Bob T on 30 Oct 2004  •  Link

and we walked together to Deptford.

This is a very long walk. Why did they waste so much time when they could have hired horses on the south side? Would they have been headed to what I knew as Deptford Creek?

dirk on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"Sir Henry Vane, Lambert, and others, are lately sent suddenly away from the Tower, prisoners to Scilly; but I do not think there is any plot as is said"

A plot? Does anyone have any more background info on this?

dirk on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

Doll

First reference to Doll was on sunday 8 September, when in the afternoon, after church service, "coming home again found our new maid Doll asleep, that she could not hear to let us in, so that we were fain to send the boy in at a window to open the door to us".

We don't seem to know much about Doll, when she was hired, whether she was young and pretty, nor anything else really. There's no background info on her yet.

dirk on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"Sir R. Slingsby's … pretending that the corps stinks, they will bury it to-night privately”

Something strange is going on here. Seems his own family wants him out of the way as quickly as possible, without proper burial. Why? Could there be a connection with the “plot” above?

David A. Smith on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"shew me every hole and corner of the ship, much to my information"
Here is that restless insatiable curiosity come to the fore: fiddling with his theorbo at lunch, then into the bowels of the boat.
Sam is from the Yogi Berra School of Management: "You can observe a lot just by watching."
A useful trait, seen many times already. Inferential spolier alert!

David A. Smith on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"by being forced to keep more servants, which brings trouble"
More challenges of a hot updraft trajectory -- you have to swell the household to cope with the bigger house, and the managerial span of control broadens.
Sam, my boy, soon you're going to need a capable assistant ....

Bradford on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

Sam sees "the inconvenience that do attend the increase of a man's fortune by being forced to keep more servants, which brings trouble”—-that it’s as much work to make others do things the way you want them as to do them yourself, but you are now So Busy making the money to hire the servants that you can’t do the things yourself, but must hire the servants to do that which you are Too Busy to . . . never mind. If one does not have a managerial personality, perhaps a humbler life might be in order?

“and so will unbespeak all their guests”: a wonderful phrase which could still be put to use today, especially if the guest list winds up with an inadvisable mixture of folks.
(Viz., imagine the arguments about The Election going on at Halloween parties across America even as I type. Historical Color.)

vicente on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

an old saw: one servant much work done[please the mrs] Two servants, half a job done . Three servants much mischief.

vicente on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"...We don't seem to know much about Doll, when she was hired, whether she was young and pretty…” if she not be cute then Mrs. may be pleased but the Master would not be pleased unless she be good for cleaning out the house under stairs. If she be shapely of legg then she be upstairs maid and then Mrs., may not be pleased, which seems to be the case, she got away with being deaf [indicating that she doth have a nice wink].The other wenches, it doth seem, be a bit put out, [“…she cannot keep her peace…”]or is it just old fashion lipp. Or is it a case of “Marm, the Master likes his back being scratched in the lower lumbar region it must be scratch real good “.The master would would never take an ugley wenches side, so she aint without assets. I can see Sam saying “dear, she be young and we must be patient” [Sam putting eye balls back in]or Lizzy ” It is very hard to get good help, look how many we had to look over, remember the one whose mother said she would only stay 6 months, they be so independant these days.”
Sam still is keeping some secrets , when he reads this over later, his memory will over flow.

vicente on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"...and we walked together to Deptford..." lots of questions would be asked and answered in this pleasant stroll, so much will be accomplished this way rather than being a stuffy conference room on the 'Bosses' turf. All the best Decisions are made in business world on neutral turf and in pleasant surroundings.['tis why Coffee houses were a success]
"..."shew me every hole and corner of the ship, much to my information"..."
Every Genius and truly succeessful Executive asks and listens, then he can execute the best action. Tis one of the main reasons Airplanes shuttle the leaders over billions of miles to get an eyeball. This only way one can find out who Knows wot and WHO can do the carry out the commission.
Ears came months before mouth.

JWB on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"...pretending..."
Well, Slingsby did die Sat. the 26th. Sam writes that he admired the man as uncorrupted. Perhaps he thought him uncorruptable.

Pauline on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

Perhaps he thought him uncorruptable.
JWB, you are naughty.
Sam also says "I fear he hath left his family in great distraction." So perhaps the quick and unexpected death of a man as well-respected and loved by his family as by Sam has left things in a dither and certain basic expediencies have taken over.

Mary on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"said she would stay only six months"

Maids (according to L&M Companion) were normally employed on a monthly basis. This is why it seemed so impertinent for the previous applicant to demand a six-month contract.

