A. De Araujo on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

"and how all the ladies envy my Lady Castlemaine"
as a rule men like young beautiful women and women like powerful rich men;
there are exceptions of course e.g.:HRH Prince Charles.

vicente on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

Field, a right old rogue.

dirk on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

17th c. timekeeping

St Paul's in the morning, then dinner (=lunch), "much talk after dinner", then to the Temple, then a two hours' walk ... "till 8 o'clock"

Is this the same as our modern "8 o'clock"? Anyone with clear and definite info on how the hours were counted in Sam's time? From midnight till noon, and noon till midnight? From sunrise?

I found some information on
http://www.corneal.co.uk/Hist-of-…
but not quite what I was looking for.

vicente on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

One should be thankful, that Sam doth not call time by the bells.

vicente on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

At sea, the 24 hour day, it be divided into 6 periods of 4 hours ea., and at every 'alf- 'our, the bell be struck with a shake of the dinger and with each succeeding half hour, gets an extra clanger until the bell ringer gave up at eight. There by ending the the four 'our watch. There would be no mercy if the ladd let the sand glass run it's course and no dong.
It appears to have got into vogue back in 1485 with two watche bells surely called leeward and larward, else it be starboard and port. Then then ladd who forgot to wring got wrung.

john lauer on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

This brief history also skirts the issue of when/how/why the 24 hour-per-day originated.

http://physics.nist.gov/GenInt/Ti…

Jesse on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

"how all the ladies envy my Lady Castlemaine"

At first I thought the "envy" would be seasoned with some contempt. After a look at the background -- at the level of the court, this was a society which had an extremely low regard for marital fidelity and a high regard for courtesans, I’m not so sure.

Pauline on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

"...and there heard another [sermon]: by the same token a boy, being asleep, fell down a high seat to the ground...."
I take it this second sermon was not "pretty good" and that "by the same token" means that the falling boy's reaction was of the same token as Sam's.

cumgranissalis on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

24 hr clock is buried in sands of time and in old fossils like the heal stone at Stone henge. Probably by looking at the 12 areas of the zodiac 12 for Night plus 12 for day became a number to start and finish with. Numbers took on magic. The Official story is process of riddling out the unnecessary complications long after the real event. Events drove the issues then the clean up boys from upper chambers set it to music.
For Instance, Longitude was not official to late 1600's but the ladds at sea and the map makers were playing with the concept long before it was cast in officialdom.

Australian Susan on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

Thanks to John Lauer and Dirk for fascinating sites, but neither of these (as the finders point out) really address the concept of the 24 hour day. One factor not yet mentioned was the office of the church. The Catholic Church, from the early Middle Ages onwards, demanded a regime of saying Ofices according to strict times and these had to be adhered to. This drove the technology to find means of accurate timekeeping (to the hour, anyway). Use was made of calibrated candles of certain heights which would burn down from one calibration to the next in an hour (provided the candle was out of a draught). The names of the offices became names for the hours of the secular day throughout Christendom: Compline is the last of the daily offices chanted by monks before retiring for the evening. In the
early Christian church, monastic desert communities continued the Jewish practice of prayer at
principal hours of the day. The hours of prayer became commemorative of the work of Christ:
daybreak equaled the resurrection, the third hour represented the descent of the Holy Spirit, the
sixth hour portrayed the crucifixion, the ninth hour paralleled the death of Christ, and evening
service symbolized the light of Christ in the darkness of the world. Each of these services later
took a Latin name related to the time of day: Matins, Lauds, Prime, Tierce, Sext, and Nones.
The last service traditionally at nine o'clock came to be known as Compline, taken from the Latin
word completorium meaning "completion of the day." Here is a site with more information http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/notr…
Although in the 17th century we are past this time of monasticism, the legacy of the monastic timekeeping lived on.

Stolzi on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

"a boy, being asleep, fell down"

thus repeating history:

Acts 20:9 "And there sat in a window a certan young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep; and as Paul was long preaching, he sank down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft..."

