Monday 18 November 1661
By coach with Sir W. Pen; my wife and I toward Westminster, but seeing Mr. Moore in the street I light and he and I went to Mr. Battersby’s the minister, in my way I putting in at St. Paul’s, where I saw the quiristers in their surplices going to prayers, and a few idle poor people and boys to hear them, which is the first time I have seen them, and am sorry to see things done so out of order, and there I received 50l. more, which make up 100l. that I now have borrowed of him, and so I did burn the old bond for 50l., and paying him the use of it did make a new bond for the whole 100l. Here I dined and had a good dinner, and his wife a good pretty woman. There was a young Parson at the table that had got himself drunk before dinner, which troubled me to see.
After dinner to Mr. Bowers at Westminster for my wife, and brought her to the Theatre to see “Philaster,” which I never saw before, but I found it far short of my expectations. So by coach home.
26 Annotations
First Reading
daniel • Link
"and am sorry to see things done so out of order"
what is Sam sorry to see? poor idle people watching choristers going to prayers?
RexLeo • Link
"... and there I received 50l. more, which make up 100l."
Sam is borrowing quite a bit and quite often. No wonder he is sleepless at night fretting over his finances.
Pedro. • Link
"that had got himself drunk before dinner, which troubled me to see"
Was it the fact that he was a Parson that troubled Sam, or the fact that the young man could not hold his booze?
"and at noon left them, and with my head full of wine,"...see...
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Bradford • Link
Go on, guess who wrote "Philaster"!
Beaumont & Fletcher's "PHILASTER or LOVE LIES BLEEDING was probably produced in London about 1608."
To read the entire farrago of a plot, go to:
http://www.theatrehistory.com/bri…
Despite the title, ends with wedding bells all round.
Pauline • Link
Philaster, or Love Lies a-Bleeding
This is the play that Sam starred in as a young boy of about nine. He was taken on a visit to Durdans by John and Anne Pepys. The house party staged the play--commonly done in the days of no public playhouses. He took the part of the beautiful woman, Arethusa, Philaster falls in love with and marries in the end. "He learnt his part so well that he could still remember almost every word trenty-five years later." This quote from Claire Tomalin's biography.
Australian Susan • Link
"things done so out of order"
I took this to mean that the whole manner of conducting the service was inharmonius, badly managed, poorly done, with people unsure what to do when and so on. For someone who takes a pride in doing his work well, with everything done as it should be, and who likes everything about his house to be neat and working well,Sam would find a service in a shambles very distasteful. Also note the use of the word "drunk". Sam definitely seems to be making a distinction between him and his friends being "very merry" and someone today being "drunk" - so my assumption yesterday of disastrous hangover today was ill-founded - word sense wrong!
vicente • Link
Tainted maybe by Roman church influence "saw the quiristers in their surplices going to prayers, and a few idle poor people and boys to hear them, which is the first time I have seen them, and am sorry to see things done so out of order"
Besides which, going into the church out of the cold and damp how darstardly? Not for the Chant I be sure.
vicente • Link
Rabby Burns did say later to the effect ' oh! to have the gift to see our selves as others see us'
none of us want that.
"... There was a young Parson at the table that had got himself drunk before dinner, which troubled me to see..."
pat stewart cavalier • Link
Samuel "very merry" and the parson "drunk" : doesn't that remind one of motes (piece of straw) in the neigbour's eye and beams in one's own ?
Second Reading
Bill • Link
"I saw the quiristers in their surplices going to prayers, and a few idle poor people and boys to hear them, which is the first time I have seen them, and am sorry to see things done so out of order"
Four months ago, on 15 July 1661, Sam saw "scholars in their surplices" which he found "a strange sight." Perhaps he just hasn't adjusted yet to surplices. (Or even to prayer services on Monday mornings.)
Louise Hudson • Link
Too bad there was no Alcoholics Anonymous in Pepys' time. They would have told him that there is no difference between being merry amd being drunk and that alcoholics try to fool themselves that way all the time. Come on Sam. Up on your feet: "My name is Samuel Pepys and I am an alcoholic."
Sasha Clarkson • Link
Snide and anachronistic comments and value judgements contribute nothing to our understanding of Pepys' times. Is there any evidence that Sam was regarded as a drunkard by his contemporaries? No, because he held down his job and functioned socially at least as well as his superiors like Admiral Penn. Hence he increased in wealth and influence over the next couple of decades. Pepys' alcohol consumption was normal for his time and class: had it not been, encyclopaedia biographies would mention the exceptional part that alcohol played in his life. Apart from a single incident whilst he was a student at Cambridge, they don't, and Sam lived to a decent old age despite his chronic kidney problems.
The term "alcoholic" did not exist in the 17th century, nor were there even any temperance movements anywhere until around the time of the American Revolution. In cities, these were the days when, because of poor water quality, those who drank beer for breakfast had a longer life expectancy than those who didn't.
