Bradford on 7 Dec 2006  •  Link

"Anon the King and Duke and Duchesse came to dinner in the Vane-roome, where I never saw them before; but it seems since the tables are done, he dines there all together."

"since the tables are done"
---translation: since dining tables made especially for this room were finished and brought in?

Dear Sam, seeking to cross paths with someone whom you fear may be displeased with you is not likely to bring peace of mind, whether you miss that person, or meet them.

Terry F on 7 Dec 2006  •  Link

"last night the greatest tide that ever was remembered in England to have been in this river: all White Hall having been drowned"

L&M note a spring tide and a northerly gale in the North Sea had coincided - not the first time Whitehall - lying along the Thames - had suffered water damage.

"Around new and full moon when the Sun, Moon and Earth form a line (a condition known as syzygy), the tidal forces due to the Sun reinforce those of the Moon. The tides' range is then at its maximum: this is called the 'spring tide,' or just 'springs' and is derived not from the season of spring but rather from the verb 'to jump' or 'to leap up.'" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide

Glyn on 7 Dec 2006  •  Link

Has there been a lot of rain recently? The surge in tides might have coincided with excessive rainwater flowing into the Thames upriver and flowing down to London to meet the tidal water coming the other way.

jeannine on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

"and found my wife this cold day not yet out of bed" ... sounds like Elizabeth is still feeling pretty uncomfortable. Must be bored to tears too!

Kilroy on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

Knew difference between spring and neap tides. But never why they're called such. Reason for spring tide makes sense. But what about neap? Any relation to the pole on a wagon between draft animals?

Terry F on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

neap
O.E. nepflod "neap flood," the tide occurring at the end of the first and third quarters of the lunar month, in which high waters are at their lowest, of unknown origin, with no known cognates (Dan. niptid probably is from English). Original sense seems to be "without power." http://www.etymonline.com/index.p…

but the OED likely says more.

Bryan M on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

"last night the greatest tide that ever was remembered in England to have been in this river: all White Hall having been drowned"

The highest spring tides of the year occur each summer and winter. These are "king tides", which seems appropriate since it was Whitehall that was flooded. Extending the regal connection to the limit, the explanation of the occurrence of king tides below is taken from a Queensland government website.

Thinking about the perihelion in early January (below), hasn't there been an adjustment of dates since the seventeenth century so that Sam's 7 December would be a later date by our calendar? (Or is it earlier?)

King Tides:

"In a lunar month the highest tides occur at the time of the new moon and full moon (when the gravitational forces of sun and moon are in line) these are called "spring" tides and they occur about every 14 days. The highest of the spring tides occur during the summer months of December, January and February and also in the winter months of June, July and August.

Accordingly in any one year there will be two spring tides that are the highest for the year - one during summer and one during winter. These are referred to as "king tides".

The "king tides" occur because of the combined influence of a number astronomical factors which are related to the sun and the moon (and their alignments), and the gravitational attraction they each have on the water surface of the earth.

The earth moves around the sun in an elliptical orbit that takes a little over 365 days to complete. The sun has an influence on the tides. Its gravitational force is greatest when the earth is closest to the sun (perihelion early January each year) and least when the sun is furthest from earth (aphelion early July each year).

The moon has a larger effect in the tides than does the sun.

The moon moves around the earth in its elliptical orbit that takes about 29 days to complete. In a lunar month the highest tides occur at the time of the new moon and full moon (when the gravitational forces of sun and moon are in line) these are called "spring" tides and they occur about every 14 days. Because of the elliptical orbit, the distance between the moon and earth changes. The gravitational force is greatest when the moon is closest to earth (perigee) and least when it is furthest from the earth (apogee) about two weeks after perigee.

The combined effect of the moon's phase and the varying gravitational forces of the sun and moon result in the highest of the spring tides occurring during the summer months of December, January and February and also in the winter months of June, July and August."

