Monday 27 February 1664/65
Up and to St. James’s, where we attended the Duke as usual. This morning I was much surprized and troubled with a letter from Mrs. Bland, that she is left behind, and much trouble it cost me this day to find out some way to carry her after the ships to Plymouth, but at last I hope I have done it. At noon to the ’Change to inquire what wages the Dutch give in their men-of-warr at this day, and I hear for certain they give but twelve guilders at most, which is not full 24s., a thing I wonder at. At home to dinner, and then in Sir J. Minnes’s coach, my wife and I with him, and also Mercer, abroad, he and I to White Hall, and he would have his coach to wait upon my wife on her visits, it being the first time my wife hath been out of doors (but the other day to bathe her) several weeks.
We to a Committee of the Council to discourse concerning pressing of men; but, Lord! how they meet; never sit down: one comes, now another goes, then comes another; one complaining that nothing is done, another swearing that he hath been there these two hours and nobody come. At last it come to this, my Lord Annesly, says he, “I think we must be forced to get the King to come to every committee; for I do not see that we do any thing at any time but when he is here.” And I believe he said the truth and very constant he is at the council table on council-days; which his predecessors, it seems, very rarely did; but thus I perceive the greatest affair in the world at this day is likely to be managed by us. But to hear how my Lord Barkeley and others of them do cry up the discipline of the late times here, and in the former Dutch warr is strange, wishing with all their hearts that the business of religion were not so severely carried on as to discourage the sober people to come among us, and wishing that the same law and severity were used against drunkennesse as there was then, saying that our evil living will call the hand of God upon us again. Thence to walk alone a good while in St. James’s Parke with Mr. Coventry, who I perceive is grown a little melancholy and displeased to see things go as they do so carelessly.
Thence I by coach to Ratcliffe highway, to the plate-maker’s, and he has begun my Lord Sandwich’s plate very neatly, and so back again. Coming back I met Colonell Atkins, who in other discourse did offer to give me a piece to receive of me 20 when he proves the late news of the Dutch, their drowning our men, at Guinny, and the truth is I find the generality of the world to fear that there is something of truth in it, and I do fear it too.
Thence back by coach to Sir Philip Warwicke’s; and there he did contract with me a kind of friendship and freedom of communication, wherein he assures me to make me understand the whole business of the Treasurer’s business of the Navy, that I shall know as well as Sir G. Carteret what money he hath; and will needs have me come to him sometimes, or he meet me, to discourse of things tending to the serving the King: and I am mighty proud and happy in becoming so known to such a man. And I hope shall pursue it.
Thence back home to the office a little tired and out of order, and then to supper and to bed.
28 Annotations
First Reading
Margaret • Link
"...it being the first time my wife hath been out of doors (but the other day to bathe her) several weeks"
Several weeks stuck in the house! But perhaps Sam isn't counting going to the local shops. I hope she's been out of the house more than he says, otherwise it begins to sound like living in Afghanistan.
A. De Araujo • Link
I gather Margaret has lived in Afghanistan.
CGS • Link
Women until they could wield a derringer on the most part walked ten paces behind the male and were dependent on male life support until the head of household kicked the ****** , then they had to depend on their own prowess for survival, Palmer was no dummy nor were many of the others that could exploit their assets.
Twas alway better to be old mans darling than a young mans slave.
Answer yes, Many areas of the world should tell the western female how they have progressed since the late 1800's with the help of Emmeline Pankhurst and her band of cohorts.
CGS • Link
The 2 bob piece was called a florin for many a year.
CGS • Link
Get the law straight , needed because all the opportunities for building thyself a new mansion.
House of Commons today
Prize Goods.
An ingrossed Bill, sent from the Lords, for Repealing of Part of an Act of Parliament, intituled, An Act directing the Prosecution of such as are accountable for Prize Goods, was read the First time.
