Monday 24 April 1665

Up and with Creed in Sir W. Batten’s coach to White Hall. Sir W. Batten and I to the Duke of Albemarle, where very busy. Then I to Creed’s chamber, where I received with much ado my two orders about receiving Povy’s monies and answering his credits, and it is strange how he will preserve his constant humour of delaying all business that comes before him.

Thence he and I to London to my office, and back again to my Lady Sandwich’s to dinner, where my wife by agreement.

After dinner alone, my Lady told me, with the prettiest kind of doubtfullnesse, whether it would be fit for her with respect to Creed to do it, that is, in the world, that Creed had broke his desire to her of being a servant to Mrs. Betty Pickering, and placed it upon encouragement which he had from some discourse of her ladyship, commending of her virtues to him, which, poor lady, she meant most innocently. She did give him a cold answer, but not so severe as it ought to have been; and, it seems, as the lady since to my Lady confesses, he had wrote a letter to her, which she answered slightly, and was resolved to contemn any motion of his therein. My Lady takes the thing very ill, as it is fit she should; but I advise her to stop all future occasions of the world’s taking notice of his coming thither so often as of late he hath done. But to think that he should have this devilish presumption to aime at a lady so near to my Lord is strange, both for his modesty and discretion.

Thence to the Cockepitt, and there walked an houre with my Lord Duke of Albemarle alone in his garden, where he expressed in great words his opinion of me; that I was the right hand of the Navy here, nobody but I taking any care of any thing therein; so that he should not know what could be done without me. At which I was (from him) not a little proud. Thence to a Committee of Tangier, where because not a quorum little was done, and so away to my wife (Creed with me) at Mrs. Pierce’s, who continues very pretty and is now great with child. I had not seen her a great while. Thence by coach to my Lord Treasurer’s, but could not speak with Sir Ph. Warwicke. So by coach with my wife and Mercer to the Parke; but the King being there, and I now-a-days being doubtfull of being seen in any pleasure, did part from the tour, and away out of the Parke to Knightsbridge, and there eat and drank in the coach, and so home, and after a while at my office, home to supper and to bed, having got a great cold I think by my pulling off my periwigg so often.

38 Annotations

First Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

So, cutting through many extra personal pronouns, John Creed is hot for Sandwich's niece.

jeannine  •  Link

"So, cutting through many extra personal pronouns, John Creed is hot for Sandwich’s niece....."
and Lady S. isn't too hot for John Creed.....

Between Povy's interaction with Mercer the other day and Creed's hots for Betty, it's clear that 'spring is in the air'!

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"...but the King being there, and I now-a-days being doubtfull of being seen in any pleasure..."

The 'right hand of the Navy' must be above such petty things.

jeannine  •  Link

“…but the King being there, and I now-a-days being doubtfull of being seen in any pleasure…

The ‘right hand of the Navy’ must be above such petty things"......even if the King obviously isn't!

cape henry  •  Link

"...After dinner alone, my Lady told me, with the prettiest kind of doubtfullnesse." This passage has such a terrific soap opera quality. One can visualize the scene in which Pepys is able to repeatedly stab Creed in the back using the guise of friendly concern. Wonderful stuff.

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

"and it is strange how he will preserve his constant humour of delaying all business that comes before him"

Who? Creed or Povy? I got lost here...

Sam has a right to be more than "a little proud" ... he's definitely Getting Noticed by Those Who Matter.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

...And yet for all this the Betty Pickering annotation does not lie. John Creed, ladies and gentlemen...A man who knows what he wants and will have it.

Apparently whatever she says to Lady Jem, Betty doesn't find John totally unacceptable. The Devil hath charm to assume a pleasing shape...
***

"Who wants to marry my niece?!!!"

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"...there walked an houre with my Lord Duke of Albemarle alone in his garden, where he expressed in great words his opinion of me; that I was the right hand of the Navy here, nobody but I taking any care of any thing therein; so that he should not know what could be done without me. At which I was (from him) not a little proud..."

Has Monck ever spent an hour on the sea? Besides,

Tomorrow morning...