From: http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/qt/msq.…

Paul Chapin on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

Time to play the link-the-pronouns game again.
Here's my guess:
"But here I met Dr. Clerke, and did tell him my story of my health; how my pain comes to me now-a-days. He did write something for me which I shall take when there is occasion. I then fell to other discourse of Dr. Knapp, who tells me he [Knapp] is the King's physician, and is become a solicitor for places for people, and I am mightily troubled with him [Knapp]. He [Clerke] tells me he [Knapp] is the most impudent fellow in the world, that gives himself [Knapp] out to be the King's physician, but it is not so, but is cast out of the Court."

djc on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

The flood is not just a consequence of the spring tide but also of the northly wind.
see
http://www.environment-agency.gov…

(sorry for long stupid URL. links to
a page at www.environment-agency.gov.uk Regions > Thames Region > Key Issues > Flooding > The Thames Barrier > The Flood Threat

Australian Susan on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

King tide is an Australian term, but not, I think, a British one: when I lived in the UK, only the terms spring and neap were used: I have only heard the term King Tide since living here (in same city as Bryan M!) What do others think?

I actually envy Beth being able to snuggle up in bed and stay cosy warm with a good book: the equivalent here is being able to lie about in the air-con whilst others get sweaty and smelly.
In the 19th c book, The Tenent of Wildfell Hall, there is a reference to agricultural workers staying in bed in the winter if they had no work to do as they couldn't afford to waste burning wood or coal for no reason. I don't think beth would be staying in bed to economise on heating, but maybe Sam approves!!

ian on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

Thanks, djc, for this v interesting link where (incredibly) a 2006 British government report actually quotes this day's entry from Sam's diary. I particularly enjoyed the additional information that Thames flooding may also be caused by "the tilting of the British Isles (with the south eastern corner tipping downwards)". All of us living in France are watching with interest for further tilting down of the South East of the British Isles.

Andrew Hamilton on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

In regards to neap:

Interesting word. The wagon tongue and the tide have different etymological roots, per OED. Of the former it says,

[Prob. the reflex of a borrowing < early Scandinavian (cf. Icelandic neip (17th cent.; also in form gneip) the space between two fingers, Faeroese neip pillar, support, Norwegian (Nynorsk) neip forked pole, brace, fishing tool with two hooks on a crossbar), prob. < an ablaut variant of the Scandinavian base of Old Icelandic gnípa mountain peak (see NIP n.1).]

1. The pole or tongue of a cart. In later use U.S. regional (chiefly New England). Now rare.

And of the latter,

[Origin unknown. Cf. German regional (Low German: East Friesland) Nippflood, Nipptide, German Nippflut (1827 or earlier), Nipptide, Swedish nipflod (1881), niptid (1887), Danish nipflod (1880 or earlier), niptid (1756 or earlier; also in form neptid), all late borrowings, prob. ult. from English. Connections with the Germanic bases of NIP v.1 and NEB n. have been suggested, but are difficult to explain phonologically and semantically.
In Old English only in the compound n{emac}pfl{omac}d except for one isolated (and disputed) attestation Exodus (in a passage describing the destruction of the Egyptian host in the Red Sea) where it app. has the basic sense 'lacking power, enfeebled', specifically in the context 'lacking power (of forward movement)':
OE Exodus 470 Mægen wæs on cwealme fæste gefeterod, for{edh}ganges nep, searwum asæled.
Bright's emendation of this word to weg (Mod. Lang. Notes (1912) 27 18) is unconvincing.]

A. adj. Designating or relating to a tide occurring just after the first or third quarters of the moon, when the high-water level is lowest and there is least difference between high- and low-water levels; opposed to SPRING TIDE n. 2. Formerly also, {dag}of a point in time: coinciding with a neap tide (obs.). Also fig.

Arising from the second meansing, there is the wonderful word "neapness,"

Of a tide: the condition of being at the neap.
1720 J. STRYPE Stow's Survey of London (rev. ed.) I. I. vi. 32/2 The Tydes were very slack, and in a manner at the very neapness. 1972 J. BARTH Chimera 145 All I sense is the current neapness! If Bellerophon might rebegin, unclogged, unsilted! Time and tide, however, et cetera.

