Saturday 5 October 1661

At the office all the morning, then dined at home, and so staid at home all the afternoon putting up my Lord’s model of the Royal James, which I borrowed of him long ago to hang up in my room. And at night Sir W. Pen and I alone to the Dolphin, and there eat some bloat-herrings and drank good sack. Then came in Sir W. Warren and another and staid a while with us, and then Sir Arnold Brames, with whom we staid late and till we had drank too much wine. So home and I to bed pleased at my afternoon’s work in hanging up the shipp. So to bed.

32 Annotations

First Reading

john lauer  •  Link

"So ... to bed ... So to bed."
Direct result of "... we had drank too much wine.".

vicente  •  Link

Royall James was the spelling, I am led to believe. [all king?]
During the 1650s the navy began to order wooden scale models of all ships under construction. These were usually 48 times smaller than the real ship and were perfect in every detail.
In 1661 Pepys borrowed Lord Mountagu's model of the Royall James to hang in his room now we see he then restores it to His Lords room [at this date]after studying the model to make him more conversive with the building of ships he has his grammar so he takes his work very seriously too:
Notice does tell all one has to read between the lines.
P.S. the model has not survived.

Mary  •  Link

Where does the model hang?

According to my reading (and that of L&M) Pepys is hanging this model in his own room, not any room belonging to Sandwich. In other words, he has decided to keep this model on a very long loan indeed; it's now part of the furnishings as well as serving as a professional aide-memoire.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

Sam's collection grows...Though I'm surprised he took so long to get the model hung up in his "closet". I doubt Montague will be seeing his model returned any time in the near future.

Another night out with Penn...All in all the old sea dog seems to like the eager little clerk, perhaps the shared interest in music?

Pedro.  •  Link

Yarmouth Bloaters.

About 100 miles ENE of Brampton is the holiday resort of Great Yarmouth, and once great fishing port, famous for its bloaters. Nowadays the herring industry is in rapid decline.
At one time holidaymakers would ask for Yarmouth bloaters to be sent home, to arrive the next day, instead of a postcard. (Maybe Vincente will remember this?)

Stolzi  •  Link

I feel it very fortunate that he got the ship-model hung up BEFORE getting blotto today. (Horrid visions of askewness, sagging, crashing fall, disaster, catastrophe, matchwood)

vicente  •  Link

bloaters nay, broads yea:

Grahamt  •  Link

Oh yes, I had forgotten about that.
Photography was not encouraged in the exhibition, so the lighting isn't too good as I couldn't use flash

vicente  •  Link

I misread the hanging & [mis]appropriation ["...which I borrowed of him long ago to hang up in my room..."]of model { reading elsewhere, it[model]} was in his [Sam's] possession, according to a source, to end of his life.

Glyn  •  Link

Hmm ... Graham - when you say that "photography was not encouraged" do I take it to mean that that is a euphemism and it was, in fact, forbidden? and that this was the action of a hardened criminal?

Can anyone tell us when the model of the Royal James was borrowed from Montagu? I've attempted to use the search function but always get an error message telling me that there is already a search underway.

Glyn  •  Link

I suppose this photo by Barbara Howard on the site's photo album is also of the Royal James since this is where it was sunk!

http://www.smartgroups.com/pictur…

But why would anyone name a pub after a defeat, or at best a tie? (Sorry for the length of the link.)

Wim van der Meij  •  Link

It is possible that the model of the Royal James was half a ship. In Holland in the 17th century shipbuilders had half models to build a big ship from: the first half of a ship is exactly the same as the other half. That would explain the hanging of the model. A complete shipmodel does not invite one to 'hang' it.

vicente  •  Link

My understanding; the Royall James was burnt to the gun ports, in the Thames then rebuilt as another ship?? at a later date.[waste not, want not]
As for the English wisdom of a getting a thrashing, is to return and give a trashing, then mark it on the battle flag. Lose a battle and win the war, 'tis better than win the battle and lose the war. There is a comment to that effect in the Inter regnum that one could not lose a one battle with the King ,it was to the gallows ye go, no matter how many other battles ye won.['tis like life itself]

Mary  •  Link

In answer to Glyn's question.....

the model of the Royal James appears to have been acquired by Pepys on 14th June 1661.

Grahamt  •  Link

Glyn; got it in one ;-)

Kevin Peter  •  Link

I take it that although the model belonged to Sandwich, it was one of those possessions that he had no particular use for. I might have been ignored or put in storage if Pepys hadn't asked for it.

It's probably more like a gift from Sandwich's and Pepys' point of view, except if Sandwich sees some use for it in the future, he can get it back.

