Sunday 20 November 1664

(Lord’s day). Up, and with my wife to church, where Pegg Pen very fine in her new coloured silk suit laced with silver lace. Dined at home, and Mr. Sheply, lately come to town, with me. A great deal of ordinary discourse with him. Among other things praying him to speak to Stankes to look after our business. With him and in private with Mr. Bodham talking of our ropeyarde stores at Woolwich, which are mighty low, even to admiration. They gone, in the evening comes Mr. Andrews and sings with us, and he gone, I to Sir W. Batten’s, where Sir J. Minnes and he and I to talk about our letter to my Lord Treasurer, where his folly and simple confidence so great in a report so ridiculous that he hath drawn up to present to my Lord, nothing of it being true, that I was ashamed, and did roundly and in many words for an houre together talk boldly to him, which pleased Sir W. Batten and my Lady, but I was in the right, and was the willinger to do so before them, that they might see that I am somebody, and shall serve him so in his way another time.

So home vexed at this night’s passage, for I had been very hot with him, so to supper and to bed, out of order with this night’s vexation.

26 Annotations

First Reading

Terry F  •  Link

"even to [the point of] admiration"*

Admiration \Ad`mi*ra"tion\, n. [F., fr. L. admiratio. See {Admire}.]
1. Wonder; astonishment. [Obs.]

[1913 Webster]

"Season your admiration for a while With an attent ear. . . ."
Shakes. Hamlet Prince of Denmark (Horatio at I, ii)

*My editorial [] insert.

Patricia  •  Link

"that they might see that I am somebody," Don't you just love it! Smile, you're on Candid Diary.

Australian Susan  •  Link

So Pegg Penn is nearly as showy as Sam in her red silk outfit with silver edged lace. And it's the only thing he thinks worth commenting on about Church. Nothing on the sermon or other content of the service!

"Ordinary" here means to do with business I think.

"that they might see that I am somebody" Oh what a strutting little barnyard cock we are, crowing on our dunghill!

It seems Lady Batten sat in on their work talk. Unusual?

Pedro  •  Link

"They gone, in the evening comes Mr. Andrews and sings with us,"

Just how did they get rid of Seignor Pedro?

Tony Eldridge  •  Link

but I was in the right, and was the willinger to do so before them, that they might see that I am somebody, and shall serve him so in his way another time.

I read this as Sam showing Batten that he too should take note of Sam for future reference, ie Sam is no longer shy about facing down his elders.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

Judging from Sam's proud boast this is the first time he's dared confront Minnes so openly before others, particularly an office outsider like Lady Batten. Poor Sir John, to be so humiliated...I imagine in the past Sam has kept his criticism in office and between them, with the usual respectfully deferential manner.

I'd keep out of dark alleyways at night for a while, Sam.
***

"Ah, Pepys. Just in time." broad smile.

"Sir John? What are you...?"

"Rehearsing, Samuel. We are planning an amateur performance of a new adaptation of Shakespeare...Eh, boys?"

"Aye, sir." "Right, sir" "Yo."

"Here in the alley?"

"Sets the right mood, my boy."

"I see...Uh, Sir John, about yesterday with Sir Will and his Lady. Didn't mean to be harsh..."

"Oh, yes. Well, think nothing of it, Samuel. I understand an ambitious young man wants to display his abilities for all to see...Perhaps it's the duty of old men to suffer at their expense."

Ummn...

"But I say...Perhaps you could help us out here. We are at a critical scene in our adapted play... Have you ever seen "The Merchant of Venice", Samuel?"

"Why, no, Sir John?"

"Excellent. Then you'll certainly enjoy this. If would care to read my adaptation of this scene as Antonio? You'll see I've managed to compress several scenes from the original into one...I know how you prefer faster moving plays. And my version has a lot more thrills and chills..."

Hmmn... "Eh, what is this about a pound of...Sir John? Gentlemen?!"

"Hold him fast, boys. Now...Ah, yes. 'Hast not an old man eyes'...?"

jeannine  •  Link

"that they might see that I am somebody"

Oh, to be somebody....

An adaptation from the script of the movie,"The Jerk" with Sam taking the place of Steve Martin. The entire movie being about one idiot's desire to be 'somebody'. And now we see our Sam getting the new phone book.......


