Friday 29 November 1661
I lay long in bed, till Sir Williams both sent me word that we were to wait upon the Duke of York to-day; and that they would have me to meet them at Westminster Hall, at noon: so I rose and went thither; and there I understand that they are gone to Mr. Coventry’s lodgings, in the Old Palace Yard, to dinner (the first time I knew he had any); and there I met them two and Sir G. Carteret, and had a very fine dinner, and good welcome, and discourse; and so, by water, after dinner to White Hall to the Duke, who met us in his closet; and there he did discourse to us the business of Holmes, and did desire of us to know what hath been the common practice about making of forrayne ships to strike sail to us, which they did all do as much as they could; but I could say nothing to it, which I was sorry for. So indeed I was forced to study a lie, and so after we were gone from the Duke, I told Mr. Coventry that I had heard Mr. Selden often say, that he could prove that in Henry the 7th’s time, he did give commission to his captains to make the King of Denmark’s ships to strike to him in the Baltique.
From thence Sir W. Pen and I to the Theatre, but it was so full that we could hardly get any room, so he went up to one of the boxes, and I into the 18d. places, and there saw “Love at first sight,” a play of Mr. Killigrew’s, and the first time that it hath been acted since before the troubles, and great expectation there was, but I found the play to be a poor thing, and so I perceive every body else do. So home, calling at Paul’s Churchyard for a “Mare Clausum,” having it in my mind to write a little matter, what I can gather, about the business of striking sayle, and present it to the Duke, which I now think will be a good way to make myself known. So home and to bed.
21 Annotations
First Reading
RexLeo • Link
"...having it in my mind to write a little matter, what I can gather, about the business of striking sayle, and present it to the Duke, which I now think will be a good way to make myself known."
Sign of becoming a great executive.
Louis • Link
"Mare Clausum" = Laws of the Sea?
"I could say nothing to it, which I was sorry for. So indeed I was forced to study a lie, and so after we were gone from the Duke, I told Mr. Coventry that I had heard Mr. Selden often say," &c.
Now, is this remark about Mr. Selden the lie Pepys studied to tell, or a remark in talk that he left unrecorded?
If Selden's still alive or around, and in a position to verify or deny the remark, this seems like jumping into a well to avoid tumbling into the Thames.
Glyn • Link
According to the above link to his name, Mr Selden was a famous jurist who has been safely dead since 1654. He was teaching at Cambridge University while Pepys was an undergraduate there. Batten and Penn are experienced seamen who could talk about this from personal knowledge. I'm not sure if anyone else there expected Pepys to know much about this topic - he may just be being hypersensitive, or expecting more from himself than the others do, a sign of insecurity in his job.
dirk • Link
Mare Clausum
Mare clausum [L.] (Internat. Law):
Lit., closed sea; hence, a body of water within the separate
jurisdiction of the nation; -- opposed to {open sea}, the water open to all nations and over which no single nation has special control.
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/di…
Selden's “Mare Clausum” was the British reply to the argument of Grotius's “Mare Liberum”, which denied the validy of England's claim to the high seas.
Selden argues that England's jurisdiction extends, in fact, to all waters surrounding the isles.
For the sake of clarity, we’re not discussing “territorial waters” here, but the oceans and seas beyond coastal waters.
John Selden (1584-1654).
First edition of Mare Clausum, 1635. Second edition, enlarged, with side-notes, 1636.
Hugo Grotius (1583-1645), Dutch jurist.
Mare Liberum, 1609.
dirk • Link
Mare Clausum vs. Mare Liberum
The historic controversy which arose out of demands on the part of different states to assert exclusive dominion over areas of the open or high sea. Thus Spain laid claim to exclusive dominion over whole oceans, Great Britain to all her environing narrow seas and so on. These claims gave rise to vigorous opposition by other powers and led to the publication of Grotius's work (1609) called "Mare liberum". In "Mare clausum" (1635) John Selden endeavoured to prove that the sea was practically as capable of appropriation as territory. Owing to the conflict of claims which grew out of the controversy, maritime states had to moderate their demands and base their pretensions to maritime dominion on the principle that it extended seawards from land.
A formula was found by Bynkershoek in his "De dominio maris" (1702) for the restriction of dominion over the sea to the actual distance to which cannon range could protect it. This became universally adopted and developed into a three-mile belt (territorial waters).
Source:
Encyclopedia Britannica (1911 edition)
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/
vicente • Link
Stiking the flag and THE pecking order:King of the seas, acknowledgement of whom be the king of the ant heap. Whose law would rule, and be enforced, same old one, size of ball that will shred thy sails when I am mad.
Naturally, one would never argue with Jimmy [sorry Duke of York James], Sam like most of us would utter ' quite right, they must show due respect', just as our lads do down on the farm, tug the forlock.
Back in '42 "The Law , Parliament declared in August 1642.... enjoy their estates, are protected from any sort of violence and power, and differenced [deference?] from the meaner sort of people , with whom otherwise they would be but fellow servants'. [Century of Revolution C. Hill p 56.]