JWB on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

Quick rundown of Time-
"Dividing the Day
We divide the Day into 24 hours, with each day beginning at midnight.
This wasn't always the case:

The day usually began at dawn (sunrise).
Equal division of Day and Night into 12 hours.
The length of the hour was different for day and night (except at the Equinoxes).
This division worked fine for sundials.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Equal Hours
The invention of mechanical clocks in the 1300s led to a need for equal hours:
Ensured the clocks read true in the morning.
Simplified clock design.
Medieval clocks were large and complex:

Erected in towers in cities for everyone to see.
Led to a standardization of time keeping:
Personal timepieces came only later.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dividing the Hour
Until 1500s, clocks only kept time to the quarter hour.
Further division of the hours was needed as clocks became more complex.

1 hour was divided into 60 minutes.
1 minute was divided into 60 seconds.
Seconds didn't become common until the 1670s (39-inch pendulum clocks have a natural 1 second "tick")." Richard Pogge, Ohio Sate University

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-sta…

Mary on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

Timely information.

Lovely, so now we can be fairly sure that what we had previously supposed is likely to be true; when Sam speaks of eight o'clock he means essentially what we mean by eight o'clock. The use of the term "o'clock" is something of a giveaway, I feel. Contrast this with the usage of the translators/compilers of the Authorized Version of the Bible, who would refer to 'the third hour' etc. when relating events that had taken place within a different system of time-measurement. (Shakespeare notoriously failed to get this sorted out and refers, in Julius Caesar, to the striking of an anachronistic clock).

Glyn on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

The church of St Dunstans in the West (on Fleet Street) became the first church to have an outside clock with a minute hand (i.e. time not size) some time in the 1670s, but plenty of churches had outside clocks with just hour hands by then. And by their nature, they have to run at the same rate throughout the day.

(We seem to have regressed slightly, with sundials now being erected all over the place, e.g. at Seven Dials in Covent Garden, which was unveiled in 1988 by the Queen of the Netherlands.)

Scott on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

Didn't our boy promise not to drink wine except one glass with meals back on the 7th? He held for 6 days but I think there is some backsliding going on. He couldn't let Sir W drink alone.

Araucaria on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

We had a discussion about time on February 21: http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

As I mentioned then (as upper_left_hand_corner), recall that even though they used a uniform 24 hour clock, they still set noon at transit -- that is, when the sun passes the meridian.

You can use a calculator (see Feb 21 page or this one: http://www.nisbett.com/sunrise-se…) but be sure to add 10 days to today's date to account for the Julian/Gregorian discrepancy.

We see that on April 23, the sunset in London will be 19:03 (standard time) but the transit will be at 11:56. So Pepys's sunset would be counted at "19:07". There would also be about 30 minutes of civil twilight afterward, but astronomical twilight lasts another 30 minutes beyond. The moon would be about first quarter and would help illuminate past civil twilight.

The upshot is that walking around until 8PM on a clear moonlit evening in spring wouldn't have been completely impossible.

But Sam doesn't mention supper, and even with dinner until 2PM and church until 4PM, and a 2 hour walk, 8PM does seem kind of late to finish. Could the 8 be a misprint for 6? Or perhaps the unaccounted-for 2 hours were spent eating at Gray's Inn before walking.

Nix on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

The falling boy --

So this was the text on which the sermon was based -- Acts 20:9 -- not an incident in church that morning. Thanks for catching that, Stolzi. Can anyone shed light on the meaning of the text?

The episode occurs as St. Paul is preaching in Troas:

20:9. And a certain young man named Eutychus, sitting on the window,
being oppressed with a deep sleep (as Paul was long preaching), by
occasion of his sleep fell from the third loft down and was taken up
dead.

20:10. To whom, when Paul had gone down, he laid himself upon him and,
embracing him, said: Be not troubled, for his soul is in him.

20:11. Then going up and breaking bread and tasting and having talked a
long time to them, until daylight, so he departed.

20:12. And they brought the youth alive and were not a little comforted.

maureen on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

A clock with hour-hand only is here (at Castletown, Isle of Man) - http://www.island-images.co.uk/La… - believed to be 1590s in date, believed to be a gift from Elizabeth I - both a bit hard to prove but the clock still works and is still used for reference by the town's inhabitants.