SAM :The new phone book's here!

BATTEN: I wish I could get that excited about nothing.

SAM: Nothing? Are you kidding? Page 47!
"Pepys, Samuel"
I'm somebody now! Millions of people
look at this book every day!..........

This is the kind of spontaneous publicity...

...your name in print, that makes people!

I'm in print!

jeannine  •  Link

"Just how did they get rid of Seignor Pedro?"

He probably sent him off to give Elizabeth singing lessons... we know that Sam thought him an ugly fellow so he'd be a much safer choice to keep her busy that the dance master Pembleton. Now if only we had a picture of that Pedro to see if what Sam said about him was true....

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"Seignor Pedro...?" Bess, careful glance round.

"At your service, madam." careful glance round. "I see Mr. Pepys is away."

"Oh, yeah. At his office as usual..."

"Excellent." the good senor removes makeup and stomach pouch, revealing the handsome face and figure of Antonio Banderas' amazingly identical ancestor.

"Then I think, my dear one...At your husband's gracious command, we are ready to begin our... 'Singing lessons'."

"Ohhh...Yeahhh."

(Thanks, Jeannine.)

(Ok, so Gay likes him...It was her idea.)

cgs  •  Link

"I’d keep out of dark alleyways at night for a while, Sam."
***
better than a blind ale house?
'tis up the blind alley [stuck in a close ] with no way out would be a real challenge..

cgs  •  Link

"...where his folly and simple confidence so great in a report so ridiculous that he hath drawn up to present to my Lord, nothing of it being true, that I was ashamed,..."
Not many have the temerity to openly correct and critique ones leader,

usually it be thus.

"magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum."
Seneca the younger Proverbs , 74

'til thee be the one with reigns.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

Poor Sir John...Hardly the leader of anything, butt of all, an intelligent and scholarly man past his prime and in a job he clearly isn't suited for but obviously is anxious to hang onto.

I can't imagine much worse than being Minnes having eager, ruthless Sam Pepys ambitiously snapping at the heels.

Andrew Hamilton  •  Link

Peg Penn

Her age a question. From the reference given by vicente (Peg Penn born 1651), she'd be at most 13 years old at the time of this entry, and that seems unlikely given Sam's comment on her dress. Pauline's entry gives her birth year as 1636, which would make her in her late 20's here. But as vicente points out, that date is unlikely as Sir William her father would have been only 13 (that pesky age again) at the time. Is there any more information we should know? Do we know if she was older or younger than William the son?

Mary  •  Link

Peg Penn

This Peg Penn is surely Margaret Penn, the daughter of Marie and John Jasper of Ballycase, County Clare. She married, firstly, Nicasius van der Schuren and then, after his death, William Penn (knighted 1660) in 1643. L&M Companion does not give her date of birth, but notes that she died in Walthamstow in 1672. Notable Quaker, William Penn, was her eldest son, born 1644,

Robert Gertz  •  Link

I have to believe with Phil that this is the daughter, Meg. I don't think Sam would ever refer to Lady Penn as "Pegg Penn". It seems much more likely that this is Margaret Jr. and there is some uncertainly about either or both father's and daughter's birth dates. Certainly Admiral Sir Will was a seasoned commander in the 1650's when he fought for Cromwell and if he fathered Pegg at say 17, the 1636 birthdate for Meg would not be too far off, allowing that he was perhaps just a little older than the 1621 birthdate. An intriguing mystery, especially in light of (spoiler)...

...future events with Meg.

Pedro  •  Link

Square pegs in round holes.

Up to this point there are 29 references to Peg Penn, the daughter in Phil’s background, and the entry for the daughter in L&M seems to be under Lowther, her future husband, where they say he married Peg Penn, daughter of Sir William Penn.

On the other hand Lady Margaret Penn has only 4 references in the background, and seems to have been away for some time and she lands on 16th August 1664.

Assuming Penn was not previously married, then the daughter would probably been born after 1643, the date of the marriage. She could therefore be about 21?

Pedro  •  Link

The age of Margaret Penn.

Looking on Peerage.com, a genealogical survey of the peerage of Britain as well as the royal families of Europe, the best that can be found is that she was born before 1651.

