Thursday 14 March 1660/61

With Sir W. Batten and Pen to Mr. Coventry’s, and there had a dispute about my claim to the place of Purveyor of Petty-provisions, and at last to my content did conclude to have my hand to all the bills for these provisions and Mr. Turner to purvey them, because I would not have him to lose the place. Then to my Lord’s, and so with Mr. Creed to an alehouse, where he told me a long story of his amours at Portsmouth to one of Mrs. Boat’s daughters, which was very pleasant.

Dined with my Lord and Lady, and so with Mr. Creed to the Theatre, and there saw “King and no King,” well acted.

Thence with him to the Cock alehouse at Temple Bar, where he did ask my advice about his amours, and I did give him it, which was to enquire into the condition of his competitor, who is a son of Mr. Gauden’s, and that I promised to do for him, and he to make [what] use he can of it to his advantage.

Home and to bed.

23 Annotations

First Reading

Bradford  •  Link

"with Mr. Creed to an alehouse, where he told me a long story of his amours at Portsmouth to one of Mrs. Boat's daughters, which was very pleasant.” —-
“with him to the Cock alehouse at Temple Bar, where he did ask my advice about his amours, and I did give him it”.
Creed and Love? Who’d have thunk it? But he knew where to go for Cupid’s counsel.

Susan  •  Link

An earlier link gave us more information about Mr Gauden (later Sir Dennis Gauden). His old home is now a school for children with special needs. Link to website with map, v. small aerial view and small picture of the house
http://www.treloar.org.uk/school/…

vincent  •  Link

I wonder what the advice was?
"...where he did ask my advice about his amours, and I did give him it..."

one thought from Plautus , Persa, 1-2
Qui amans egens ingressus est princeps in Amoris vias, superavit aerumis suis aerumnas Herculi.
Have money , no money [empy purse]is taking on a huge task , my version.

Mary  •  Link

.. to have my hand to all the bills ..

L&M notes that the Clerk to the Acts had performed these duties in former times, but that as the business grew in volume they had been delegated to others. The 'Admiral's Instructions' of 1662 were to give the Clerk power of supervision over the works

Emilio  •  Link

"he did ask my advice . . . and I did give him it"

The way I read it, his advice was simply to find out about the competition, which Sam then courteously offered to do for him. I imagine the puritanical Creed coming to Sam, in love perhaps for the first time, and completely flummoxed by it. He needs someone to start him off at square one ("So she has another suitor? What do you know about him?"), and Sam is an excellent one to boil things down to their practical essentials.

I also imagine Sam is delighted to have such an intimate window into Creed's life, and happy to take part in moving things along. Tomalin describes (pp. 168-171) how he will later be in heaven when he's entrusted with the preparations for Mrs. Jem's wedding.

Andrew Hamilton  •  Link

"It shew'd discretion, the best part of valor." From A King and no King (1611)

cf:

“The better part of valor is discretion, in the which better part I have saved my life.”
William Shakespeare: Falstaff, in Henry IV, Part 1, act 5, sc. 4, l. 119-20. (1596/7 (?))

I wonder whether this was already a common Elizabethan saw when Shakespeare put it into Sir JOhn Falstaff’s mouth? Possibly with a classical origin?

Brad W  •  Link

Discretion and valor....I wonder whether this was already a common Elizabethan saw when Shakespeare put it into Sir JOhn Falstaff's mouth? Possibly with a classical origin?

Like so many of Falstaff’s lines, I always thought this one was meant to be comedic. To me discretion, the ability to make careful and subtle decisions, is way too contemplative an activity to be associated with courage under fire, which Sir John was discussing.

Besides, in several plays, Falstaff shows himself to be an utter coward, though clever in excusing himself about it, to himself and others. Thus his opinion about valor in this case could probably be counted on to serve as justification for his actions, not as true wisdom.