"Batten, I must tell you that you, Sir William, are the right hand of the navy, sir. And I should not know what could be done without you."

Tomorrow, midday...

"Minnes, I must tell you that you, Sir John, are the right hand of the navy, sir. And I should not know what could be done without you."

Tomorrow afternoon...

"Cooper, I must tell you that you, venerable old one-eyed salt, are the right hand of the navy, sir. And I should not know what could be done without you."

Ayre...Cooper, dutiful nod.

Tomorrow night...

"Dear Bess, I must tell you that you, dearest, are in truth the right hand of the navy, my love. And given that motley crew in the office, I should not know what could be done without your unseen guidance."

Got that right, Bess thinks.

Paul Chapin  •  Link

“and it is strange how he will preserve his constant humour of delaying all business that comes before him"

Todd, I took the reference to be to Povy, mostly because Sam complains constantly about Povy's business acumen, while his complaints about Creed relate to other matters entirely.

Paul Chapin  •  Link

"Creed had broke his desire to her ..."
Cf. OED definition 22a for 'break':
22. a. [...] to break news, a matter, a secret: to make it known, disclose, divulge it; now implying caution and delicacy.
c1450 Lonelich Grail xxxvi. 274 Al Šowre herte thanne to me breke. 1474 Sir J. Paston Lett. 747 III. 118 To whom she brake hyr harte and tolde hyr yt she sholde have hadde Mastr Paston. 1525 Ld. Berners Froiss. II. lxii. [lxv.] 212 A squyer of Bretayne, to whome he had broken his mynde. 1528 Gardiner in Pocock Rec. Ref. I. 101 His holiness demanded whether the king's highness had at any time broken this matter to the queen. 1683 Penn. Archives I. 83, I broke ye bussiness to Pr. Aldrix. 1712 Steele Spect. No. 455 33 She began to break her Mind very freely+to me. 1712 Arbuthnot John Bull 102 With a design to break the matter gently to his partners. 1759 Dilworth Pope 64 After a short acquaintance+he broke his mind to him upon that subject. a1779 G. Colman in G. Colman (Jun.) Posth. Lett. (1820) 339 Here it may be resolved+that she shall break the secret of their marriage to the old Earl. 1840 Hood Up Rhine 1 Now, however, I have some news to break.

Jesse  •  Link

"doubtfull of being seen in any pleasure"

During the business day? I know, I know there were no formal hours and yet being seen in (respectable) pleasure after supper couldn't have done any harm - could it?

Michael Robinson  •  Link

Has Monck ever spent an hour on the sea?

Rodger considers Monck the principal thinker in the the development of the Naval tactics behind the famous 'Fighting Instructions' of March 1653, "the first clear evidence of the line of battle, the classic fighting formation of sailing warships arranged in a single straight line, the better to deploy their gunfire."

N.A. M. Rodger, 'Command Of the Ocean,' 2004/05, pp 16, 17.

"In December 1652, Monck joined Blake and Deane as a General-at-Sea in the First Anglo-Dutch War. Although he had no previous naval experience, Monck's powers of leadership and his expertise as an artillery officer qualified him for command at sea. Relying upon the seamanship of his officers, Monck played a decisive role in the battle of Portland in February 1653. After Deane was killed at the battle of North Foreland and Blake was forced to return to England to recover from his wounds, Monck took command of the English fleet, imposing a total blockade on Dutch ports and bringing Dutch commerce to a standstill. When the Dutch attempted to break the blockade in July 1653, Monck was victorious at the battle of Scheveningen, the deciding battle of the war, during which the Dutch admiral Maarten Tromp was killed."
http://www.british-civil-wars.co.…

Terry Foreman  •  Link

doubtful

L&M, in the Companion's Larger Glossary say this can mean "fearful" or "careful."

So "my Lady told me, with the prettiest kind of doubtfullnesse" = caution?

"I now-a-days being doubtfull of being seen in any pleasure" = fearful?

Mary  •  Link

(respectable) pleasure after supper.

But this wasn't after supper, it was in the afternoon during hours of daylight that (HM might have thought) could have been more profitably used at a Navy Office desk.

