Thursday 3 November 1664

Up and to the office, where strange to see how Sir W. Pen is flocked to by people of all sorts against his going to sea. At the office did much business, among other an end of that that has troubled me long, the business of the bewpers and flags. At noon to the ’Change, and thence by appointment was met with Bagwell’s wife, and she followed me into Moorfields, and there into a drinking house, and all alone eat and drank together. I did there caress her, but though I did make some offer did not receive any compliance from her in what was bad, but very modestly she denied me, which I was glad to see and shall value her the better for it, and I hope never tempt her to any evil more. Thence back to the town, and we parted and I home, and then at the office late, where Sir W. Pen came to take his leave of me, being to-morrow, which is very sudden to us, to go on board to lie on board, but I think will come ashore again before the ship, the Charles,1 can go away. So home to supper and to bed.

This night Sir W. Batten did, among other things, tell me strange newes, which troubles me, that my Lord Sandwich will be sent Governor to Tangier, which, in some respects, indeed, I should be glad of, for the good of the place and the safety of his person; but I think his honour will suffer, and, it may be, his interest fail by his distance.

14 Annotations

First Reading

Patricia  •  Link

"...and I hope never tempt her to any evil more." Pssst, Sam: I don't think she was all that tempted. A revealing entry, illustrating the dual nature we all have, wanting both bad and good at the same time.

jeannine  •  Link

Sam’s to Mr. Coventry (from “Further Correspondence of Samuel Pepys” edited by Tanner)

3 November, 1664

. . . Tar rises mightily in the town, and besides what we have we are to expect but 200 lasts or thereabouts from Sir William Rider and Mr Cutler. Would to God Sir George Carteret could by ready money enable us to tempt merchants to sell, which I perceive everybody now desire to avoid at any price almost, in confidence of gaining by keeping their goods in their hands.

jeannine  •  Link

"and I hope never tempt her to any evil more."

My guess is that he'll be walking down the road to temptation fairly soon. What is interesting is that Sam usually writes what he did in a day but doesn't usually record any upcoming appointments he has made. Here he clearly states that he'd made an appointment so today's meeting was premeditated. I would guess he also set up a follow up appointment so there's no way Mrs. B is off the hook and Sam knows it.

Paul Chapin  •  Link

"against his going to sea"

"against" here meaning 'in preparation for,' not 'opposed to.'

Pedro  •  Link

Sir William Penn, who hoisted his flag in the “Royal James” on November 8th, shifted to the “Royal Charles” on November 30th.

Penn may well have raised his flag on the Royal James on the 8th, as Sam tells us that the Duke's flagship Charles is not yet ready to sail, and Penn has been dedicated the Captain of that ship. According to the Journal of Sandwich the Charles arrived with the fleet on the night of the 24th and on the 27th the whole fleet set sail. On the 30th the fleet was 6 leagues from Alderney and it seems strange that Penn would change ships at this point.

Pedro  •  Link

"The duke gave Penn the command of the fleet immediately under himself. On Penn’s monument he is styled “Great Captain Commander under His Royal Highness” (Penn’s “Memorials of Sir William Penn,” vol. ii., p. 296)."

The added note again seems to show inaccuracies. From the Journal of Sandwich the Fleet is divided into three squadrons as follows...

The Lord High Admiral, the Duke of York has the Red Squadron sailing on the Royal Charles, with his Vice-Admiral Sir John Lawson and Rear Admiral Sir W Berkley. Rupert has the White Squadron and Sandwich the Blue Squadron, with their Vice and Rear Admirals.

It is hard to see how Penn would take command of the Fleet if something happened to the Duke, ahead of the many ranks above him.The memorial inscription "Great Captain Commander under His Royal Highness" may help as it gives Penn his proper title.

(Maybe some with naval knowledge could confirm?)

JWB  •  Link

Sorta on subject, here's Philosopher Ross's short essay on Royal Navy Rank & Flags:

Naval flag rank developed because of the organization of British fleets in the 17th century. The commander of the whole fleet was a full Admiral, but the fleet might possess a more or less detached Van of ships, commanded by the Vice Admiral (Latin vicis, "stead," as in "viceroy"), and a more or less detached Rear of ships, commanded, most appropriately, by the Rear Admiral. The basic Admiral's flag was simply the red English cross of St. George on a white background. The varieties of this will be seen below. Another aspect of British naval flags concerned the "ensign," the flag flown on the stern of the ship. The British fleet of the 18th century was organized into three squadrons, a Red, a White, and a Blue. For each, the ensign was a flag of the appropriate color, with the British Union Flag as the "canton" or the upper quarter of the flag next to the hoist. The Union Flag of 1801 combines the red on white cross of St. George, for England, the white on blue X cross of St. Andrew, for Scotland, and a red on white X cross for St. Patrick, for Ireland, though this was never used as such by the Irish themselves. The Union Flag all by itself would be flown on the bow of the ship, usually just in harbor, and came to the called the "Union Jack," since a flag flown on the bow was the "jack." The White squadron, however, did not fly a completely white flag, which might look like a flag of surrender (or, earlier, like the white color of the Bourbons), but added the cross of St. George, again, in the white field. Horatio Nelson was an "Admiral of the White." Eventually, there were a lot more than three squadrons in the Royal Navy, and the various flags were confusing to foreign ships. In 1864 the White Ensign was selected as the distinctive flag for naval ships. Meanwhile, since 1674, the Red Ensign was already flown on merchant ships, so that continued as before. The Blue Ensign was given a distinctive function also, to indicate non-military government ships, or to be flown by civilian ships commanded and largely officered by officers in the Royal Naval Reserve. Fans of the movie Titanic will notice that the Titanic flew the Blue Ensign. The flags of Australia and New Zealand are both based on the Blue Ensign, while the flag of Canada used to be based on the Red Ensign. All of their navies use versions of the White Ensign. The White Ensign and Britsh naval flags also became the basis of the system of flags used by other countries, like Imperial Germany. In the United States Navy, the Stars and Stripes national flag is used as the Ensign, with the blue canton and stars of that flag as the Jack. The United States does not have different ensigns for navy, government, and private ships.

