Thursday 15 November 1660

To Westminster, and it being very cold upon the water I went all alone to the Sun and drank a draft of mulled white wine, and so to Mr. de Cretz, whither I sent for J. Spicer (to appoint him to expect me this afternoon at the office, with the other 1000l. from Whitehall), and here we staid and did see him give some finishing touches to my Lord’s picture, so at last it is complete to my mind, and I leave mine with him to copy out another for himself, and took the original by a porter with me to my Lord’s, where I found my Lord within, and staid hearing him and Mr. Child playing upon my Lord’s new organ, the first time I ever heard it.

My Lord did this day show me the King’s picture, which was done in Flanders, that the King did promise my Lord before he ever saw him, and that we did expect to have had at sea before the King came to us; but it came but to-day, and indeed it is the most pleasant and the most like him that ever I saw picture in my life.

As dinner was coming on table, my wife came to my Lord’s, and I got her carried in to my Lady, who took physic to-day, and was just now hiring of a French maid that was with her, and they could not understand one another till my wife came to interpret. Here I did leave my wife to dine with my Lord, the first time he ever did take notice of her as my wife, and did seem to have a just esteem for her. And did myself walk homewards (hearing that Sir W. Pen was gone before in a coach) to overtake him and with much ado at last did in Fleet Street, and there I went in to him, and there was Sir Arnold Brames, and we all three to Sir W. Batten’s to dinner, he having a couple of Servants married to-day; and so there was a great number of merchants, and others of good quality on purpose after dinner to make an offering, which, when dinner was done, we did, and I did give ten shillings and no more, though I believe most of the rest did give more, and did believe that I did so too.

From thence to Whitehall again by water to Mr. Fox and by two porters carried away the other 1000l.. He was not within himself, but I had it of his kinsman, and did give him 4l.. and other servants something.

But whereas I did intend to have given Mr. Fox himself a piece of plate of 50l. I was demanded 100l., for the fee of the office at 6d. a pound, at which I was surprised, but, however, I did leave it there till I speak with my Lord.

So I carried it to the Exchequer, where at Will’s I found Mr. Spicer, and so lodged it at his office with the rest.

From thence after a pot of ale at Will’s I took boat in the dark and went for all that to the old Swan, and so to Sir Wm. Batten’s, and leaving some of the gallants at cards I went home.

Where I found my wife much satisfied with my Lord’s discourse and respect to her, and so after prayers to bed.

33 Annotations

First Reading

Jenny Doughty  •  Link

'My Lord did this day show me the King's picture, which was done in Flanders, …and indeed it is the most pleasant and the most like him that ever I saw picture in my life.’ Do we know if this portrait is still extant and is there a link to it anywhere?

Pauline  •  Link

"...I did give ten shillings and no more, though I believe most of the rest did give more, and did believe that I did so too..."

So believed they all?

vincent  •  Link

"Sutor ne supra crepidam iudicaret."
So He don't want to thought to be a skin flint? Another of the deadly sins that we fight against.

vincent  •  Link

"... and I leave mine with him to copy out another for himself,..." A copy of a copy, interesting! Payment or part payment? I wonder how many copies there are of Popular figures? No Copy right? Did he sign his name or make a mark to indicate, not an Original?

vincent  •  Link

"..by two porters carried away the other 1000l.. ..." not notes of credit I guess, No bankers IOU .

David Quidnunc  •  Link

The King's picture

Yes, Jenny, it's still around, according to a note in the L&M edition.

As of 1965 at least (apparently that's when Volume 1 of the L&M edition was being researched) it was still owned by the Sandwich family and was on loan to the Ministry of Works. The artist is unknown, although it's been suggested that Simon Luttichuys painted it.

It's a full-length portrait done near the end of the Interregnum, and L&M calls it "one of the most impressive portraits painted of the king before the Restoration."

Mary  •  Link

... a draft of mulled white wine....

Sam's morning draft has been discussed several times and we're agreed that it would usually have been of fairly light, 'small' beer. When an exception is made, in this case of a somewhat stiffer beverage of mulled wine, it looks as if Sam finds it sufficiently noteworthy to remark both upon the drink itself and the reason for it: 'being very cold upon the water.'