Lawrence on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

The prisoners were shipped on the 25th-Vane to the Scillies, Lambert to Guernsey, Corbet and Waller to Jersey:
The scare was caused by the Worcestershire or Yarranton Plot. L&M

David A. Smith on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"all things out of order, and no such thing done to-night"
Responding to Dirk, I agree with Pauline on the Occam's Razor explanation. Sir Robert was a healthy, successful, capable man; his sudden death has left his family in grief and confusion, unable to arrange a proper reception and viewing. So they invent an exculpatory white lie ("the corpse stinks") that lets them politely but briskly turn away the callers.

David A. Smith on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"I do not think there is any plot as is said, but only a pretence"
Via Google (my distillation, read the whole thing):
Andrew Yarranton, born Worcestershire 1616. Parliamentary Army in the war; 1648 frustrated a Royalist plan to seize Doyley House in Hereford, rewarded with £500.
By 1652 back as an ironmonger. Busily worked on improving navigation, surveying rivers at his own cost.
“Whether through envy or enmity Yarranton's activity excited the suspicion of the authorities. His journeys from place to place seemed to them to point to some Presbyterian plot on foot.”
On 13 Nov 1660, arrested by Lord Windsor, Lord-Lieutenant of the county, ‘for refusing to obey my authority.’ Must have lain in prison until escaping in May, 1662.
Recaptured within a month, but shortly after is “at liberty, publicly occupied in carrying out his plans for improving the navigation of the western rivers.
“A few years later he published in London a 4to. tract entitled "A Full Discovery of the First Presbyterian Sham Plot," which most probably contained a vindication of his conduct.”
http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/agen…

David A. Smith on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"as there was once pretended often against the Cavaliers"
Reading Yarranton's life story, I am struck at how similar in many ways it is to Sam's, but for accident of age and place -- the same enterprise, the same commitment, the same political odyssey, the same interest in waterways.

vicente on 31 Oct 2004  •  Link

"Maids (according to L&M Companion) were normally employed on a monthly basis". According to Liza Picard P176 the contract was for 1 yr as the Mistress had to provide the "[french maid?]" outfit. Many absconded with silver and outfit. Servants had no security, could be dumped at the whim of the Mistress. Nice reading pages 175-179. There is a nice ad for missing wench and her trophies.

Nix on 1 Nov 2004  •  Link

"and so will unbespeak all their guests"

Here is the OED entry on "unbespeak":

v. trans. To countermand; to cancel an order or request for.

1661 PEPYS Diary 30 Oct., Pretending that the corps stinks, they will bury it to-night privately, and so will unbespeak all their guests. 1693 Let. in Academy 9 Aug. (1890) 109/3 You will force me elce to..unbespeake ye continuance of a Kindenesse I cannot repay. 1740 GARRICK Lying Valet 1, I can immediately run back and unbespeak what I have order'd. 1743 MRS. DELANY in Life & Corr. (1861) II. 207 He says he has not strength to perform the journey. The lodgings are unbespoke, the coach forbid.

Todd Bernhardt on 1 Nov 2004  •  Link

re: David, Pauline and Occam's Razor

"Sir Robert was a healthy, successful, capable man; his sudden death has left his family in grief and confusion, unable to arrange a proper reception and viewing."

OR ... is it possible that "but I fear he hath left his family in great distraction" means that he left a great many debts and other problems unknown to his family? Which puts them at their wits' ends, and renders them unable to pay for a proper funeral?

Your Satanic attorney,
Todd

Terry Foreman on 21 Apr 2014  •  Link

"I do not think there is any plot as is said, but only a pretence" -- the details from the DNB, Vol. 63, p. 285

At the Restoration Yarranton was thrown into prison by the lord lieutenant of Worcestershire ‘for refusing his lordship's authority.’ He was free in November 1661, when he was compromised by the discovery of some letters relating to an intended presbyterian rising. On 16 Nov. a message was sent from London ordering his arrest, and in May 1662 ‘the escape of Andrew Yarranton, a person dangerous to the government, from the custody of the provost marshal,’ was reported from Worcester [cf. art. Pakington, Sir John, (1620–1680)]. After ‘meetings with several disaffected persons,’ he went up to London, where a warrant was issued for his re-apprehension. He is subsequently described as being ‘as violent a villain against the king as any in those parts.’

