Sunday 9 June 1661

(Lord’s day). This day my wife put on her black silk gown, which is now laced all over with black gimp lace, as the fashion is, in which she is very pretty.

She and I walked to my Lady’s at the Wardrobe, and there dined and was exceeding much made of. After dinner I left my wife there, and I walked to Whitehall, and then went to Mr. Pierce’s and sat with his wife a good while (who continues very pretty) till he came, and then he and I, and Mr. Symons (dancing master), that goes to sea with my Lord, to the Swan tavern, and there drank, and so again to White Hall, and there met with Dean Fuller, and walked a great while with him; among other things discoursed of the liberty the Bishop (by name the of Galloway) takes to admit into orders any body that will; among others, Roundtree, a simple mechanique that was a person [parson ?] formerly in the fleet. He told me he would complain of it. By and by we went and got a sculler, and landing him at Worcester House, I and W. Howe, who came to us at Whitehall, went to the Wardrobe.

Where I met with Mr. Townsend, who is very willing he says to communicate anything for my Lord’s advantage to me as to his business. I went up to Jane Shore’s towre, and there W. Howe and I sang, and so took my wife and walked home, and so to bed. After I came home a messenger came from my Lord to bid me come to him tomorrow morning.

29 Annotations

First Reading

daniel  •  Link

i am curious whether this Mr Symons, said dancing master, is to be used in that capacity when he goes to sea with Montagu.

Pauline  •  Link

"... laced all over with black gimp lace..."

From OED: The coarser thread which forms the outline of the design...[The pattern of lace depends] partly upon the introduction of a thicker thread, called gymp, which is used for the formation of figures, flowers, and other ornaments.

Of course Elizabeth cares to look great for our Lady Sandwich, but I wonder if she also had in mind that Sam would be running into Elizabeth Pearse today?

vicente  •  Link

a nice way of say she was fussed "...was exceeding much made of..."

Pauline  •  Link

"said dancing master...used in that capacity when he goes to sea with Montagu?"

Daniel, the L&M Companion lists three Symons:

Thomas, surgeon "to Alured's regiment (formerly Mountagu's);

Will, Commonwealth-era clerk, nephew of Henry Scobell--catch this lovely quote--"no doubt the fact that he was the nephew of his uncle was of less than no advantage to him in 1660"; and

[no first name] Symonds, the dancing master.

If the parenthetic 'dancing master' is straight from the diary, it must be this last one.

Australian Susan  •  Link

"...and there W. Howe and I sang"
I wonder if they went up the tower specifically to sing? A large, empty, high-ceilinged stone chamber would probably have an excellent acoustic.
If he had been interested in going up the tower to see where she was held, surely he would have recorded something about the lady? Even if they only decided to sing when they got there, it's a lovely image - as is the picture of Montagu (or others) practising dance steps on a heaving and rolling deck!

vicente  •  Link

J.Evelyn mentions a bishop of Galloway [Scotland] that was "...the Bishop (by name the of Galloway) takes to admit into orders any body that will;..." Most Reverend Gavin Hamilton , Bishop of Galloway. if the same then is an interesting family history, Mixed up with the Montroses?
He, in other words will consecrate any moving body to fill the Parishes for brain washing.

vicente  •  Link

"...Roundtree, a simple mechanique that was a person [parson ?] formerly in the fleet...." Roundtree not an inspiring preacher , I take.
"...He told me he would complain of it..."
Do I understand that Dean Fuller would speak up, I wonder to whom [the Bishop of ?]and would he then have the Parson defrocked.?

Roger Arbor  •  Link

"Brain washing"... I think Vincente's prejudices are showing. Remember the old saw, "Ignorance is arrogant". If Galloway did 'admit into orders any body that will', they could hardly be very effective at "brain washing" could they?.

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"and Mr.Symons(dansing Master),that goes to sea with Mylord" may be he was a "gentleman companion";years later when Darwin went around the world with the "Beagle" he went in that capacity,not as a scientist.

Rex Gordon  •  Link

"...a parson formerly in the Fleete."

L&M: I.e., in the Fleet (debtors')prison; or in the surrounding area where prisoners were allowed to reside. Ralph Roundtree on 6 June had been appointed chaplain of the Breda: PRO, Adm. 2/1745, f45r. Sydserff of Galloway, the only Scottish bishop to survive the interregnum, was now in London angling (in vain) for advancement to the primacy of Scotland. Burnet (i, 236) tells how his reputation suffered from these indiscriminate ordinations.

A nice advancement for Roundtree: from the Fleete to the fleet, indeed.

A. Hamilton  •  Link

Jane Shore's towre

Where was the tower? I assume its not The Tower of London, altough Jane Shore’s biograqphy suggests it might be. Anyone know?

