some cool water in a bullet blender and pour it into a jar to store in the fridge. Don’t make it too thin, you want it to be a bit chunky and thick! Use the cold puree in muslin or other cloth to apply to the cyst."
https://www.pixiespocket.com/2018…

San Diego Sarah on 31 Oct 2023  •  Link

Seems a lot of people checked out Charles' closet while he was off to Dover to meet Queen Mothrr Henrietta Maria. This would have been what Pepys saw:

"1st November, 1660. I went with some of my relations to Court, to show them his Majesty's cabinet and closet of rarities; the rare miniatures of Peter Oliver, after Raphael, Titian, and other masters, which I infinitely esteem; also, that large piece of the Duchess of Lennox, done in enamel, by Petitot, and a vast number of agates, onyxes, and intaglios, especially a medallion of Caesar, as broad as my hand; likewise, rare cabinets of pietra-commessa, a landscape of needlework, formerly presented by the Dutch to King Charles I.
"Here I saw a vast book of maps, in a volume near four yards large; a curious ship model; and, among the clocks, one that showed the rising and setting of the sun in the zodiac; the sun represented by a face and rays of gold, upon an azure sky, observing the diurnal and annual motion, rising and setting behind a landscape of hills,-- the work of our famous Fromantil, -- and several other rarities."

FROM:
The Diary of John Evelyn (Vol 1)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/41…
EDITED FROM THE ORIGINAL MSS by WILLIAM BRAY
M. WALTER DUNNE, PUBLISHER -- WASHINGTON & LONDON
COPYRIGHT, 1901 -- BY M. WALTER DUNNE, PUBLISHER