Mary  •  Link

Milady's French maid

In time it was to become extremely fahsionable to have a French maid. These women/girls were reputed to be unusually skilful with needle and thread (especially if they had been convent-educated) and also had a reputation for skill in hair-dressing.

Sam is clearly delighted at the prospect of Elizabeth's usefulness as an interpreter drawing the Pepyses even closer to Sandwich.

David A. Smith  •  Link

"and did seem to have a just esteem for her"
Wife as partner, wife as possession; is it just me, or does Sam care that Montagu appreciates his wife for the sake not so much of her ego as for his?

J A Gioia  •  Link

...others of good quality on purpose after dinner to make an offering, which, when dinner was done, we did...

was this a kind of benefit dinner for the newlyweds? if so it seems an awfully nice gesture by the boss and his business pals, seems like a standard practice too.

and the thousand quid was coin of the realm, and mighty heavy too; as, apparently, was the vig.

Roger Arbor  •  Link

Interesting that Samuel can walk faster than the (horsedrawn?) coach.

john lauer  •  Link

JA, is that 'vigorish', to which you refer?

john lauer  •  Link

Roger, 'much ado' must mean he really hustled... .

Mary  •  Link

man vs. coach

Sam could, of course, use side-alleys and short-cuts that would be too narrow to allow a coach to pass.

Jenny Doughty  •  Link

I can't Google up the Charles II portrait, but here's an engraving of one by the same artist, of Henry, Duke of Gloucester (recently deceased in the diary): http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search…

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

An issue with a long history prior to its being listed as a grievance in 1776 in the US Declaration of Independence

Commons considers Quartering Soldiers. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…

The humble Petition of the Innholders and Victuallers of New Windsor in the County of Berks was this Day read; they thereby complaining, that about Three hundred Soldiers, lately listed in his Majesty's Castle of Windsor, are quartered upon them by several Numbers in a House; and, besides Six-pence per diem apiece, which the Petitioners are ordered to lend them, they are to allow them Fire, Candle, dressing of their Diet, and Lodging; which makes the Burden so heavy, that they are ready to sink under it; and humbly praying Redress in these their Grievances.

Bill  •  Link

"two porters carried away the other 1000l."

On Nov. 12 Sam needed a coach to transport 3000l. Today 2 porters for 1000l. Hard currency is heavy! Silver crowns weigh 4oz. per monetary pound. Surely some gold coins were involved.

Sasha Clarkson  •  Link

I suspect that you're right Bill, that Gold was involved. :) But Silver crowns never weighed 4oz.

The system of weights used for precious metals was based on the Troy ounce, which is different to the Avoirdupois (Imperial) ounce. "The weight of the English penny was fixed at 22.5 troy grains (about 1.46 grams) by Offa of Mercia," Thus a pound's worth of silver, 240 pennies, would weigh about 350 grammes, just over 12 imperial ounces, no matter what the denomination of the coins. Despite mediaeval debasement of the currency, by the 17th century sterling (92.5%) silver had been restored.

So, £1000, if all in silver, would have weighed about 770 pounds or 350 kilograms - about seven hundredweight - far too much for two people to carry!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coi…

Bill  •  Link

Sasha, I was unclear. "4oz. per monetary pound" meant that 1£ weighted 4oz. A Silver Crown weighs 1 oz.

A Silver Crown of Charles II from 1662 weighs 29.7 grams ( http://museumvictoria.com.au/coll… ). So 4 Crowns to the (monetary) pound weight 118.8 grams and 1000£ would weigh 118.8 kg or 262 (American!) pounds. A lot of silver for even 2 porters.

A Silver Penny of Charles II weighs .486 grams ( http://museumvictoria.com.au/coll… ). 240 pennies weigh 116.6 grams and 1000£ weigh 116.6 kg. Bingo!