Jenny Doughty  •  Link

I am struck by Elizabeth's best dress being black. At one time I thought of black as a Puritan colour, but I am currently reading an interesting book called 'Albion's Seed: four British folkways in America', which is a very detailed history of how the first four waves of British immigrants in the seventeenth century fared in different parts of the continent.

In the section on New England, it talks about Puritan dress, and apparently the chosen mode of dress was 'sadd' or sober colours such as dark greens and browns and greys, whereas black was thought to be too strong or striking a colour and was only used by the rather wealthy - for example some of the early governors were shown wearing black.

So Elizabeth's choice of colour for her gown is another indication of Sam's striving for upward mobility!

vicente  •  Link

"Vincente's prejudices are showing” Carl Marks, Janisseris and the Jesuits did say and practice that “give me your babes [from the creche] , and We will have them for the rest of life. If not, so why spend billions on Advertising and fight to control the media of print and airwaves.

vicente  •  Link

Bishop of Galloway, Mis-read [ sorry] J. Evelyns notes. Sydserff was mentioned for Thomas 1635 [for Galloway], of Orkney 1662. Mentioned June 5th 1650.Paris "... The Bishop of Galloway Officiating, with greate Gravity, after a pious & learned Extortion,declaring the weight & Dignatie of the their function, especially now in a time, the poor Church of Englands affliction:..." p288 E.S. De Beer. diary of J.Evelyn.
In Paris, about the Church of Englands Ordinations. Interesting reading. The current Lord Mayor of the City [Browne]provided the chapel in Paris to Ordinate Deacons and Priests as their were so few Bishops left in England.
De Beer is very interesting reading of the Interregum. unfortunatley this segment not on the web. Reading this helps to explain why to days statement, Recruiting was low during the interregum, now opportunities of advancment and Income became feasable again, not everyone had a vocation[to improve the lot of Human kind], just an eye on the future.

Wim van der Meij  •  Link

- (by name he of Galloway) -
Warrington has: "Murray and Heath, whose authority is generally good, assert that James Hamilton was at this time bishop of Galloway; but the commission of his consecration bears date 12th December 1661. Kennett also mentions Thomas Sydserf who had been deposed from the see of Galloway by the Presbyterians in 1640, as the only Scotch prelate alive at the Restoration. Lingard's testimony is in favour of Sydserf being the Bishop of Galloway here alluded to."
It is also funny he says: "he of Galloway" i.s.o. "the of Galloway".

vicente  •  Link

James Hamilton, that was that lead I initially followed. It shows that there was a lot of problems beween the various groups, each vieing for the Kings ok and the Houses of Parliament, common and lordly, Blessings. At least there were no fisticuffs. They were tired of strife after 20 years of Interregnum and interclerical differences, at least there was always the land of open frontiers to practice ones beliefes and prejudices, and seeking of fortunes. It was said that one had sons to provide the funds for the goldern years, one to follow each of the possible rich making schemes, navy , army, church,trade [Merchant sounds nicer]and scrounger. Can't Do, teach,if not that, then Preach, else leech [not doctoring, or leach]]

dirk  •  Link

"He told me he would complain of it..."

Vince, I read it he would complain about the bishop rather than about Roundtree - who's mentioned here merely as an example of how far the bishop went. It seems much more important to put the bishop straight than sack poor Roundtree. Of course the latter may lose his position as a result of this - *if* dean Fuller's intervention is successful that is...

Cfr. the original phrasing in today's diary entry:
"discoursed of the liberty the Bishop (by name the of Galloway) takes to admit into orders any body that will; among others, Roundtree"

vicente  •  Link

I read that Roundtree as one of those not overly knowledgeable or saintly. Two thirds of the clerics did not have a formal degreed education. [Reading of C.Hill and Liza Picard]. Dean Fuller was one that was very well educated and refined and wanted to raise the level of competence for the Church of E., thats the delight of Sam's scriblings, one gets a taste of of life in all its facits.

Sjoerd  •  Link

According to "The Portcullis and the Owl" by J.B. Pickerill "Jane Shore ... occupied an apartement in the Great Wardrobe" and it is remarkable that she entered folk memory to such an extent that Pepys would report this nearly two hundred years later.

http://www.mgs.org/images/Extra!/…

Australian Susan  •  Link

Scottish Episcopal Church History:
See my link above, which summarises the rather complex problems in Scotland's Church in the 17th century.