The divinity of royalty is be a rising again. Remember Navigation Act of 1660 was passed basically to enforce the English monopoly of import trade by only Englishman , Irishmen or English Colonists crewed by 75% English Matlocks. Of course If the Dutch wanted to send over some fish, would not say no but then pay double duty. [more p 180 Cen of Rev ch]
deepfatfriar • Link
"...before the troubles..."
A phrase to conjure with.....
Pedro. • Link
"before the troubles"
A phrase still used..
The period known as “The Troubles” is merely one link in a long chain of religious bitterness and conflict stretching back across centuries of Irish history
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/…
Pauline • Link
"to Mr. Coventry's lodgings…to dinner (the first time I knew he had any)”
Does this mean that some notables hold open dinner daily for social and business purposes. It appears that the Sandwich’s have this policy at the Wardrobe, even when Edward is out of town and when Lady Sandwich is “not dining out of her chamber”.
Mary • Link
Mr. Coventry's lodgings.
I had taken this to mean that Sam had not previously known that Coventry had lodgings in Old Palace Yard.
vicente • Link
" hold open dinner daily for social and business purposes" Even in my youth some of the Local Worthies would have open house for a bite or more. One was always made to feel welcome, besides being just being nice, it allowed the Gentry to catch up on all the local goings, comings , and other savory and unsavory dealings, much more imformative than the filtered press.
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"I told Mr. Coventry that I had heard Mr. Selden often say, that he could prove that in Henry the 7th’s time, he did give commission to his captains to make the King of Denmark’s ships to strike to him in the Baltique."
L&M note Selden died in November 1654 when Pepys was 21. Pepys may have known of him not only by reputation but also through Selden's friendship with John Langley, Pepys's schoolmaster. Possibly Pepys's visit to the Baltic in 1659 inspired the invention of this story. It was a most unlikely one, since Denmark and Sweden successfully clained sovereignty over the Baltic. Pepys was in later life sceptical about all such extravagant claims.
Bill • Link
"I was forced to study a lie"
To STUDY, to apply the Mind to, to contrive.
---An Universal Etymological English Dictionary. N. Bailey, 1675.
Terry Foreman • Link
"So indeed I was forced to study a lie...."
See https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… and https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Terry Foreman • Link
"I to the Theatre, but it was so full that we could hardly get any room, so he went up to one of the boxes, and I into the 18d. places"
L&M note the 18d. places were in the middle gallery, between the boxes and the top gallery. Pepys often sat in this part of the auditorium during his earlier years of theatregoing.
Terry Foreman • Link
"So home, calling at Paul’s Churchyard for a “Mare Clausum,” having it in my mind to write a little matter, what I can gather, about the business of striking sayle, and present it to the Duke...."
Selden's treatise; in Latin (with sprinklings of Greek and Hebrew); first published in 1635: PL 2048. It was probably the translation of 1652 whicch Pepys now bought (cf. https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… Pepys was later critical of the work: Naval Minutes, pp. 53, 275. Nothing is known of the 'little matter' which Pepys here thought of writing; he may not have written it. (L&M note)
Third Reading
LKvM • Link
Dirk, thank you for the interesting history of the restriction of a nation's "dominion over the sea to the actual distance to which cannon range could protect it. This became universally adopted and developed into a three-mile belt (territorial waters)."
Despite its being "universally adopted," some Asian countries famously still claim a lot more.
San Diego Sarah • Link
You'll recall that Sir Robert Holmes had let the Swedish Ambassador go after sailing passed him without lowering his flag. The Ambassador (fortunately for all) left before clarifying which king had given him permission to do this.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
San Diego Sarah • Link
The Sir Wills were sitting in the Commons today, which is why they arranged to meet Pepys in Westminster Hall.
It sounds like it was a boring morning for them.
The Lords were barely more exciting:
Bill concerning Quakers, &c.
The Duke of Richmond reported from the Committee the Bill concerning Quakers, wherein the Committee have thought fit to make some Alterations, which are offered to the Consideration of the House.
The said Alterations were read Twice; and, after some Debate, it is ORDERED, That the said Bill is re-committed to the further Consideration of the same Committee, who are to meet this Day Sevennight.
Abuse of Protections.
ORDERED, That the Committee for Privileges are to take into Consideration the Abuse of Protections, and how to regulate them; and to make Report thereof to this House; and this to be the first Business on Monday next at the Committee.
San Diego Sarah • Link
In case anyone is confused by Pepys' use of the word 'closet', a book by Danielle Bobker called "The Closet : The Eighteenth-Century Architecture of Intimacy" from Princeton University Press, ISBN: 9780691198231 is fascinating. Pepys is directly referenced, of course.
It means they met in James' private office/hobby/curio room.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... after dinner to White Hall to the Duke, who met us in his closet; and there he did discourse to us the business of Holmes, ..." and apparently discusses nothing else with his Navy specialists.
On December 2, 1661 N.S. (November 24 O.S. approx.) the Venetian Ambassador says: "The duke of York has been at Dunkirk and is momentarily expected back at Court." -- with no speculation on why he had made such a trip. Since Pepys hasn't mentioned it, this must have been either a well-kept secret, or so mundane as to not be worth of mention.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk…