Monday 5 September 1664

Up and to St. James’s, and there did our business with the Duke; where all our discourse of warr in the highest measure. Prince Rupert was with us; who is fitting himself to go to sea in the Heneretta. And afterwards in White Hall I met him and Mr. Gray, and he spoke to me, and in other discourse, says he, “God damn me, I can answer but for one ship, and in that I will do my part; for it is not in that as in an army, where a man can command every thing.”

By and by to a Committee for the Fishery, the Duke of Yorke there, where, after Duke was made Secretary, we fell to name a Committee, whereof I was willing to be one, because I would have my hand in the business, to understand it and be known in doing something in it; and so, after cutting out work for the Committee, we rose, and I to my wife to Unthanke’s, and with her from shop to shop, laying out near 10l. this morning in clothes for her. And so I to the ’Change, where a while, and so home and to dinner, and thither came W. Bowyer and dined with us; but strange to see how he could not endure onyons in sauce to lamb, but was overcome with the sight of it, and so was forced to make his dinner of an egg or two. He tells us how Mrs. Lane is undone, by her marrying so bad, and desires to speak with me, which I know is wholly to get me to do something for her to get her husband a place, which he is in no wise fit for.

After dinner down to Woolwich with a gally, and then to Deptford, and so home, all the way reading Sir J. Suck[l]ing’s “Aglaura,” which, methinks, is but a mean play; nothing of design in it.

Coming home it is strange to see how I was troubled to find my wife, but in a necessary compliment, expecting Mr. Pen to see her, who had been there and was by her people denied, which, he having been three times, she thought not fit he should be any more. But yet even this did raise my jealousy presently and much vex me. However, he did not come, which pleased me, and I to supper, and to the office till 9 o’clock or thereabouts, and so home to bed.

My aunt James had been here to-day with Kate Joyce twice to see us. The second time my wife was at home, and they it seems are going down to Brampton, which I am sorry for, for the charge that my father will be put to. But it must be borne with, and my mother has a mind to see them, but I do condemn myself mightily for my pride and contempt of my aunt and kindred that are not so high as myself, that I have not seen her all this while, nor invited her all this while.

32 Annotations

First Reading

Pedro  •  Link

The Henrietta link is to the yacht and not this warship...

In the Fleet List for April 65 the warship Henrietta is 3rd rate with 300 men and 58 guns under the command of Walter Woods.

On the 10th of August the yacht was is the Downs...

"Captain Pett came into the Downs in the Henrietta yacht" (Sandwich Journal).

Robert Gertz  •  Link

Denied or visited three times, then denied? Naturally the denied 3 is more fun for us...

JWB  •  Link

"But yet even this did raise my jealousy presently and much vex me."

Had Sam just read:

Aglaura I. v. 1-7.
"Thinke you it is not then
The little jealousies (my Lord) and feares,
Joy mixt with doubt, and doubt reviv'd with hope
That crownes all love with pleasure?"?

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

Phil, the link to "Mr. Pen" above should go to Junior, I think, rather than Sir William.

"But Mrs. Pepys, I just want to practice ma Francais avec vous!"

Love the dialog from Rupert. It's always great to "hear" a snatch of real dialog from that time...

Paul Chapin  •  Link

I agree with Todd. Sam always refers to Sir W. Penn as such, not "Mr. Pen." And besides, whatever else his complaints about the gouty old admiral, jealousy has not been one of them, for fairly clear reasons.

JWB  •  Link

"...where a man can command every thing." Ruprecht

Like calvary on the right at Naseby?

Australian Susan  •  Link

Onion sauce with lamb.

This will now be older lamb - the spring lamb would have had mint sauce to accompany it. Strange that he could not have had the lamb without the sauce - or maybe the lamb was served up smothered in the sauce? Sam obviously thinks the behaviour is rather odd as he notes it in the Diary. Reminds me of a gem from the great Kaz Cooke's Little Book of Diet and Exercise: "When eating at a friend's house, politely refuse anything they have cooked and instead eat paper-thin celery slices from your own Tupperware container." Here's a weblink for information about KC.
http://www.onyasoapbox.com/talent…

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"...where a man can command every thing."

But at least Cromwell's not there...

Australian Susan  •  Link

From yesterday: "..by which I shall leave myself very bare in clothes,.." and today "..and I to my wife to Unthanke's, and with her from shop to shop, laying out near 10l. this morning in clothes for her..." Very selfless behaviour here from the tailor's son! Wonder when we will next have a description of a fine velvet suit or whatever for himself.

jeannine  •  Link

"God damn me, I can answer but for one ship, and in that I will do my part; for it is not in that as in an army, where a man can command every thing."