http://www.friesian.com/rank.htm

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"At noon to the ‘Change, and thence by appointment was met with Bagwell’s wife, and she followed me into Moorfields, and there into a drinking house, and all alone eat and drank together. I did there caress her, but though I did make some offer did not receive any compliance from her in what was bad, but very modestly she denied me, which I was glad to see and shall value her the better for it, and I hope never tempt her to any evil more."

Perhaps what's a bit scary is the detached way Sam is trying to more or less analyze the encounters with Mrs. B.

Ok...Sam is behaving horribly, abusing his little store of power and treating a young couple every bit as vulnerable as he and Bess were a few years ago as though they are toys for his amusement. And yet, why did Mrs. B meet him alone, go alone with him to a drinking house, and "all alone" eat and drink with him? She must be very attractive for Sam to take such a risk;can she really be so innocent as to trust the great Mr. Pepys in such questionable situations? I have argued that Mr. Bagwell is almost certainly pushing her from his side but one also has to suspect the Missus B may not be so blindly trusting as she seems.

Not that knowing what she may be in for would make her and even the overeager Mr. B any less Sam's victims.

Pedro  •  Link

Thanks JWB for the above site with the Memorial to Penn (1833) by his grandson Granville Penn. It is obviously written for the glorification of Sir William and to redress the balance of the accused knavery and dissimulation and other slurs in the Pepys' Diary...

"Then it was, that Sandwich's jealousy of Penn (that is the land-admiral to the sea-admiral) began to break forth, and with it, that also of his creature and shadow, Pepys. The friendship that he had commenced at the navy board, was at once corrupted to the root in the clerk of the acts...
It is also appears to be the source for the added note to the Diary on the 10th of October...

“The duke had decided that the English fleet should consist of three squadrons to be commanded by himself, Prince Rupert, and Lord Sandwich, from which arrangement the two last, who were land admirals; had concluded that Penn would have no concern in this fleet. Neither the duke, Rupert, nor Sandwich had ever been engaged in an encounter of fleets … Penn alone of the four was familiar with all these things. By the duke’s unexpected announcement that he should take Penn with him into his own ship, Rupert and Sandwich at once discovered that they would be really and practically under Penn’s command in everything.”

So would they be really and practically be under Penn? I think this is stretching a point. As far as rank is concerned their are others above Penn, and Granville actually says...

"Penn had been his (Sandwich) senior general at sea, but on the Restoration the King found it necessary to raise his nobilities and the families from their long depression; and Penn, who was only desirous to serve the Crown and country with consistency, cheerfully accepted a command subordinate to that of a junior, but enobled officer..."

The least experienced in Naval affairs would be the Lord High Admiral himself, and to take an old sea dog like Penn on his ship seems to be a wise move. As Granville points out the naval instructions issued by the Duke are virtually the copy of those that Penn was involved in at the First Dutch War.

Ollard in his biography of Sandwich does not record any jealousy of Penn, and when the Duke returned to London in December Sandwich took command of the fleet. He also says that the Duke commanded the centre, assisted by Sir William Penn serving in the unique appointment of Great Captain Commander...In case the fleet might have to fight in reverse order the Vice-Admiral of the Blue took station in the rear, not in the van, so that whatever happened the line would be led by a senior flag officer. In the Sandwich Journal the Councils of War seem to be meetings of flag officers and Penn, and on a concensus basis.

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"This night Sir W. Batten did, among other things, tell me strange newes, which troubles me, that my Lord Sandwich will be sent Governor to Tangier"

A canard. (L&M note)

StanB  •  Link

What was 17th century Gossip like did it really exist ?
Very much on topic given the sexual harassment claims currently exploding almost hourly-daily in Westminster at the moment prompting I believe a Sea-Change coming , and I believe and quite rightly so giving those affected a voice
Now given Sam's behaviour today and indeed throughout the Diary I think its safe to say that this kind of sexual flirting would have got Sam in very deep water had he been around today
So, what were the 17th Century Jungle Drums like given it was very much a male dominated world

Matt Newton  •  Link

And I see Sam appears to walk away from the tavern/ rondevous with Mrs.B.
Thence back to the town, and we parted and I home, and then at the office ...

Strange, to me, that he would leave with his 'friend'.
Far better, surely, to slip away alone and innocent?

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