I’d put this line up there with “This above all, to thine own self be true, and it shall follow as the night unto the day, thou can’st be false to any man,” as one of the most commonly misunderstood Shakespearean lines of all time. Interesting that other playwrights were stealing it as soon at 1611. The context would tell us if they understood it or not.

vincent  •  Link

"…It shew'd discretion, the best part of valor…"
remember the "Times" Free speech is yet to be freely used. Political spectrum runs from extreem, Only the king has the answer to HE is the devil incarnate and for a whisp[h]er, thee would and could be spending your time as a guest of the King. As for Religion many were shopped and chopped. So discretion was definitely the best course of action.

Alan Bedford  •  Link

"It shew'd discretion, the best part of valor."

Hardly a surprise that this line would be similar to Shakespeare, since Fletcher had collaborated with Shakespeare on plays for Shakespeare’s company, The King’s Men.

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

re: Creed and Sam

I find it interesting that these rivals have gotten so close lately. More evidence of Sam's growing self-confidence, perhaps?

Mary  •  Link

Creed and Sam

One possible reason for their recent closeness is that Creed is employing the well-worn political tactic of trying to get yourself into better books with your professional rival by seeking help with a personal and intimate matter. It's a form of flattery that doesn't always work, but can be useful.

The Bishop  •  Link

Almost all Elizabethan writers - including Shakespeare - filled out their books with well-known maxims, usually drawn from classical sources. It wasn't considered unusual. Many insights attributed to Shakespeare were in fact commonplaces that he was expressing anew.

Second Reading

PS  •  Link

vincent: I don't get it!
How do you get from: "...where he did ask my advice about his amours, and I did give him it..."
To: Plautus "... Have money , no money [empy purse]is taking on a huge task..."

Terry Foreman  •  Link

PS: an Edward Boate was Master-Shipwright at Portsmouth until 1650. Other Boates had high positions in other ports (L&M Companion). Perhaps Pepys is asking whether Creed can afford to romance a daughter of this affluent, powerful family? (vincent is off-line at the moment)

Pandora  •  Link

Does anyone know if this is the same "Ye Olde Cock Tavern" that is still on Fleet Street in a Tudor building?

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"With Sir W. Batten and Pen to Mr. Coventry’s, and there had a dispute about my claim to the place of Purveyor of Petty-provisions, and at last to my content did conclude to have my hand to all the bills for these provisions and Mr. Turner to purvey them, because I would not have him to lose the place. "

Cf. http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… and
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Mary posted [corrected]: "L&M note that the Clerk to the Acts had performed these duties in former times, but that as the business grew in volume they had been delegated to others. The 'Admiral's Instructions' of 1662 were to give the Clerk power of supervision over the work." cf: http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… and
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

Third Reading

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"With Sir W. Batten and Pen to Mr. Coventry’s, and there had a dispute about my claim to the place of Purveyor of Petty-provisions, and at last to my content did conclude to have my hand to all the bills for these provisions and Mr. Turner to purvey them, because I would not have him to lose the place."

It sounds to me as if Pepys was under the impression he had last year paid Mr. Turner for his entire position with the Navy Board. But now he has discovered that Mr. Turner was holding back on this one duty, which probably carried some financial rewards.
It sounds as if Pepys now insisted on processing the paperwork so that by the time Turner retires, he would know who provides what, and how to seeminglessly pick up those duties. Transparency is the point.

If Pepys had pushed this further, the Sir Williams would probably have supported Mr. Turner, and Pepys would have made 3 enemies in the office.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Ameeican Google insists that when I type "Petty Provisions" I want to know about "Petty Offenses". Does anyone have any idea what a Petty Provision is?

Jeremy Buck  •  Link

How nice that ar least one of the taverns mentioned in the Diary can still be visited. Ye Olde Cock Tavern is still in business at 22 Fleet Street, although I believe the current building dates from the 1880s and has moved across the street from its original site..

Eric the Bish  •  Link

Petty provisions.

By analogy with “Petty Officer” which derives from the French “petite” – little – I am guessing they are some of the myriad of miscellaneous small/infrequently used items which are required to keep a ship in a position to float, move and fight.

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