Terry F • Link
"But to hear how my Lord Barkeley and others of them do cry up the discipline of the late times here, and in the former Dutch warr is strange, wishing with all their hearts that the business of religion were not so severely carried on as to discourage the sober people to come among us, and wishing that the same law and severity were used against drunkennesse as there was then, saying that our evil living will call the hand of God upon us again."
Alas, for the good old days, those sober Puritan days (*hic*!).....
Paul Chapin • Link
Col. Atkins says the intelligence about the Dutch atrocities is a slam dunk.
Paul Chapin • Link
"but, Lord! how they meet (etc., etc.)"
A description of high-level government meetings for the ages.
GrahamT • Link
"...did offer to give me a piece to receive of me 20 when he proves the late news of the Dutch..."
This sounds like a bet, but at very poor odds, i.e. "If I'm right Pepys, you give me 20 pieces, but if you're right I'll give you one piece." No wonder Pepys didn't take him up on it. If Atkins was so certain of his facts, the odds would have been the other way around.
Any other explanations?
Mary • Link
"get the King to come to every committee"
Charles the Merry Monarch was in fact fairly conscientious where government business was concerned. L&M note that in 1665 he regularly attended the thrice-weekly full Council meetings. He also attended meetings of the committee for foreign affairs with similar regularity.
dirk • Link
The Rev. Ralph Josselin's weather report today:
(from his diary)
"a great frost in the morning."
dirk • Link
"it being the first time my wife hath been out of doors (but the other day to bathe her) several weeks"
If you wanted to take a real bath, you had to go out, to one of the "Public Baths". This was centuries old custom throughout Europe. The Romans had been the first to introduce these facilities in Europe, but these "Thermae" disappeared in the Dark Ages after the collapse of the empire. There had been a revival in the 13th century, and all major cities in Europe now had their public bath houses - "hothouses" as they were sometimes called in England. A visit to the bath house often "sidetracked" - which is why public baths usually had a very poor reputation, and were seen by some as not very different from brothels.
As for Sam's quote above, I wonder where Elizabeth would have gone to take a bath. I can't find any information on public baths in London in Sam's time. I seem to remember that at some point (under Cromwell? or after Charles' restoration?) public baths had been banned. And I found this reference to a an attempt in 1662 to re-open them (thanks Vincent)
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
But what would the situation have been early 1665?
language hat • Link
A classic description of what meetings are like -- one of the blessings of being a freelance editor is that I never have to go to another one! (I used to bring printouts of Pushkin I could surreptitiously read as people droned on to no purpose...)
Incidentally, if anyone is wondering, Annesly is two syllables: ANZ-lee.
cgs • Link
Re: dunking a body in warm water: Was it a Publick Bathing house, set up like a publick Toilet house?
cgs • Link
Publick bathes or were they known as Turkish or Bagnio.
There were many places called Bagnio in London but due to the fact that Assignations were taking place, no one mention them in polite company or in "proper" writings..
the bagnio or turkish bath near Coney Street (1691),
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…
One of these was the Turkish bath known in London as a Bagnio. The first one was opened by Turkish Merchants in December 1679 in a court off Newgate Street ...
http://www.storyoflondon.com/modu…
Brian • Link
"it being the first time my wife hath been out of doors (but the other day to bathe her) several weeks."
On December 30 (after the Christmas festivities) Elizabeth had said she didn't want to go anywhere until Easter. Looks like she didn't quite make her resolution .
djc • Link
“…did offer to give me a piece to receive of me 20 when he proves the late news of the Dutch…”
he offers Pepys odds 20:1 that the rumours are true. eg he will give Pepys one piece now, to be returned twentyfold when proof arrives,
Robert Gertz • Link
Was nice of Sam to help poor Mrs. Bland out...
GrahamT • Link
DJC:
Atkins is offering Sam odds of 1:20, and himself 20:1. Sam can only win one piece, Atkins can win 20. We call that hedging your bets: If he's right he gets 20 pieces; if he's wrong he only loses one. That says to me he is trying to make Sam put his money where his mouth is.