Margaret Penn was born before 1651. She was the daughter of Admiral Sir William Penn. She married Anthony Lowther, son of Robert Lowther and Elizabeth Holcroft, circa February 1666/67.
Her married name became Lowther.

Anthony Lowther was born before 1652. He was the son of Robert Lowther and Elizabeth Holcroft. He married Margaret Penn, daughter of Admiral Sir William Penn, circa February 1666/67. He died on 27 January 1692.
Margaret Penn
F, #12216, b. before 1651

http://www.thepeerage.com/p1222.h…

Mary  •  Link

Mea culpa.

Apologies to all. Just shows that you shouldn't rush to annotate just before dashing off to catch a train.

pepfie  •  Link

Nil admirari.

"It seems Lady Batten sat in on their work talk. Unusual?"

"...our letter to my Lord Treasurer..."
Sir J. Mennes' draft of a letter or report wasn't strictly official business, I presume, considering their desire to get into the prize office for their extraordinary pains.
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
This might explain our li'l red rooster's heated argument in front of an outsider.

"Just how did they get rid of Seignor Pedro?"

He was paid off and laid off three months ago.
"Thence home, and, though late, yet Pedro being there, he sang a song and parted. I did give him 5s., but find it burdensome and so will break up the meeting."
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

Second Reading

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

pepfie on 27 Mar 2011 suggests "... our letter to my Lord Treasurer ..." was a draft proposal from Comptroller of the Navy, Sir J. Mennes, to argue for including them in the cut of "profits" generated by the prize office. Lady Batten was included in Pepys' and Batten's initial conversation, so evidently she had a useful point-of-view on this "opportunity". Does a copy of this proposal survive? Does it raise funds for things Surveyor Batton wanted to build (e.g. the new rope yard, improved port fortifications, etc.), or was it to reward all the Navy Board members for their hard work readying the fleet for this war (which I think was doing their jobs).

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"... with Mr. Bodham talking of our ropeyarde stores at Woolwich, which are mighty low, even to admiration."

Admiration????

Bill  •  Link

"talking of our ropeyarde stores at Woolwich, which are mighty low, even to admiration."

To ADMIRE, to look upon with wonder, to be surpriz'd at.
WONDERFUL, very strange and surprizing.
---N. Bailey. An universal etymological English dictionary, 1734

Chris Squire UK  •  Link

Re: ' . . which are mighty low, even to admiration . . '

'admiration, n. < Middle French
1. The action or an act of wondering or marvelling; wonder, astonishment, surprise. Now rare.
1696   J. Asgill Several Assertions Proved xiii. 42   The plain appearance of them raises an admiration, that they were never before observed.
. . 1953   V. Randolph & G. P. Wilson Down in Holler 85  Admiration, usually shortened to miration, still means wonderment or surprise in the Ozarks.'

(OED)

Chris Squire UK  •  Link

Re: ' . . A great deal of ordinary discourse with him.'

‘ordinary, adj. and adv. < Anglo-Norman . .
. . 2. a. . . occurring in the course of regular custom or practice; normal; customary; usual.
. . 1657 R. Ligon True Hist. Barbados 4 Her ordinary flying..is commonly more free then the best Haggard Faulcon . . ‘

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"Up, and with my wife to church, where Pegg Pen very fine in her new coloured silk suit laced with silver lace."

Mistress Pegg is now of marriageable age. There are many reasons to go to church: to be seen is one of the most obvious. How she looks reflects on her parents and their ability to provide a substantial dowry. And Queen Catherine set the fashion:

http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Friday 24 June 1664
"Thence with him to the Park, and there met the Queen coming from Chappel, with her Maids of Honor, all in silver-lace gowns again: which is new to me, and that which I did not think would have been brought up again."

And Elizabeth had succumbed:
August 12, 1664:
"... going to Stevens the silversmith to change some old silver lace and to go buy new silke lace for a petticoat ..."

I wonder if Pepys comment about wondering at the subject being brought up again might refer back to King James' time when the 1st Duke of Buckingham's brother-in-law, Giles Mompesson MP, had brought great disgrace on the family by over-farming his allotment and stealing from the goldsmiths. Silver and gold thread were costly and the subject of easy fraud and graft.
https://www.historyofparliamenton…

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