Sasha Clarkson  •  Link

Sorry Bill - I was unaware of exactly when the link between the value of a pound sterling and and a (Troy) pound's worth of silver was broken. Poor research on my part! :)

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"to Sir W. Batten’s to dinner, he having a couple of Servants married to-day; and so there was a great number of merchants, and others of good quality on purpose after dinner to make an offering, which, when dinner was done, we did"

L&M: The registers of St Olave's record as the only marriage this day that of Thomas Peake and Martha Webb: The registers of St. Olave, Hart street, London, 1563-1700 46/275 https://archive.org/details/regis…
It was usual for a prosperous householder's friends and neighbors to give 'offerings' of this sort at the marriage of his servants.

John Wheater  •  Link

"...100l., for the fee of the office at 6d. a pound..."

How does this work out?

Third Reading

MartinVT  •  Link

"...100l., for the fee of the office at 6d. a pound..." // How does this work out? (John Wheater 2018)

The whole amount due Montague is 4000L, this 1000 is just part of it. So 4000L at 6d a pound=24,000d=100L.

MartinVT  •  Link

to David Smith's 2003 question, "Wife as partner, wife as possession; is it just me, or does Sam care that Montagu appreciates his wife for the sake not so much of her ego as for his?"

Today, Liz visits the Montagues, performs a valuable service for My Lady; has the honor of lunching with My Lord, solo; he exhibits a "just esteem" for her; and at night, she is still happy about the conversation and respect. It might all be a boost for Sam's ego, and for his standing in the eyes of his boss, but I also think that he's happy because she's happy (ie., her ego).

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Suggestion: Instead of typing out the ambiguous "pounds", why don't we type "lbs." -- and if you don't have the "£" symbol on your keyboard, do as Pepys does and type "/.".

(Elsewhere I have found one 'translation' by a non-English person who typed lbs. when the context clearly indicated £. Let's give the foreigners a fighting chance!)

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"Where I found my wife much satisfied with my Lord’s discourse and respect to her ..."

I bet she did. Pepys might remember this day years later. (That's my speculation, not a SPOILER.)

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"An issue with a long history prior to its being listed as a grievance in 1776 in the US Declaration of Independence

"Commons considers Quartering Soldiers."

It wasn't just the corporation of Windsor suffering from the cost of supporting 300 Parlimentary soldiers awaiting discharge.

A couple of other things struck me abour today's Parliamentary debates:
1. Sandwich has avoided attending the House of Lords consistently.
I wonder why -- Hyde is there, Monck is there, his peers are there. It's not good to be missing in action without a good excuse -- like being at sea.

And 2. today Wentworth Dillon, the Earl of Roscommon's petition to have his title and lands restoreds as they were in January, 1649 was introduced. This will effect the course of Pepys' friend's life, Col. Cary Dillon.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…

MartinVT  •  Link

SDS, I think the diary style for pounds, abbreviated, is not a slash "/." but an italic lower case L. Using slashes would add more confusion. I see that many commenters without a proper pound symbol on their keyboard (and without the ability to use italics in comments on this site) are using "l.", non-italicized, and I plan to switch to that going forward.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"Using slashes would add more confusion."

MartinVT, glad you agree about the confusion.

I use the slash as being the closest representation of the text which must use an italic "l". IMAO it's more clear than adding what could be mistaken for a one to the uninitiated.

Whatever -- either way I think these easy changes will help future readers.

Louise Hudson  •  Link

It looks as if, even back in the 1600s, they had ways of screwing “tips” out of people. The practice continues in America.

RLB  •  Link

Slashes for pounds are all the more confusing because historically, it was the normal sign for abbreviating shillings and pence, not pounds. See, for example, the Mad Hatter's label of "In this Style 10/6", meaning ten shillings sixpence. So I agree, let's not.

(For another illustration, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil… ; that theatre was first built three years from the diary's now, and I would not be surprised if later on, Sam mentions seeing a play there.)

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

My only answer to that, RLB, is that Pepys never used that shillings/pense connection during the Diary. I Googled the question and they didn't have an answer as to when it was adopted.
But since no one has said they find the "l" as being confusing, I will adopt your preference.

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