Monday 7 September 1663

Up pretty betimes, and awhile to my vyall, and then abroad to several places, to buy things for the furnishing my house and my wife’s closet, and then met my uncle Thomas, by appointment, and he and I to the Prerogative Office in Paternoster Row, and there searched and found my uncle Day’s will, end read it over and advised upon it, and his wife’s after him, and though my aunt Perkins testimony is very good, yet I fear the estate being great, and the rest that are able to inform us in the matter are all possessed of more or less of the estate, it will be hard for us ever to do anything, nor will I adventure anything till I see what part will be given to us by my uncle Thomas of all that is gained. But I had another end of putting my uncle into some doubt, that so I might keep him: yet from going into the country that he may be there against the Court at his own charge, and so I left him and his son at a loss what to do till I see them again. And so I to my Lord Crew’s, thinking to have dined there, but it was too late, and so back and called at my brother’s and Mr. Holden’s about several businesses, and went all alone to the Black Spread Eagle in Bride Lane, and there had a chopp of veale and some bread, cheese, and beer, cost me a shilling to my dinner, and so through Fleet Ally, God forgive me, out of an itch to look upon the sluts there, against which when I saw them my stomach turned, and so to Bartholomew Fayre, where I met with Mr. Pickering, and he and I to see the monkeys at the Dutch house, which is far beyond the other that my wife and I saw the other day; and thence to see the dancing on the ropes, which was very poor and tedious.

But he and I fell in discourse about my Lord Sandwich. He tells me how he is sorry for my Lord at his being at Chelsey, and that his but seeming so to my Lord without speaking one word, had put him clear out of my Lord’s favour, so as that he was fain to leave him before he went into the country, for that he was put to eat with his servants; but I could not fish from him, though I knew it, what was the matter; but am very sorry to see that my Lord hath thus much forgot his honour, but am resolved not to meddle with it.

The play being done, I stole from him and hied home, buying several things at the ironmonger’s — dogs, tongs, and shovels — for my wife’s closett and the rest of my house, and so home, and thence to my office awhile, and so home to supper and to bed. By my letters from Tangier today I hear that it grows very strong by land, and the Mole goes on. They have lately killed two hundred of the Moores, and lost about forty or fifty. I am mightily afeard of laying out too much money in goods upon my house, but it is not money flung away, though I reckon nothing money but when it is in the bank, till I have a good sum beforehand in the world.

38 Annotations

First Reading

TerryF  •  Link

"buying...at the ironmonger’s — dogs, tongs, and shovels"

dog - perhaps either

(n) pawl, detent, click, dog (a hinged catch that fits into a notch of a ratchet to move a wheel forward or prevent it from moving backward) [or]
(n) andiron, firedog, dog, dog-iron (metal supports for logs in a fireplace) http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl…

TerryF  •  Link

Playing head-games with Uncle Thomas & son

"But I had another end of putting my uncle into some doubt [suspicion], that so I might keep him...yet from going into the country that he may be there against the Court at his own charge"

L&M explain that the court in question is the Bramptom manorial court in whose jurisdiction this copyhold estate fell.

dirk  •  Link

"I reckon nothing money but when it is in the bank"

Something to remember for future discussions...

Paul Chapin  •  Link

"in the bank"
When you think about it, this is a curious expression for Sam to use, since in his time they did not yet have banks to keep money in, at least in our modern sense. He seems to have kept his actual currency in a strongbox in his cellar, if I remember correctly. Perhaps such a box was called a "bank" then, as we would refer to a piggy bank?

Paul Chapin  •  Link

"dogs, tongs, and shovels"
Since tongs and shovels are fireplace tools, I think 'dogs' probably means andirons, as per Terry's second definition.

Lurker  •  Link

Anyone know what the "Perogative Office" is/was?

TerryF  •  Link

"I reckon nothing money but when it is in the bank"

Paul, the same occurred to me.

bank (1)
"financial institution," 1474, from either O.It. banca or M.Fr. banque (itself from the O.It. term), both meaning "table" (the notion is of the moneylender's exchange table), from a Gmc. source (cf. O.H.G. bank "bench"); see bank (2). The verb meaning "to put confidence in" (U.S. colloquial) is attested from 1884. Bank holiday is from 1871, though the tradition is as old as the Bank of England. Bankroll (v.) "to finance" is 1920s. To cry all the way to the bank was coined 1956 by flamboyant pianist Liberace, after a Madison Square Garden concert that was packed with patrons but panned by critics.
bank (2)
"earthen incline, edge of a river," c.1200, probably in O.E., from O.N. banki, from P.Gmc. *bangkon "slope," cognate with P.Gmc. *bankiz "shelf." http://www.etymonline.com/index.p…