A. Hamilton on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

Tide in the streets of Whitehall

L&M notes the syzygystical condition of the heavens that brought this about. FYI, "syzygy" from the Greek "yoke, pair, copulation, conjunction" through late Latin (cf French syzygie") has at least seven distinctive meanings that differ when the term is used in astronomy, anatomy, biology, prosody, math, logic and Gnosticism. Within astronomy, the term once applied only to the conjunction of the moon and sun, in the sense used by L&M, but OED says this restrictive usage is now obsolete, and that the word applies equally to the conjunction or opposition of any two heavenly bodies -- and so, I'd suggest, to the plot of most romantic movies.
(In fairness to the OED, they actually say: "Now extended to include both conjunction and opposition (OPPOSITION 3) of two heavenly bodies, or either of the points at which these take place, esp. in the case of the moon with the sun (new and full moon). Often opposed to QUADRATURE 4b, c."

alanB on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

why doesn't Sam suggest to the King that he constructs a Thames Barrier? Sure would help against any Dutch surprises. Didn't we have flooding a lunar month ago(or two) when the kitchens were under water? Two spring tides so close together does not seem right. Frost at night in GB is invariably an anticyclonic(high pressure)event with clear skies and little wind. Perhaps White Hall was simply in the wrong place i.e. too low.

Mary on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

Spring tides.

These occur twice each lunar month: once at new moon and once at full moon. The neap tides, of course, occur during the other two quarters.

As regards flooding, we need to remember that the Thames was not enclosed by embankments until Victorian times, so a high tide, especially if augmented by a following wind, had little to stop it invading the city.

Xjy on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

"neap"
Onions agrees with the OED - weak, without strength.
Skeat is more fun, relating it to "nip" as in pinch, having lost the Germanic k (knip) which gives lots of cognates in German and Swedish etc, including "knife". The tide has a vowel change to the more open ea and a meaning of scanty, originally pinched. Modern Swedish has "knapp" scarce, and "näppeligen" scarcely.

The Germanic origin fits in with old Viking and pre-Viking seafaring traditions. And "spring" has an explosive origin, not so much "leap" (or Mod. Swedish "run") as split, crack, burst, explode (spring a leak, wellspring, spring a mine, spring a prisoner, a sprung cricket bat). So an explosive tide, a sea-burst.
A non-nasalized cognate is eg Mod Swedish "spricka, sprack, spruckit" -- split, burst -- which in turn is related to Mod German "sprechen" and our own r-less "speak", from the Teutonic base SPRAK to make a noise, cf M Sw "spraka" crackle (of a fire) and our metathesized "spark", "sparkle", a crackling of sound or light. Ie as Aqua/Saltygrain might say, thy crackst open thee gob and spoutst.
Spring sprung, and sparkling speech sprang from lovers' lips.

Terry F on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

Thanks, Paul Chapin, for the pronominal clarity (once again).

L&M note that five days ago, 2 Dec., John Knapp, styling himself [somewhat pompously] "'dr. medecinae', had written [presumtously] to his 'honoured friend Mr. Peeps'" concerning the latter's supposed promise to appoint a man named "George Gouye [? Gouge]" surgeon on a frigate.

Having the power to place a man on a ship is evidently both a blessing (?) and a curse.

A. Hamilton on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

To xjy

a tour de force, to which I can only reply, in the immortal words of Walt Keyy,

How distant grows the hazy yon
How myrtle-petalled thou
For spring hath sprung the cyclotron.
How high browze thou, brown cow?

language hat on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

"Onions agrees with the OED"
He would, since he was the OED's etymologist.

Ruben on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

Spring tides
300 years ago water moved freely and inundated the beaches and low places. After enbankment works and the filling of beaches for urban projects and ports, the estuary became "non elastic" concerning the quantity of water it could hold, so the tide become more violent and higher than before.

cumgranosalis on 8 Dec 2006  •  Link

Spring tides: Dothe thee all forget, there be a neat bridge that would prevent the barge of the king from being sprung and removed to hide in Hole Haven, that this weir would prevent waters rushing out, there by keeping upstream excess waters for the next inrush of waters from the German ocean..

cumgranosalis on 9 Dec 2006  •  Link

Sam studies the tides "...learning to understand the course of the tides, and I think I do now do it...."
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

Ruben on 9 Dec 2006  •  Link

learning to understand the course of the tides,
In those days Samuel could learn the course of the tides but could not understand why they happened, because gravitation was still to be born in Newton's mind.
Newton was a slow writer. May be he knew the answer already, but he kept the new knowledge mums until 1684.