I'd love to see Sam's face when he heard this comment. From Rupert's perspective I can imagine a sense of frustration as this is in a sense a demotion for him. In his younger days, under Charles I, he was a much more prominent player in battle and had a broader command of the Army. It probably hit at his ego to be moved from a more solo role of calling the shots to being a 'team player'. Plus the DOY is younger than he is, has far less skill in battle, etc. so having a younger, less experienced boss would be frustrating for anyone I suppose.

language hat  •  Link

"because I would have my hand in the business, to understand it and be known in doing something in it"

Pepys in a nutshell.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"...with her from shop to shop, laying out near 10l. this morning in clothes for her..."

Hmmn. Round up the usual suspects. Oh, right the thing with Jane.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

And of course the dashing young Mr. Penn with his fancy French education and elegant manners... Definitely time to show who's the better provider.

Rob  •  Link

What is "down to Woolwich with a gaily", please??

Terry F  •  Link

Mr. William Penn was born in October of 1644, and Elizabeth St. Michel b. in October 1640, so they are almost 20 and 24, contemporaries with hormones raging, and he just come back dandified and style-conscious from France -- not her native land, but where she was reared --, and so they may have lots to talk about. (I wonder if her shopping's at all informed by tips from Penn.)

Rob, "a gaily" is a galley, sc. large rowed boat, here a water-taxi on the Thames.

Cum Grano Salis  •  Link

Gaily? my ass u me for the day. It be a mis print and it could be "daily". Instead of taking the company boat or private Oarsman, Samuell, to save couple of farthings, for they be needed to fatten the wardrobe, decided to go with bus mob [hoydens] for his trip to Woolwich. There were regular Hoys [transports] from London bridge to the lower reaches of the thames that provide daily service for those that took their goods with them , or did not want a sore derriere or shaken
spine using a nag or the wheeled transport.
Hoy, a word in spanish meaning day but the Macadamiens say no connection, was the daily boat .

Hoy 'A small vessel, usually rigged as a sloop, and employed in carrying passengers and goods, particularly in short distances on the sea-coast' (Smyth Sailor's Word-bk.).from the Dutch word [MDu. hoei, pl. hoeyen].
1495
1661 PEPYS Diary 16 June, To hire a Margate Hoy.

hoyden 2. A rude, or ill-bred girl (or woman); a boisterous noisy girl, a romp.

Mary  •  Link

"down to Woolwich with a galley"

is the logical L&M reading. i.e. by boat.

Australian Susan  •  Link

Gaily, galley or daily

How we interpret this word gives insight into which bit of Sam's personality is dominant at this instance: he likes to save money, so our salty friend's concept of Sam getting the equivalent of a 'bus fits in, but he also likes to show he's a somebody in the Naval Office, so commanding a private vessel for himself to arrive in is important - making a bit of a fuss and a show as he gets out maybe. So either would fit. What is Sam being today? As he has just found himself (Oh Joy!) worth >1000 pounds and has gone round the dress shops and to the tailor's with ne'er a complaint (Although I take RG's point about the Jane aspect!), I think he is in expansive I'm worth something mood and this is a galley, not a daily. Maybe, he'll start taking that transport (or walking part of the way) when the dress bills come in....

Terry F  •  Link

gaily, galley

We've had the Q and a digressive discussion at least once before, and I quoted L&M's Large Glossary (in the Companion) of which my post above is a version.

Phil Gyford  •  Link

Thanks for the pointer re Mr Penn -- my mistake, now corrected. I've also added a page for gaily/gally to clear up the confusion in any future entries too.

Phil Gyford  •  Link

I've changed the link to the Henrietta -- there are two ships of this name, and they both now have separate pages in the Encyclopedia. Thanks to Pedro for the correction.

Kevin Peter  •  Link

W. Bowyer's refusal of onions reminds me very much of my wife. She hates the taste and texture of onions so much that she'll gag and spit up the food if she eats anything containing even a small amount of onions (raw or cooked). I suspect this is due to a bad childhood experience where she became sick and threw up after eating an onion-heavy meal. She will not touch anything with onions, even if it is something with onions in the sauce, like Sam is having served today. She would rather starve than eat food containing onions, which is strange to me, since I love onions. I usually will make a separate onion-free version of whatever I'm cooking so that she'll eat it.

I wouldn't surprise me if W. Bowyer has a similar loathing of onions, leaving him unable to eat the lamb.

Second Reading

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"He tells us how Mrs. Lane is undone, by her marrying so bad, and desires to speak with me, which I know is wholly to get me to do something for her to get her husband a place, which he is in no wise fit for."

"Us" means Elizabeth is there -- what a conversation to have in front of her. W. Bowyer is treading on thin ice.