Is this figuative? OED anyone?

dirk  •  Link

"Prerogative Office"

L&M note that this refers to the archiepiscopal court, in Ivy Lane, Paternoster Row. This is the place where wills were proved, and supposedly copies were held.

dirk  •  Link

"bank"

Obsolete meaning:
a. a sum of money, esp. as a fund for use in business.
b. a moneychanger's table, counter, or shop.
Random House Unabridged Dictionary
http://dictionary.reference.com/s…

- - - -

A short history of banking in the UK.
http://www.moneyreformparty.org.u…
Interesting to know that continental Europe had "banks" at least one century earlier than Britain -- for some reason or other this institution remained unknown in Britain till the end of the 17th c.

For a more comprehensive history of banking, see:
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldh…

MissAnn  •  Link

"prerogative office" means an office under the Crown (other than a
statutory office) to which the right to appoint is vested in the Governor in
Council" - definition in s4 of the Public Administration Act 2004.

However, I think in the situation described by Sam it is more likely to be similar to the current Probate Office (of the Supreme Court) - this is all in Australia, which of course is based on English law so I would imagine is fairly similar.

Looks like our office saying of "where there's a Will there's a relative" was true even in C17 - some things never change. I could tell you stories of families in this day that would curl your hair (for those of us with hair) - there is always someone who feels he/she has been overlooked in a most sinister way. But then again, that's how we make extra fees on Probates so I shouldn't be complaining.

What about the cruise by the "sluts" - I know people do that in Kings Cross (Sydney) just to have a gawk at the "working girls", thankfully Sam was not interested at all, obviously having Bess home has been a good thing for his morals. I would rather some other form of entertainment, but not monkeys on a chain - thankfully that's being outlawed in most countries now.

How much networking is done in various entertainments, hotels, etc. - without the use of telephones, faxes, email, internet, etc, etc. it was all face to face and so time consuming. How would he complete a timesheet (in 6 minute increments) and justify his day I don't know. I really appreciate my electronic tools in trade - especially my computer.

Are there any pictorial references to the Pepys house fully furnished?, even a room? Would love to see the new closet that Bess has garnered.

dirk  •  Link

Are there any pictorial references to the Pepys house fully furnished?

Not as far as I know.

The House of Thomas Bayly, carefully restored, constructed between 1653 and 1700, is useful as an example of a luxurious building in Sam’s time. http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclo…

Clicking on the "Special features" on the "History" page [you may have to scroll down] reveals some interesting photographs.

http://www.themerchantshouse.co.u…

dirk  •  Link

How would he complete a timesheet (in 6 minute increments) and justify his day... -- re MissAnn

He wouldn't have to. He was expected to do what had to be done -- no nine to five, or anything like our modern super-organized and super-controlled way of working. Neither does our modern notion "so time consuming" apply: since there was no way to do it faster, this wasn't experienced as frustratingly slow.

Michael Robinson  •  Link

to the Prerogative Office ... and there searched and found my uncle Day’s will

There is one John Day indexed for 1649, might these be the relevant documents:-

The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | Image Details
"Description Will of John Day, Gentleman of Leverington within the Isle of Ely, Cambridgeshire
Date 03 December 1649
Catalogue reference PROB 11/210links to the Catalogue
Dept Records of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury
Series Prerogative Court of Canterbury and related Probate Jurisdictions: Will Registers
Piece Name of Register: Fairfax Quire Numbers: 154 - 193"
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.u…

The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | Image Details
"Description Sentence of John Day of Leverington within the Isle of Ely, Cambridgeshire
Date 03 December 1649
Catalogue reference PROB 11/210links to the Catalogue
Dept Records of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury
Series Prerogative Court of Canterbury and related Probate Jurisdictions: Will Registers
Piece Name of Register: Fairfax Quire Numbers: 154 - 193"
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.u…

AndyK  •  Link

Fire Dogs are the same thing as Andirons....Although I don't think you'll here them called that in the UK.

They sit on either side of the hearth, and support either the fire basket, or grate.

Various examples can be seen at http://www.bygones.net/firedogs_a…

alanB  •  Link

"I stole from him and hied home"

lovely. This couldn't be written today and carry the same meaning.

GrahamT  •  Link

Fire dogs are iron stands at either side of the fireplace for placing logs across to allow air underneath for the draw. I think "andirons" is a corruption of "end irons". I have never heard of fire dogs being called that before today.
Fire Irons are the tools for poking, moving logs and cleaning up after the fire, including tongs and shovels.
Putting a grate across them is probably a a later modification.
I have never used a grate with my fire dogs, though I have seen them in French ironmonger's shops.