Terry Foreman on 27 Apr 2015  •  Link

"The Queene is pretty well"

For her illness, see http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

Terry Foreman on 27 Apr 2015  •  Link

"The King of France, they say, is hiring of sixty sail of ships of the Dutch, but it is not said for what design."

There is no mention of his hiring ships in the printed correspondence of d'Estrade, French ambassador to Holland. Bur Louis bought warships from the Dutch (17 altogether by 1666) to strengthen a naval force which amounted to only c. 20 ships of the line in 1661. See Downing to Clarendon, 18 December 1663: Bodl. Clar. 107ff. 45+ &c. For similar rumours about France see
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… (Per L&"M footnote)

Terry Foreman on 28 Oct 2016  •  Link

A slightly better version of the Thames region flooding URL djc wrestled with

http://webarchive.nationalarchive…

Terry Foreman on 28 Oct 2016  •  Link

A text-fix and clarification from L&M:

"Anon the King and Duke and Duchesse came to dinner in the Vane-roome, where I never saw them before; but it seems, since the tables are down, he dines there altogether. "

In August. to save money, public dining days by members of the royal family on certain days of the week before 'Persons of good Fashion and good Appearance' had been discontinued. This practice had been instituted in late 1660: http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… The King had dined at a raised table enclosed by a rail.

San Diego Sarah on 6 Dec 2016  •  Link

I'd love to know what "altogether" means here ... "In the altogether" means naked in British slang, so that was my first mental picture! Clearly erroneous -- too cold. The tables being down probably means that they had been folded up and put away (a la hotel banquet/ball rooms today). So Charles II has started dining at a raised table enclosed by a rail with just a few people recently ... maybe "altogether" means this was becoming a frequent event.

This change could be a sign that Charles' efforts at "austerity" were easing? We know Carteret's message last week that the Navy's bills were current was not true ... see http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… ... so perhaps someone in the central accounting office had fudged the books and had announced good news prematurely ... or some other source of funds had presented itself? It's impossible to make a case with only two examples.

Alternatively, perhaps Charles thought it was important to show he wasn't intimidated by the recent plotters, and that in spite of Catherine's illness, everything was normal at Court. see http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… for the plot.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall. So many questions.

Terry Foreman on 7 Dec 2016  •  Link

"Anon the King and Duke and Duchesse came to dinner in the Vane-roome, where I never saw them before; but it seems, since the tables are down, he dines there altogether. "
-- "I'd love to know what "altogether" means here ... "In the altogether" means naked in British slang, so that was my first mental picture!;"

So, San Diego Sarah, for a brief moment there flashed before your eyes the idea that Pepys wrote "he dines there in the altogether"! Leaving you the vision of the buff Charles, I bet Pepys means that the King and other royals have abandoned the elaborate and costly public dining schedule at a fancy elevated table (plus dining and protocol staff) in the Queen's "Presence Room" for a far more modest venue altogether = totally! in Southern California slang .

When Pepys recorded -- in 1660 --the start of the run now abandoned:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

Louise Hudson on 8 Dec 2016  •  Link

Australian Susan: "I actually envy Beth being able to snuggle up in bed and stay cosy warm with a good book: the equivalent here is being able to lie about in the air-con whilst others get sweaty and smelly."

I don't think lying in bed when you're sick or in pain is any kind of pleasure. It's nothing like playing hooky. In fact, I've found it dreadful. I doubt Beth is taking a nice day off. She's most likely in a great deal of pain and would give anything to be able to be up and doing something instead of being bedbound. Even the agricultural workers who stayed in bed to save on heat couldn't have been having a pleasant time of it.

San Diego Sarah on 8 Dec 2016  •  Link

Yer, Terry ... it was quite a vision for a moment.

Anyways, to quote your annotation of 28 Oct., 2016, "In August. to save money, public dining days by members of the royal family on certain days of the week before 'Persons of good Fashion and good Appearance' had been discontinued." Sadly you didn't give the link, and I have been unable to find it.