When temperance movements did begin, they were largely a reaction to the increased prevalence of strong spirits, and the damage they did to the poor. Even Quakers did not come to temperance until the 19th century; prior to that many were involved in the brewing trade. According to Quaker historian Adrian Cadbury, "Although much concerned with the scourge of cheap spirits, brewing ale was considered acceptable."
Alcoholism, clinically, refers to a disease of addiction and not merely to the regular use of alcohol. That being drunk and being merry are the same thing was not the general view in Pepys time, nor is it now.
Richard Law • Link
From the OED: 1648 T. Gage Eng.-Amer. xix. 144 If they can get any drink that will make them mad drunk..they never leave off, untill they bee mad and raging drunke.
Perhaps the difference between merrie and drunke is the resulting behaviour after having drink taken. Can I suggest that getting drunk leads to behaviour that might be (or ought to be) regretted when sober, whereas merrie has no lasting effects.
Chris Squire UK • Link
‘Very merry’ = still just about capable of routine work without a mistake though perhaps slow.
‘Drunk’ = incapable of working.
Drunk before dinner meant you were good for nothing and not to be relied on. Drunk after dinner meant much less as you had had ample time before dinner to do the important tasks of the day
Terry Foreman • Link
"there I received 50l. more, which make up 100l. that I now have borrowed of him,"
L&M: See https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Third Reading
San Diego Sarah • Link
'"... in my way I putting in at St. Paul’s, where I saw the quiristers in their surplices going to prayers, and a few idle poor people and boys to hear them, which is the first time I have seen them, and am sorry to see things done so out of order, ..."
'what is Sam sorry to see? poor idle people watching choristers going to prayers?'
It was more than idle poor people and boys; old St. Paul's was a very secular meeting place. Queens Mary and Elizabeth had both tried to stop this, but St. Paul's was convenient. People who met there were called Paul's Walkers, doing the Paul's Walk.
Outside were booksellers -- where pamphlets and newsbooks were sold. People bought them and went into St. Paul's to discuss the news. News and rumors were spread by people called to as News Mongers.
According to Francis Osborne (1593–1659):
“It was the fashion of those times, ... for the principal gentry, lords, courtiers, and men of all professions not merely mechanic, to meet in Paul's Church by 11 and walk in the middle aisle till 12, and after dinner from 3 to 6, during which times some discoursed on business, others of news. ... And those news-mongers ... did not only take the boldness to weigh the public but most intrinsic actions of the state, which some courtier or other did betray to this society. Amongst whom divers being very rich had great sums owing them by such as stood next the throne, who by this means were rendered in a manner their pensioners. So as I have found little reason to question the truth of which I heard then, but much to confirm me in it.” -- Francis Osborne, Works (1689, 9th ed.), 449–451, quoted in Thomson, Chamberlain Letters, 1.
Ben Jonson set a pivotal scene of his play Every Man Out of His Humour (1599) in Paul's walk.
It's possible Shakespeare’s reference to The Temple Walk in Henry IV, Part 2, was a humorous pun.
Much as playwrights and satirists pilloried Paul's Walk, all levels of society participated. It was the center for people watching.
“Paul's Walk is the Land's Epitome, or you may call it the lesser Isle of Great Britain. It is more then this, the whole world's Map, which you may here discern in it's perfect'st motion justling and turning. It is a heap of stones and men, with a vast confusion of Languages and were the Steeple not sanctified nothing like Babel. The noise in it is like that of Bees, a strange humming or buzz-mix of walking, tongues and feet: It is a kind of still roar or loud whisper. It is the great Exchange of all discourse, and no business whatsoever but is here stirring and afoot. It is the Synod of all pates politic, jointed and laid together in most serious posture, and they are not half so busy at the Parliament.” -- John Earle. Microcosmos (1628. Arber ed., 1868). 73.
https://gilbertwesleypurdy.blogsp…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau…
San Diego Sarah • Link
After posting this I realized all the references came prior to 1640, so it's likely "Paul's Walk" had finally died out with the Puritans.
But, as Pepys saw, St. Paul's was still a dry place for secular people with nothing particular to do to idly pass the day. And the booksellers were still outside, even if the news mongers were no longer pacing the aisle.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Is there any evidence that Sam was regarded as a drunkard by his contemporaries? No, because he held down his job and functioned socially at least as well as his superiors ..." Well said, Sasha,
"Brian Abrams, author of 'Party Like a President: True Tales of Inebriation, Lechery, and Mischief From the Oval Office', says it’s important to remember that consumption habits were generally different during the late 18th century. It was still common at the time to start the day with a small beer (usually around 3 percent ABV). “John Adams would drink a tanker of his cider every morning with his breakfast,” Abrams says.