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"They have lately killed two hundred of the Moores and lost forty or fifty"
Plus ça change....

serafina  •  Link

Buying items at the Iron Mongers for the wife's closet... hmmmm is this the 17th century equivalent of the Love Shop?????

Bradford  •  Link

Ah, that Mr. Pepys was always one for having many irons in the fire.

One wonders how many people hoodwinked him while he was hoodwinking others. There's always a rung above as well as below.

Aqua  •  Link

Twilight years of Religious courts, last of the power years of the Bishops and ArcB's. These functions slowly moved to be under the control of the Common house rather that the Laudly house
L&M note that this refers to the archiepiscopal court, in Ivy Lane, Paternoster Row.

As there be money to be made, The earthly Lords needed to share.

Aqua  •  Link

"...How would he complete a timesheet (in 6 minute increments) and justify his day..."
never had to fill one in, I be on yearly pay, payed by job dun, not on sex mine_ute pay.

TerryF  •  Link

Michael, methinks you have the man.

"Uncle Day" was of Leverington, Cambridgeshire and d. 1659.
(L&M Companion)

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

re: Playing head-games with Uncle Thomas & son

Obviously, all that time spent with Creed is paying off...

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

re: the cruise by the "sluts"

I find this an interesting insight into Sam's views on sexuality, especially when combined with his assessment of Betty Lane on Sept. 4 (she "who seems desirous to have me come to see her and to have her company as I had a little while ago, which methinks if she were very modest, considering how I tumbled her and tost her, she should not").

At this point in his life, Sam is obviously drawn to, and fantasizes about, the attractions of "ready sex," but when push comes to, ahem, shove, what he values most is love (yes, I'm a poet and not even aware of it); the prospect of the fantasy, of the "zipless f*ck," quickly sours when he gets close enough to see the reality of it all.

Paul Chapin  •  Link

Fire dogs and Englishmen

"Fire dogs are iron stands at either side of the fireplace for placing logs across to allow air underneath for the draw. I think "andirons" is a corruption of "end irons". I have never heard of fire dogs being called that before today."

Graham, "andirons" is the common term in the U.S. for exactly the devices you describe. I would guess that on this side of the pond, only those of us with excessive exposure to British literature would recognize the phrase "fire dogs".

Aqua  •  Link

The Oed> for the tongs Samuel gets another mention:
OED: b. in pl. form with plural construction: the usual current use. pair of tongs is used when qualification by a numeral or an indefinite article is wanted.
1663 PEPYS Diary 7 Sept., Dogs, tongues, and shovells, for my wife's closett.
[OE. tang (str. f.), tange (wk. f.) = OLG. tanga (MDu. tanghe, Du. tang), OFris. tange, OHG. zanga str. fem. (MHG., Ger. zange), ON. t*tangu (Norw. tong, Swed. tång, Da. tang):- (also, with weak inflexion, tang Indo-Eur. *dank); cf. OHG. zangar, MLG., LG. tanger, MDu. tangher sharp, biting.]
1. An implement consisting of two limbs or ‘legs’ connected by a hinge, pivot, or spring, by means of which their lower ends are brought together so as to grasp and take up objects which it is impossible or inconvenient to lift with the hand. Examples of different forms are seen in a smith's tongs, domestic fire-tongs, and sugar-tongs.
A particular use or shape is often indicated by a prefixed word, as blacksmith's t., curling-t., gas-fitter's t., pipe t., sugar-t. When not otherwise particularized usually applied to fire-tongs. In early quots. often not distinguishable in sense from pincers or forceps.
1483 Cath. Angl. 378/1 A paire of Tanges, jn plurali numero, tenalia
d. Short for sugar-tongs, curling-tongs, oyster-tongs: see these words; also LAZY-TONGS.
1713 Lond. Gaz. No. 5086/3, 6 gilded Tea Spoons with Forks and Tongs.
fire-dog = ANDIRON
[a. OFr. andier (mod.Fr. landier, i.e. l'andier), cf. med.L. andena, anderia, anderius, mod.Fr. dialects andier, andi, andian. Its remoter history is unknown: see Diez, Skeat, and Wedgwood Contested Etymol. In Eng. the termination was at an early date identified with the word yre, yren iron, whence the later illusive spellings and-iron, hand-iron. Instances also occur of land-iron after later Fr.]