In a full account of the affair published by Yarranton in 1681, he declares that the compromising letters were forged; that after he had been imprisoned some five months an account of the fraud was made known to his wife, and by her communicated to himself; that he then publicly denounced the imposture and was released, went up to London ‘to acquaint the king with the great wrong he had received,’ was arrested, but immediately released; returned to Worcester, and within six months was a third time arrested on a new charge of ‘having spoken treasonable words against the king.’ ‘The witnesses were one Dainty (a mountebank, formerly an apothecary of Derby), who afterwards acknowledged that he had 5l. for his pains; the other witness lived in Wales, and went by two names. This was done at the assizes of Worcester; the bill being found by the grand jury, Mr. Yarranton put himself upon his trial, and tho' he did not except against any one of his jury, yet upon a full hearing of his case they presently acquitted him’ (Yarranton, Full Discovery of the First Presbyterian Sham Plot, 1681). https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ya…

Bill on 21 Oct 2014  •  Link

"I am sorry to find my wife displeased with her maid Doll"

Doll was hired on 10 August and (spoiler alert) will soon be fired.

Sasha Clarkson on 30 Oct 2014  •  Link

"... a bottle or two of wine ... " They may not have been that big.

http://www.fireoflondon.org.uk/ar…

LKvM on 30 Oct 2024  •  Link

Re Bradford above in 2004:
"(Viz., imagine the arguments about The Election going on at Halloween parties across America even as I type. Historical Color.)"
Yes, some things never change, and the arguments are going on again in the US, with even more vehemence than twenty years ago.

San Diego Sarah on 31 Oct 2024  •  Link

"Sir Henry Vane, Lambert, and others, are lately sent suddenly away from the Tower, prisoners to Scilly; but I do not think there is any plot as is said, but only a pretence; as there was once pretended often against the Cavaliers."

The Venetian Ambassador had a different opinion:

"Besides the plot of the fanatics reported others have been discovered in the present week, not only of persons without employment but in the army of General Monk itself, gradually gaining strength in wavering minds, and if God had not brought it to light it might have caused a breach most difficult to repair.
"The aim of all these machinations was to kindle a fresh civil war for the total overthrow of the monarchy and the episcopal faith. The Presbyterians and others who imagine this destruction think themselves meritorious and doing God's service, so much are they blinded by the devil, not realising the error of plotting against their natural prince and country.
"When the king heard of it he immediately devoted himself with the Council to devising suitable remedies, ordering the arrest of divers persons, including 5 colonels, a lieutenant colonel, a major and a captain, all of the land forces now in the metropolis and some from Monk's own companies. They have been sent to prison and are carefully guarded. (fn. 1)

"At Hertford some colonels have been arrested (fn. 2) who had a secret understanding with those of London, who were removing soldiers from their garrisons on flimsy pretexts and filling their places with evil men, thus forming garrisons suitable for their evil intentions to surprise the governors at the same time that their correspondents in London had fired the mine.

"This was discovered only six hours before it was to take effect, and so once again England has been preserved from these evil influences, but she will be often subject to other attacks and cannot count on being exempt until Lambert is removed from the world and other turbulent spirits, who though confined in the Tower never cease to labour secretly with their fellow sectaries to rekindle an inextinguishable fire in these realms, in the confidence that they are inspired by Heaven and cannot end their days well except by such barbarous and horrid acts.
"Parliament had passed an act (fn. 3) for weeding out of all towns and other places the mayors, aldermen and councillors appointed during the tyranny of Cromwell and other usurpers, whose entire obedience to his Majesty was doubtful, as if they acccepted him they did so by force to imitate the others and not from natural instinct and a sense of duty. They are putting the act into execution, but in some places have encountered serious difficulties, and it cannot be said as yet to be completely fulfilled.
"In London it seems that seven aldermen have been expelled besides other officials of lower rank."

San Diego Sarah on 31 Oct 2024  •  Link

REPORT CONTINUED IN A LATER REPORT:

"Besides those reported last week some others have been imprisoned, not only in London, but in several parts of the realm, as accomplices in the conspiracy discovered last week. Among them are many who were great in Cromwell's time, and pardoned by his Majesty's excessive indulgence, have forgotten the favour, abusing the royal clemency by plotting fresh confusion, for which they may pay with their lives before long, as is only right. Considering that the leaders of the sectaries who have been a long while under arrest, can only serve as an instrument to procure fresh disturbances, whether they are confined or free, and supposing that their relegation can only be useful to the interests of the crown, they have recently taken from the Tower Lambert, Vene, Cobbett and Waller, the last a disturber of the peace in Ireland, and sent them by ships of war to the islands adjacent to this kingdom under good guard, (fn. 5) where at a great distance from each other without any communication and with no paper, pens or ink they can only plot with themselves. Wise men think that they have been sent so far off that they may be put out of the way without noise or notice."