"Part of that was a coping mechanism for the physical and mental hardships of a rather difficult period in history. “As far as why all these old guys were drinking all the time, people's bodies were riddled with all sorts of incurable diseases,” Abrams says. “Everyone's walking around with whooping cough or typhoid, or they have splinters with tetanus in them, or bullets lodged in their bodies. These were not things that doctors could cure, so people just drank.”'
https://www.amazon.com/Party-Like…
Yes, this quote is about another century and from another continent, but the facts remain: They had to tolerate pain and inconvenience unknown to us. I'm glad I live now and have the luxury of not understanding their need for alcoholic relief.
David G • Link
Following on from several of the annotations on this entry, I did a word search of the Diary for "drunk" for got roughly 60 hits for "drunk" in the sense of inebriated. In one instance, Sam refers to someone who was "as drunk as a dogg, but could stand, and talk and laugh," which supports Richard Law's initial stab at distinguishing between "drunk" and "merrie" from ten years ago. Sam also occasionally uses "foxed" and "fuddled" to refer to someone who is "drunk" but I can't tell from the Diary entries whether those terms refer to different degrees of inebriation or whether Sam is just varying his prose.
San Diego Sarah • Link
David, my guess is that these different words reflect Pepys' opinion of the other person. Are they happy drunks, or obnoxious? Are they able to handle themselves, or drooling? Do them embarrass themselves at the table, or amuse the other diners?
LKvM • Link
Re " . . . a few idle poor people and boys to hear them," I believe Sam's comment about things being out of order at St. Paul's refers to the choristers wearing surplices, garments that disturb him, and that the parson inelegantly drunk before dinner (i.e., around noon) is another blow to his puritan heart.
To pat stewart cavalier, a mote is just a tiny irritating particle in the eye, not a piece of straw (unless it is a very tiny, tiny bit of a piece of straw!).
This is the first time I have heard of Paul's Walk, and I found San Diego Sarah's quotations about Paul's Walk fascinating. They make the cathedral sound much like the busy, thronged temple in Jerusalem that Jesus famously and dramatically rid of all commercial and nonreligious activity; see Matthew, Mark. Luke, and John. The Puritans, undoubtedly knowing these Gospel accounts by heart, probably did the same to Paul's Walk during the interregnum, which is why there are so few there.
(San Diego Sarah's references to Paul's Walk as a crnter of activity refer to a time before the interregnum, as she added).
JMW • Link
"Snide and anachronistic comments and value judgements contribute nothing to our understanding of Pepys' times." Sasha Clarkson.
This.
Tonyel • Link
Speaking as an old man, the casual over-consumption of alcohol is within living memory.
I recall a famous journalist in El Vinos needing to use both hands to pick up his glass before going back to his desk to write 2000 words of polished prose. I also recall falling asleep in my car at a red traffic light at the entrance to Trafalgar Square until being woken by a taxi hooting.
No more was thought of this, or the thick cloud of smoke in low-ceilinged pubs, until some medic or scientist produced enough evidence to make us all feel guilty.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"The Puritans, undoubtedly knowing these Gospel accounts by heart, probably did the same to Paul's Walk during the interregnum, which is why there are so few there."
LKvM another theory came to me at midnight: Coffee shops were first introduced in 1652.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
The walkers had gravitated to warmer, more comfortable settings in the last 9 years.
San Diego Sarah • Link
From Sandwich's log, at anchor in Tangier Bay:
November 18, Monday.
About 8 in the morning we weighed, to have a sight of our anchor and cable and to take a new berth, our small bower anchor having broken in weighing about the shank, which was made of false iron, hollow 3 foot in length in the heart of him.
The weather was showery, the wind shifting too and again, so that we turned in the gut, and by sunset came to an anchor again the the bay of Tangier. [in margin - James, Augustine]
This day also the Town Major of Tangier and Mr. Rolt went off in the Newcastle frigate for Lagos. And the Merchant Pride went into Gibraltar Road.
Copied from
The Journal of Edward Mountagu,
First Earl of Sandwich
Admiral and General-at-Sea 1659 - 1665
Edited by RC Anderson
Printed for the Navy Records Society
MDCCCCXXIX
Section III - Mediterranean 1661/62
@@@
The Royal James --
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
The Augustine -- we last heard of her on November 13
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
The Town Major of Tangier -- he must be a man
Mr. Rolt -- presumably Edward Rolt
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
The Newcastle frigate --
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Lagos. Portugal --
https://wetravelportugal.com/lago…
The Merchant Pride -- first we've heard about this one.
Gibraltar Road -- presumably near The Rock Of
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Michaela • Link
I love that quotation from John Earle, 1628, I felt I was there among the tall pillars with the busy hum of men echoing around me. I suppose it’s a natural need among humans, platforms like X have taken over now.