Australian Susan on 14 Apr 2005  •  Link

The reading from Acts quoted above shows Paul to be a true apostle (even though he never saw Christ alive) as he has powers to heal.This took place on Paul's third missionary journey. The young man would have been sitting by the (unglazed) window to avoid the smoke and fumes from the many lamps mentioned as being in the room. Paul taught all night - no wonder the young man fell asleep.

Pauline on 15 Apr 2005  •  Link

"So this was the text on which the sermon was based -- Acts 20:9 -- not an incident in church that morning.”
Nix and Stolzi, reading together we have elucidated this sentence in today’s entry in a way that as individual readers many/some of us would have missed completely. This missing and “not getting it” is what made reading The Diary a failing enterprise for me in the past.

I do love reading The Diary with all this good help from all of you!

David Ross McIrvine on 15 Apr 2005  •  Link

I was happy to see the elucidation of this, and Australian Susan's explanation of the reason the boy was in the window. The lamps she mentions are here in verse 8 of the Scripture that Pepys would know (from the Holy Bible of 1611):

20:7: And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
20:8: And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
20:9: And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
20:10: And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
20:11: When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed.
20:12: And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted.

Nix on 15 Apr 2005  •  Link

"and continued his speech until midnight" --

So the lesson seems to be: "Paul wasn't necessarily boring, just long-winded!"

Thanks in particular to Aus.Sus. for cluing us in to the real significance of this passage.

cumgranissalis on 15 Apr 2005  •  Link

Thanks for the Homily explantion, great pieces. Sam, I doth think, only enscribes the necessary details to stimulate his own memory. It is up to us [invader of the diary] to envision the detail and of course, we the reader will fill in the gory details, based on our sum total of lifes hand outs. He is not out to satisfy an Editor, Leader or his Tutor or even a reader that he does not expect.
RE: the late hour of 8 on the clock, why go home early there be no game or Castilles finest on tonight.

A. Hamilton on 16 Apr 2005  •  Link

Acts20:9

Among this group's finest efforts.

professor david ross mcirvine on 22 Apr 2005  •  Link

"Acts20:9 Among this group's finest efforts.”

Stolzi first adduced the Scripture, and Australian Susan explicated it: a 1-2 punch!!

Terry Foreman on 28 Jun 2005  •  Link

The origins of the 24-hour day and the units into which we divide time and space:

"The ancient Egyptians made several contributions to horology, the science of measuring time. Around 1500 B.C., they developed a sundial, onto which they divided the daylight hours into 10 equal parts. They also defined two hours as "twilight hours," one in the morning and one in the evening. Historians believe that the Egyptians used an early astronomical tool called a merkhet at night to mark the passage of "clock stars," specific stars that were equally spread across the sky. During the summer night, 12 clock stars passed the merkhet.

"With a 10 hour day, 2 twilight hours and 12 hours of night, the Egyptians arrived at a 24-hour day. Since an hour was always 1/12 of the period of light or darkness, it was not a fixed quantity. In the summer, for example, a daylight hour was longer than a nighttime hour.

"The next major step forward came from the Babylonians, between approximately 300 and 100 BC They used the sexagesimal--or base-60--system for their astronomical calculations. Although no one knows why they chose 60, one reason may be because base-60 makes divisional operations easy since 60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, etc. Just as base-10 can be divided into decimal places, base-60 can be divided into fractional places. The first fractional place is called a minute, the second place is called a second. These fractional place names were applied to hours, as well as to degrees for measuring angles.”

http://www.riverdeep.net/current/…

Terry Foreman on 14 Jun 2014  •  Link

Wikipedia says "The 24-hour time system has its origins in the Egyptian astronomical system of decans,"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-… The Decans are 36 groups of stars (small constellations) which rise consecutively on the horizon throughout each earth rotation. The rising of each decan marked the beginning of a new decanal "hour" (Greek hōra) of the night for the ancient Egyptians, and they were used as a sidereal star clock beginning by at least the 9th or 10th Dynasty (ca 2100 BCE.)
....
Eventually this system led to a system of 12 daytime hours and 12 nighttime hours, varying in length according to the season. Later, a system of 24 "equinoctial" hours was used.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dec…