A utensil, consisting of an iron bar sustained horizontally at one end by an upright pillar or support usually ornamented or artistically shaped, at the other by a short foot; a pair of these, also called ‘fire-dogs,’ being placed, one at each side of the hearth or fire-place, with the ornamental ends to the front, to support burning wood. Sometimes ‘in a kitchen fire-place the upright support carried a rack in front for the spit to turn in’ (Wedgwood).
a1300 W. DE BIBLESWORTH in Wright Voc. 171 Forgé de fers, aundyrnes [v.r. in Rel. Ant. II. 84 Furchez de ferz, aund hirnes]. c1314 Guy Warw. 250 An aundiren he kept in his honden.
1609 Acc. Feoffees of Rotherham 8 For mending of a handyron in the chamber, 8d.
1616 Ibid., For mendinge the Scowll house landyron, 8d.
1611 SHAKES. Cymb. II. iv. 88 Her Andirons..were two winking Cupids Of Siluer.
1626 BACON Sylva §178 If you strike..an Andiron of brass, at the top, it maketh a more treble sound.
1650 FULLER Pisgah Sight III. vi. 390 Like brazen andirons in great mens chimnies.

fire-barrel, a cylinder filled with combustibles, used in fire-ships

Iron monger:A dealer in ironware; a hardware merchant
1613 BEAUM. & FL. Cupids Rev. IV. iii, Come, let's call up the new Iremonger, he's as tough as Steel.

language hat  •  Link

andirons:
As you can see from Aqua's OED quote, nothing to do with "end irons."

Grahamt  •  Link

"...nothing to do with "end irons.""
I see that now (lost my SOED disc, so I guessed the etymology)
Strangely, despite the French origin of andiron, the French call them Chenets (little dogs) so same concept as English, though a different etymology (from Latin canus)

Second Reading

Bill  •  Link

“the Prerogative Office in Paternoster Row”

The Prerogative Will Office was situated in Paternoster Row (or rather in Ivy Lane) before it was transferred to Doctors' Commons.
---Wheatley, 1893.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Sandwich apparently stood up for Ned Pickering for a long time, to his own detriment. Apparently he's had enough:

http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Friday 31 July 1663 ...

" ... to the Exchange, where I met Dr. Pierce, who tells me ... my Lord hath lost much honor in standing so long and so much for that coxcomb Pickering, and at last not carrying it for him; but hath his name struck out by the King and Queen themselves after he had been in ever since the Queen’s coming,"

Robert Harneis  •  Link

dirk on 8 Sep 2006 "Are there any pictorial references to the Pepys house fully furnished?" Sorry to be so slow in commenting dirk - hope you are still with us. I recommend a visit to Flamsteed House, the home of the Astronomer Royal built in 1675, in the Royal park at Greenwich. I imagine Pepys would have visited it after the Diary ended. Well worth a visit anyway. http://www.rmg.co.uk/see-do/we-re…

Gerald Berg  •  Link

Spread Eagle?

So the sight of sluts turned his stomach. Poor Pepys! What first turned to get him there?

Chris Squire UK  •  Link

Re: ’ . . I reckon nothing money but when it is in the bank . .’

‘bank, n.3 < Middle French banc moneylender's counter . .

I. A financial establishment.
1. a. The shop, office, or place of business of a money changer or moneylender . .
. . 1649 Bp. J. Taylor Great Exemplar ii. 21 Exchangers of Money made the temple to be the market and the banke.

. . 2. a. An institution that invests money deposited by customers or subscribers, typically pays interest on deposits . . The sense in some of the early examples is unclear, and may be closer to that of sense 1a.
. . 1601 G. de Malynes Treat. Canker Englands Commonw. ii. 23 Peter hath two thousand ducats in the Banke... Peter hath occasion to pay vnto Iohn one thousand ducats, he goeth to the Bankers..and requireth them to pay one thousand ducats vnto Iohn, whereupon they presently make Peter debter for one thousand ducats, and Iohn creditour for the same summe.
1677 A. Yarranton England's Improvem. 11 Having one son at Venice, one at Noremberge, one at Hamburgh, and one at Dantzick, where Banks are, I desire four Tickets of Credit, each of them for a Thousand pounds.
1696 W. Killigrew Proposal 15 Under the Security of the Government, Men will not be lyable to such Losses, as has been by Private Banks . . ‘
(OED)

Third Reading

Ruslan  •  Link

Broken link on the Wayback machine.

AndyK on 8 Sep 2006
> Fire Dogs are the same thing as Andirons.... Although I don't think you'll here them called that in the UK. Various examples can be seen at…

https://web.archive.org/web/20060…

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