Louise Hudson  •  Link

Sarah, I don't think Elizabeth must necessarily have been there. Haven't you ever spoken of you and your husband or another person as "us" or "we" even if the other person wasn't present? It's mean of Sam to refuse to find a job for Mr. Lane, seeing as how he's had his way with his wife. It seems to be the least he could do for her. The encyclopedia says they continued their affair long after Mr and Mrs. Lane were married. Sam expects sexual favors for nothing if he won't find even find a lowly position for her husband. What a self-centered cheapskate!

Tonyel  •  Link

Louise, I think you are being just a little unfair on Sam. It seems common knowledge that Mrs Lane has married a neer-do-well and that could reflect on Sam if he found him a job.
Mrs Lane must be equally disappointed in her choice of husband so an affair with Successful Sam could be considered a just compensation.
I am, of course, looking at it from a male perspective.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

I hope you are right, Louise. It's a difficult conversation to have otherwise -- could have been close to blackmail. And Tonyel's point about the male perspective ... that was the only one that counted. Sam benefited from Mrs. Lane's married state, although we are not to know at this point of their continued relationship. He hasn't exactly been dashing over there a lot lately, has he? His reluctance may have to do with not wanting this obligation to employ Mr. Lane.

Bryan  •  Link

He tells us how Mrs. Lane is undone...
An alternative explanation is that William Bowyer was unaware of SP's nefarious affair with Betty Lane/Martin and was simply passing on gossip to both SP and EP about a mutual acquaintance.
William Bowyer was a doorkeeper at the Exchequer. Betty Lane had her draper's stall in Westminster Hall which was practically next door and SP and EP earlier lived in nearby Axe Yard.

If you start at "...and I to my wife to Unthanke’s" it is fairly clear that the "us" refers to SP and EP.

Louise Hudson  •  Link

Yes, Tonyel. Indeed you are speaking from a male perspective, and I from a female one. If every woman who married a ne'er do well was to be punished in this way, there would be no end to it. In addition, she and Sam started the affair before whe was married, so all bets are off.

Sarah, Sam's reluctance may have had to do with not wanting this obligation to employ her husband. I suppose he gets testy when a little tit for tat is requested. Blackmail? Sam never suggested blackmail. He only said Betty Lane, now Martin, wanted to speak to him and he suspected it was to ask him to find a position for her husband. No blackmail was implied by Sam. It looks to me as if Betty is simply asking for a favor from a lover. She may have not realized how much of a lowlife she was marrying. If he had a job he might improve and so might her life. You can't blame a girl for trying to improve her lot. Sam does bigger favors for men he knows with whom he isn't having dalliances.

Elizabeth might have been present through all this but it doesn't mean he couldn't say something out of her earshot. Unthank's was probably a noisy place.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"... and so home and to dinner, and thither came W. Bowyer and dined with us; but strange to see how he could not endure onyons ... and so was forced to make his dinner of an egg or two. He tells us how Mrs. Lane is undone, by her marrying so bad, and desires to speak with me, which I know is wholly to get me to do something for her to get her husband a place, which he is in no wise fit for. After dinner down to Woolwich ..."

Louise, Bowyer "dined with US," "he tells US how Mrs. Lane is undone." It sounds to me like Bowyer is talking to Pepys about his girlfriend's desire to speak with him [Pepys] in front of Elizabeth. The only thing Pepys can do is agree and say he'll do what he can for Mr. Lane, who he doesn't consider employable, and change the subject. Just the fact Mrs. Lane is mentioned by Bowyer in front of Elizabeth implies pressure.

UNLESS, as suggested before, this didn't happen at the table, and Elizabeth wasn't there, in which case two of Mrs. Lane's admirers had a whispered conversation in the hallway as Bowyer was leaving. Pepys used the Royal We, and is trying to resign himself into being manipulated into employing the dude. Which is a nice, gentle form of arm twisting -- or blackmail -- by Mrs. Lane in this case. Pepys clearly isn't volunteering for the role.

I'm surprised Robert Gertz didn't do a riff about this highly compromised encounter.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"If every woman who married a ne'er do well was to be punished in this way, there would be no end to it."

Yes, women were "punished" for being married to a ne'er-do-well. There was no divorce, so they often lived in terrible circumstances.

Consider Robert Boyle's sister, Lettice, who was given a ten thousand pound dowry by her father, Richard Boyle, 1st Earl of Cork, when she married George Goring. Good ol' George owed a lot of gambling debts at Court, and was a drunkard and a womanizer, and soon the dowry was gone. So he goes back to the Earl and cadges more, and drags Lettice off to the Continent while he learns military ways, and then comes back to England penniless again, so the Earl pays for him to be general of a regiment during the Civil War to keep him occupied away from Court. Lettice died.

or the saga of Anne Stanley Brydges, Lady Chandos who made a disastrous marriage with Mervin Touchet, Earl of Castlehaven -- http://cupboardworld.blogspot.com…

Life without a bank account, credit, or rights was awful.

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