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Yes Sjoerd, "Jane Shore ... occupied an apartement in the Great Wardrobe" when, say L&M, Edward IV used its building as a royal residence; but concerning her association with a specific tower there, little seems to be known,

Bill  •  Link

Regarding the information of Wim above about the Bishop of Galloway, here is the complete note:

Murray and Heath, whose authority is generally good, assert that James Hamilton was at this time Bishop of Galloway; but the commission for his consecration bears date 12th December, 1661. Kennett also mentions Thomas Sydserf, who had been deposed from the see of Galloway by the Presbyterians in 1638, as the only Scotch prelate alive at the Restoration; and adds, that he came up to London, expecting to be advanced to the Primacy. But he had so disgusted the English bishops, that he was only removed to the See of Orkney, which, though richly endowed, was considered at all times as a sinecure; and he did not long survive his translation. At all events, Hamilton was his successor, and the Bishop of Galloway mentioned in the Diary, 15th May, 1663. Lingard's testimony is in favour of Sydserf being the Bishop of Galloway here alluded to. The death of the Bishop of Orkney (late of Galloway) is mentioned in The Intelligencer, 29th September, 1663.
---Diary and correspondence of Samuel Pepys, the diary deciphered by J. Smith. 1854.

Third Reading

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

L&M: Thomas [SYMONS], surgeon "to Alured's regiment (formerly Montagu's);

"... on the 4th of January 1660, L&M noted a reference to "my Lord's troop" with the following "Appointed to the command of a regiment of horse in September 1659, Montagu had been dismissed on the fall of Richard Cromwell in the following spring. His men were now commanded by Col. Matthew Alured, but Pepys (who has taken on as colonel's secretary without performing any function - a fairly common practice) ... still referred to the regiment as 'my Lord's'."

Col. Matthew Alured MP doesn't have a Pepys Encyclopedia page, so I put in a couple of posts about his 1659/60 activities at
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Taking a dancing master to sea -- well, this is a special trip. If the Portuguese courtiers know the latest dances, Sandwich and his captains must be able to match them.
If, on the other hand, the Infanta Katerina doesn't know the latest dances, here's something they can share with her which will be useful when she arrives, which can easily be done during their months at sea.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

SYDSERFF, THOMAS (1581–1663), bishop of Galloway, born in 1581, the eldest son of James Sydserff, merchant, Edinburgh
He was educated at Edinburgh University, and graduated M.A. on 22 Feb. 1602
His first charge was St. Giles, Edinburgh, to which he was admitted on 30 May 1611; when the city was reconstituted ecclesiastically in 1626 he was translated to Trinity College church
He was one of the bishops and ministers hwho met at Holyrood on 30 June 1633 to discuss the introduction of the English prayer-book. Sydserff advocated the measure, and in 1634 was made dean of Edinburgh. In that year he was removed to the high church, Edinburgh. This position he held for a few months; on the recommendation of Archbishop Laud he was promoted to the bishopric of Brechin, and consecrated on 29 July 1634.
On 21 Oct. 1634 he was admitted burgess of Dundee ‘for his services to the Commonweal,’ and made a member of the Court of High Commission.
He exercised his powers with rigor, and in 1637 had high words with Lord Lorne for sentencing one of his followers to a fine and imprisonment.
His appointment to the see of Galloway was signed by King Charles on 30 Aug. 1635, and he was installed in Nov.
The active part he took in the establishment of prelacy and his intimacy with Laud made him a target for the violence by Presbyterians. The introduction of the service-book made him very unpopular
At Stirling in Feb. 1638 he was attacked by a Presbyterian mob; the intervention of the magistrates stopped severe injury
A few days later he was assaulted in the streets of Falkirk, Dalkeith, and Edinburgh. On 13 Dec. 1638 he was formally deposed and excommunicated by the general assembly.

After his deposition Sydserff joined Charles I, and was with him at Newcastle in 1645
The overthrow of King Charles led to his retirement, and he remained in seclusion until after the Restoration

When episcopacy was re-established in Scotland he was promoted to the bishopric of Orkney in 1661, being the only survivor of the bishops deposed in 1638

He died at Edinburgh on 29 Sept. 1663

He married, on 27 April 1614, Rachel, daughter of John Byers, an Edinburgh magistrate. By her he had 4 sons and 4 daughters

One of the sons was Thomas Sydserff, a popular dramatist, and the compiler of ‘Mercurius Caledonius,’ the first newspaper printed in Scotland

Keith describes the bishop as ‘a learned and worthy prelate,’ and Bishop Burnet alludes to him (under the name of ‘Saintserf’) in complimentary terms in his ‘History of his own Time.’
His name appears several times in the presbyterian lampoons of the period (see Maidment, Book of Scottish Pasquils).
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Di…

Bishop Sydserff doesn't sound like a disaffected Royalist bishop who ordained unqualified non-conformist criminals.
Maybe Roundtree was a man fallen on unfortunate times, and Sandwich was giving him a deserved second chance.

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