So my reading of this was that the royal family had taken up public dining again, but in modest surroundings.

Terry Foreman on 8 Dec 2016  •  Link

"So my reading of this was that the royal family had taken up public dining again, but in modest surroundings."

I gathered that's about right: but not for a display on scheduled days: apparently the Vane Room is accessible to others (not royals or their retainers, e.g. Pepys), but not "citizens". I find this puzzling: many parts if Whitehall palace do not seem to be exactly private spaces per se. http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclo…

StanB on 8 Dec 2016  •  Link

and so, after reading in Rushworth, home to supper and to bed.

John Rushworth (c.1612 – 12 May 1690) Parlimentarian
Historical Collections and also known as the Rushworth Papers.
With my interest in the English Civil War I'm well aware of John Rushworth he was such an interesting character, pretty much the 17th century equivalent of a 21st Century Indentured War Correspondent
He was active at and followed the battles of Edge Hill (1642), Newbury (1643 and 1644), Marston Moor (1644) and Naseby (1645) also He reported the Battle of Preston (1648) and the Battle of Worcester (1651).
In 1645 he became secretary to Thomas Fairfax, He also covered the arrest and trial of Charles 1st
Following the execution of Charles I in 1649, Rushworth became personal secretary to Oliver Cromwell. So this guy was a mover and shaker and at one point was implicated to an extent in the trial and execution of Charles 1st
Surprisingly/amazingly he escaped the Restoration Purge and is extraordinary life doesn't stop there,
His writings found favour in America where they served as a source of inspiration for one of the Founding Fathers and 3rd President of the USA Thomas Jefferson
Later in his life the colony of Massachusetts employed him as its agent at a salary of twelve guineas a year.
Thomas Jefferson bought a copy of Rushworth's Historical Collections for use in his own library and he often quoted from them and undoubtedly the Cause and Effect Rushworth wrote about in the journals regarding the English Civil Wars that Sam read from today reverberated down into the American Declaration of Independence that Jefferson was the primary author of.
There's so much more i haven't added here,
Look him up guys

Like i said a very interesting character and an extraordinary life

Sasha Clarkson on 8 Dec 2016  •  Link

If one adds 10 days to Pepys' dates to convert to Gregorian, it turns out that the moon phases in 1663 were very similar to those of 2016.

It turn out that December 4th/14th in 1663 was a perigeal full moon (a Supermoon), which would result in very high tidal ranges, the highest being two days after the full moon, which means that the highest tide in London would have been "last night" (for Sam) at 9-10pm. Given that it's frosty, not wet suggests that there was also an east/north-east wind which would have increased the Thames' tidal surge.

More info:
http://www.astropixels.com/epheme…
http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview…
http://www.ukho.gov.uk/easytide/E…

Chris Squire UK on 16 Dec 2016  •  Link

Re: ‘ . . he dines there all together.’

‘altogether, adj., n., and adv. . . C. adv.
1. b. Used at the end of a clause or sentence for emphasis. Now colloq. and regional (chiefly Irish English ).
1876 J. H. Grover That Rascal Pat in New York Drama 3 32/2, I begs your pardon, sur. It's an optical delusion altogether . . ‘

(OED)
………
nothing to do with:

‘ . . 4. colloq. Usu. with the. The state of nakedness, the nude. Freq. in in the (also one's) altogether.
The expression appears to have been popularized by the novel Trilby by G. du Maurier, although in that context ‘the altogether’ appears strictly to mean ‘(a portrait of) the full body’ (as opposed to the face, hands, etc.), with the idea of nudity being secondary or implicit.
[1894 G. Du Maurier Trilby I. i. 25 ‘I'm posing for Durien the sculptor, on the next floor. I pose to him for the altogether.’ ‘The altogether?’ asked Little Billee. ‘Yes—l'ensemble, you know—heads, hands, and feet—everything—especially feet.’] . . ‘

eileen d. on 23 Apr 2018  •  Link

Stan B: not sure how it's done, but surely your post about Rushworth should be added to the annotations at the Rushworth link in our encyclopedia... fascinating!