Terry Foreman • Link
Undated letters ad rem Calendared in the Carte Collection
A List of Seamen for the Lord General, the Earl of Sandwich, Commander of the King's Majesties Fleet
Date: Undated [February] 1665
Shelfmark: MS. Carte 75, fol(s). 174-175
Document type: Original; certified by Thomas Wilde
-------------------------
Note (by Sir George Lane) concerning a letter of the Mayor of Bristol, respecting levy of seamen, addressed to the Duke of Ormond, & by him sent to the Council Board
Date: [February] 1665
Shelfmark: MS. Carte 145, fol(s). 110
http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/s…
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"Was nice of Sam to help poor Mrs. Bland out..."
She went by one of the ships of the Levant Company now bound for Smyrna -- Capt. Hill's Hannibal: Pepys to Coventry, 2 March, Shorthand Letters, p. 31.... She gave Hill a piece of plate for his trouble and 40s. to distribute among his men. Her profuse and strangely spelt letters of thanks to Pepys (17, 21 March) are in Rawl. (Per L&M footnote)
Terry Foreman • Link
"what wages the Dutch give in their men-of-warr at this day, and I hear for certain they give but twelve guilders at most, which is not full 24s., a thing I wonder at."
Cf. CSPD 1664-5, p. 249. This was the rate for ordinary seamen. In January it had been raised from 11 guilders.: The Newes, 19 January, p. 54. In the English navy the rates were 19s. a month for ordinary seamen. and 24s. for able seamen: Cat., i. 140. But in April the Dutch again in creased thei rates: CSPVen 1664-6, p. 112. (L&M note)
Terry Foreman • Link
"very constant he is at the council table on council-days; which his predecessors, it seems, very rarely did"
Unlike James I and Charles I, Charles II attended full council meetings (held in 1665 three times a week) with fair regularity. The only committee he attended with equal frequency was that for foreign affairs -- ancestor of the modern cabinet: E.R. Turner, Privy Council, ii. 101-3, 384; ii. 40-3, 207-8. In a letter of May 1682 to Hewer, Pepys contrasted the 'order, gravity and unanimity' of debate in the Scottish Privy Council (two meetings of which he had attended in Edinburgh) with the oroceedings of its English counterpart: Letters, pp. 139-40. (L&M note)
Terry Foreman • Link
"to hear how my Lord Barkeley and others of them do cry up the discipline of the late times here, and in the former Dutch warr is strange"
Particularly since Berkeley had been in exile with the royalist court during that period. (L&M note)
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... saying that our evil living will call the hand of God upon us again."
So even rich, educated sinners worried about 1666 being next year ... and no one has forgotten that pesky comet. Many blamed Charles II and his Court's riotous living for the triple whammy about to hit England.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... Sir Philip Warwick’s; and there he did contract with me a kind of friendship and freedom of communication, wherein he assures me to make me understand the whole business of the Treasurer’s business of the Navy, that I shall know as well as Sir G. Carteret what money he hath; and will needs have me come to him sometimes, or he meet me, to discourse of things tending to the serving the King: and I am mighty proud and happy in becoming so known to such a man. And I hope shall pursue it."
Seems the Povy disaster has alerted Warwick to Carteret's predicament, and Pepys wisely agrees to step up. Some people are doing their best to mind the store.
San Diego Sarah • Link
I wonder if Mrs. Bland's ship, The Hannibal, is one of the Levant ships approved to sail with a Navy escort ... remember the to-do over this https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
"... when we can neither spare them ships to go, nor men nor King's ships to convoy them ..." The Levant Company's negotiations with the King for a convoy are summarized in HMC, finch, p.363.
Apparently an escort of six ships was granted in early February. -- Latham and Matthews Vol.VI.1665 and London: G.Bell and Sons Ltd. May 1974.
Gerald Berg • Link
20 to 1 or if you choose to make the bet in punishment: two ears versus one tongue.