Since Pepys had it for the rest of his life, apparently Sandwich wasn't ever interested in seeing it again.

Second Reading

John G  •  Link

I think vincente means 'conversant'.

Third Reading

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

From Sandwich's log, in the Atlantic:

October 5. Saturday.
At 9 o'clock in the morning the Cape St. Vincent bore of us N.E. by N. about 8 leagues off.

Copied from
The Journal of Edward Mountagu,
First Earl of Sandwich
Admiral and General-at-Sea 1659 - 1665

Edited by RC Anderson
Printed for the Navy Records Society
MDCCCCXXIX

Section III - Mediterranean 1661/62

@@@

Cape St. Vincent -- https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…

LKvM  •  Link

"Another night out with Penn... All in all the old sea dog seems to like the eager little clerk, perhaps the shared interest in music?"
No, Robert Gertz, i don't think it is the shared interest in music. I think Sam has that almost ineffable attribute of charm or charisma that makes people enjoy his company.
When he was first associated with the Navy Office, look how many times Penn and Batten took him out in the afternoon and evening. It seems to me that they were thrilled to have a new associate with a great personality. Sam is the life of every party!
Lord and Lady Sandwich are always delighted to see him, as are (spoiler) many wenches.
We all know special people like this and wish we had whatever-it-is that makes them so popular and welcome everywhere.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"Another night out with Penn... All in all the old sea dog seems to like the eager little clerk, perhaps the shared interest in music?"

I agree, LKvM and Robert Gertz, that Pepys was charming and good company, and a good musician, but I also think Penn and Batten had decided to keep him foxed and busy anywhere but in the office for as long as they could. They also knew him to be smart, and quite capable of figuring out their scams and kick-backs, and when that day came he would presumably want his cut.

Charles Miller  •  Link

Ref Vincent’s comments 6.10.2004 “the model [of Royal James] has not survived”

I’m happy to report that it does survive - but was only rediscovered around the time he wrote that. It’s now beautifully restored and on loan to the Peabody Essex in the US - correctly rigged and with gilt carved work. I tried to find a link but failed.

JB  •  Link

There is a small photo of the model on this page. Click directly on it to make it larger.

https://journalofantiques.com/col…

"The Royal James, 1st Rate Ship of the Line, 1668–71
Sir Anthony Deane 1638–1721, United Kingdom
Fruitwood, silk, brass, and mica Kriegstein Collection
Courtesy of the Peabody Essex Museum

This depiction of the Royal James is an “Admiralty model,” a model made by British naval architects in the 17th and 18th century to display their prowess and to inspire commissions, like maritime salesman’s samples. The goal, therefore, was to make miniature scale models as impressive as possible to showcase the architect’s skill, and the Royal James does not disappoint. It is adorned with extravagant flourishes and gilding and was so enticing that King Charles I funded the construction of a full-sized version of the ship. Deane must have delivered because he became the only English shipbuilder to be knighted for his services. The Royal James was the first Royal Navy vessel to be built with iron as a part of her frame, a revolutionary and controversial decision that wouldn’t become the norm until nearly fifty years later."

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

What you say about the model, JB, is no doubt correct.

But when you start talking about HMS Royal James proper, I think you're talking about the second or, even more likely, the third one which sailed during Pepys' tenure with the Navy.

✹ dirk on 6 Oct 2004 says in our Encyclopedia page on the subject:
Royal James:

Actually there were three navy ships with the name "Royal James" in the 17th c. The annotation above refers to ..., not the one Sam is referring to in his entry for 5 October [1661].

1. "Richard" (Second Rate)
built by Christopher Pett (Woolwich 1658), renamed "Royal James" after the Restoration, burnt by the Dutch in 1667.
[THIS IS THE ONE WHICH EXISTED IN 1661, AND HAS THE WRONG BUILDER]

2. "Royal James" (100-Gun Ship)
built by Deane (Portsmouth 1671), burnt during action in 1672.

3. "Royal James" (First Rate)
built, on Pepys' instructions, by Deane (Portsmouth 1675), renamed "Victory" in 1691; then rebuilt in 1695.
[MY VOTE FOR YOUR ROYAL JAMES]
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…

Charles Miller  •  Link

San Diego Sarah is correct - and my apologies for leading JB down an alley, it is the 1675 Royal James represented by the model on loan to Peabody. This is also the model that Pepys loaned to St Paul’s school and was deeply miffed by the way the boys treated it! Latterly it was in the RUSI museum but went missing for 70 years or so before being found in a locked chest!

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

So Pepys had models of 2 Royal James ships. He is hanging a model of the first today.
How naughty of the boys to mishandle his second model -- I'd lock it up in a trunk for safe keeping as well!

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