FOOTNOTES:
1. Colonels Packer, Streater, Wielks, Litcot and Kenrick; Lt.-Col. Read, Major Gladman and Capt. Chaffin, all committed to the Gatehouse. Mercurius Politicus Oct. 17–24.
2. Only one colonel, named Markham, is mentioned in the Mercurius Politicus (Ibid.), as having been arrested at Hertford.
3. Act for the regulation of corporations.
4. Proclamation of 21st October, o.s., that no fairs or markets may be held in churchyards. Mercurius Politicus Oct. 17–24.
5. Vane was sent to the Scilly islands, Lambert to Guernsey and Cobbet and Waller were sent to Jersey by warrants dated 21st October, o.s. Cal. S.P. Dom. 1661–2, page 118.

FROM
'Venice: November 1661', in Calendar of State Papers Relating To English Affairs in the Archives of Venice, Volume 33, 1661-1664, ed. Allen B Hinds (London, 1932), British History Online
https://www.british-history.ac.uk…

RM on 31 Oct 2024  •  Link

"This is a very long walk."

Deptford and the site of navy dockyard ( https://tinyurl.com/3j84m9rx ) is about an hour's walk from the south end of London Bridge, through Rotherhithe and along what is now named as Evelyn Street. Alternatively along the riverbank, which was then a spit of stable gravel bed whereas further inland the ground was then marshy (and would later be excavated to create huge trading docks, some of which still exist), was a longer but perhaps more scenic alternative.

Eric the Bish on 31 Oct 2024  •  Link

“I got him to shew me every hole and corner of the ship, much to my information”.

There is no substitute for crawling through every part of the ship: even a modern plastic yacht has its secrets (such as the large block of concrete I found in a Jeanneau 34 to trim the vessel) - for Pepys this sort of knowledge will surely be useful ensuring he is not bamboozled by unscrupulous contractors when repairs are needed.

RLB on 31 Oct 2024  •  Link

So, if I get it correctly:

- There may in fact have been a plot, but if so it was a minor one (it doesn't even appear on Wikipedia, only as a vague note on Yarranton's own page), it got nowhere, and neither Vane nor Lambert was involved;
- However, they got them out of the way and separated (Vane to the Scillies, Lambert Guernsey) to make sure they couldn't communicate either with the plotters or with one another;
- The Venetian ambassador believes they were in fact involved (but seems to have been wrong;
- Samuel was wrong about only two people being involved and both of them being sent to the Scillies.

San Diego Sarah on 31 Oct 2024  •  Link

RLB -- Stephane and I have been tracking this one down, and have about 4 posts on the subject grouped at
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…

I think the lack of qualified leadership stopped the angst of so many from going far. But they did have Henry Bishop, the Post Master, on their side, and when you control the mail, you can spread rumors and easily and inexpensively keeping things in turmoil ... if you read my link it talks about how much seditious literature was being printed by Commonwealth men in the Dutch Republic and smuggled over to England, and spread through the mail.
Pepys never mentions seeing or reading newsletters/pamphlets. Had they been written in Latin he might have been interested?! (I think he's a bit of an intellectual snob in that way.)

San Diego Sarah on 31 Oct 2024  •  Link

From Sandwich's log, at anchor in Tangier Bay:

October 30, Wednesday.

In the afternoon I weighted (the wind eastwardly) and put to sea, where I spoke with an Englishman that came out 18 days before from about Falmouth, but not out of the Downs until October the 1st. Little news.
We also met the Newcastle coming in.

Copied from
The Journal of Edward Mountagu,
First Earl of Sandwich
Admiral and General-at-Sea 1659 - 1665

Edited by RC Anderson
Printed for the Navy Records Society
MDCCCCXXIX

Section III - Mediterranean 1661/62

@@@

Falmouth, Cornwall
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
The Downs
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
The Newcastle
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…

MartinVT on 1 Nov 2024  •  Link

"pretending that the corps stinks" — With all deference to Sam, but how can he know whether it stinks or not? As pointed out above, Slingsby died on the 26th (in the afternoon or early evening), so by this afternoon it has been four full days, kind of long to keep a body lying around unembalmed and un-iced. See https://www.crimescenecleanup.com…. — "A detectable decomposition smell begins within 24-48 hours as putrefaction sets in and intensifies any time between 4-10 days, depending on the conditions.)

Sam's "pretending" comment more likely reflects his own embarrassment at not showing up earlier at Slingsby's to pay respects, as Batten did while Sam plucked his theorbo strings. But perhaps Batten said he didn't notice any smell. Some people have better sniffers than others.