Chris Squire UK on 19 Apr 2015  •  Link

‘token, n .< Old English tácen . .
. . 15. Phrases (in which the sense of token becomes vague).
a. by the same token or (somewhat arch.) by this (or that) token : (a) on the same ground; for the same reason; in the same way; (b) (= French à telles enseignes que), ‘the proof of this being that’; introducing a corroborating circumstance, often weakened down to a mere associated fact that helps the memory or is recalled to mind by the main fact (now arch. or dial.).
Sense (a) represents the predominant modern use (and app. that current in the 15th c.). Sense (b) occurs from 1600.
. .1609 Shakespeare Troilus & Cressida i. ii. 277 Pand. I a token from Troylus: Cres: By the same token you are a Bawde.
1660 S. Pepys Diary 28 Feb. (1970) I. 70 Up in the morning, and had some red Herrings to our breakfast while my boot-heel was a-mending; by the same token, the boy left the hole as big as it was before.
1662 S. Pepys Diary 13 Apr. (1970) III. 64, I went to the Temple to church, and there heard another [sermon]. By the same token, a boy, being asleep, fell down a high seat to the ground.
1722 D. Defoe Jrnl. Plague Year 280 Others caused large Fires to be made..by the same Token..two or three were pleas'd to set their Houses on Fire, and so effectually sweetned them by burning them down to the Ground . . ‘

Terry Foreman on 12 Sep 2017  •  Link

Journals of the Earl of Sandwich

13th. Sunday. About ten oclock in the morning I went ashore at the Terero de Paso and there was met by Don Lucas, Master of Ceremonies, and in the King’s coach conducted to the Palace where I met the King, Queen of England, Q. Regent and Dom Pedro the Infante coming out of the Presence Chamber. The Earls of Portugal walk with the King covered and in that respect the Q. of England commanded me to put on my hat, which I obeyed. The King etc went along together to the head of the stairs that descend into the court and the two Queens took leave with that decency and constancy that was admirable to see. After that the Q. of England went into her coach, next before which went the coach of respect empty, and then my coach and then the Nobles of Portugal according to their dignity. The streets of the city of Lisbon were all adorned with rich carpets and hangings at the windows and pageants made in their manner to demonstrate as much joy as could be; and the regiments of train-bands and guards that were in the city drawn out. When the Queen came to the great cathedral church, we all alighted and went before her into the church, myself placed next to Dom Pedro, the King leading the Queen of England by the hand. When we came into the church near the door, the priests brought a Cross under a rich canopy supported by 6 priests, which the K., Q. and D.Pd. kissed kneeling upon cushions. When they came to the Choir, the King and Queen took their seat to hear Mass and the Conde de Ponte, now Marquis de Sande, and the Visconde de … [blank in Journal] and another Don went with me to a room purposely prepared for me to repose in until the Mass was celebrated. After Mass I came down to the Choir again and took my place before the Queen, and so we went into the coaches another way of the city to a new bridge built at the end of the King’s yard purposely for the Queen to take water at, all hanged richly and floored with carpets, where the Queen descended and embarked with the King and Dom Pedro in the King’s barge, and so went aboard the Royal Charles, where as soon as they were entered the Henry (Sir John Mennes, Vice-Admiral) fired 61 guns, the James Rear Admiral, 59 (Capt. Clerck commander) and all the rest of the fleet proportionally. After some hours discourse the King went ashore and I by the Queen’s command went along with him. The ships all fired again, the Vice Admiral 41, the Rear Admiral 39 and the rest proportionally.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/indept…

Terry Foreman on 12 Sep 2017  •  Link

Journals of the Earl of Sandwich

13th. Sunday. [conclusion] At night the ships showed out lights at every port-hole and in their tops and yards, and fired rockets and squibs, very handsome to see in the night-time. https://www.pepysdiary.com/indept…

Terry Foreman on 29 Aug 2019  •  Link

"Thence to Graye’s Inn walkes; and there met Mr. Pickering and walked with him two hours till 8 o’clock till I was quite weary. His discourse most about the pride of the Duchess of York;"

L&M: Cf. Burnet, i. 298: '[she] took state on her, rather too much.'