Pepys has had dinner (lunch) with Lady M., a brief turn in the park, a snack in the coach at Knighstbridge and has put in some work back at the office before he gets his supper and goes to bed.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"...it was in the afternoon during hours of daylight that (HM might have thought) could have been more profitably used at a Navy Office desk." Particularly during wartime, and especially with the Duke himself off to sea.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

Parliamentary Investigating Committee on the Conduct of the War, 1666...

"Fellow Members, while our brave men, led by the gracious Duke himself, faced death on the high seas...One man, charged with grave responsibility, neglected his duty, spending his days not in his place of office but in riotous license such as to richly earn him his nickname of "Playhouse Pepys". So sordid in his vicious self-indulgence as to feel no shame in being seen taking his lewd pleasures even by His Majesty. This wretched man, extorting bribes and..."

Damn it, does it have to be Penn?...Sam sighs from his seat.

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"doubtfull of being seen in any pleasure"
Like most civil servants Sam wants to be seen busy by the Boss; working hard; I know!

Phil  •  Link

"But to think that he should have this devilish presumption to aime at a lady so near to my Lord is strange, both for his modesty and discretion."

Working so closely with Creed, you would of thought Pepys would know Creed's ambitious ways. Marrying the boss's niece would imply job security. So, from Pepys comments here, I gather Pepys slotted Creed in a class below Betty Pickering, or Pepys did not expect Creed to chase a married woman. (Do we know if Betty Pickering is a widow at this point in time?)

When Pepys wrote this comment, I wonder if he felt Creed was trying to improve his station in life or if Pepys felt Creed was truly in love with Betty Pickering. Love can make us immodest and indiscreet.

Jesse  •  Link

“doubtfull of being seen in any pleasure” - because it was during the business day?

Is what my earlier post was to have meant and had Pepys been "seen" after hours would it have been as big a deal?

Pedro  •  Link

On this day a letter from James Ley.

James Ley (3rd Earl of Marlborough) had been sent to take the handover of Bombay as part of the Queen’s Dowry in 1662. The Portuguese Viceroy refused to believe that Bombay was to be given up, and cast doubts upon the papers presented by the Earl. Then after a lot of useless palaver the Admiral left Sir Abraham Shipman and the troops on the small island of Angediva, near Goa, and sailed home for fresh orders. Over a year passed before the fresh orders came, and when they came Sir Abraham Shipman and most of his troops were dead.

The letter from Ley is to Sir Hugh Pollard 6 weeks before his death in the Old James and can be seen from Memorials to Sir William Penn by his grandson Granville Penn…

P 340…“There is another letter, which I place high…

http://books.google.com/books?id=…


Terry Foreman  •  Link

John Evelyn's Diary [for Dirk]

24 I presented Young Cap: Ever[t]se[n], eldest sonn of Cornelius, Vice-Admirall of Zealand, & Nephew of John now Admiral, a most valiant person, to his Majestie, being in his bed-chamber: the K. gave his hand to kisse, gave him his liberty, asked many quest: concerning the fight (it being the first bloud drawne) his Majestie remembring the many civilities he had formerly received from his relations abroad, and had now so much Interest in that Considerable Province: Then I was commanded to go with him to the Holl[and]: Ambassador, where he was to stay for his pass-port, & ordered me to give him 50 pieces in broad gold: Next day I had the Ambassadors Parole for the other Cap: taken in Cap: Allens fight [before] Cales &c:
***

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"Lady S. isn’t too hot for John Creed….."

Creed still has a Puritan taint, and Sandwich is, at the moment, in good favor for his skills (the superior Dutch way of dealing), but hardly a court favorite.

Pedro  •  Link

Allin on this day…

Little rain in the morning, the wind SSW, handsome weather of wind. We rode still. Some scouts standing in about 10 o’clock that brought in 4 flyboats, 3 Hamburgers, some bound for Lisbon, one Dane. Captain Lambert took a small privateer of Flushing with 21 men, 3 very small guns and good small arms. He had been out 3 weeks and had got nothing. A ketch from Colchester brought us 19 soldiers…They had victuals that day, although came late. Another ketch came with them took another steigerschuit with fish. The Eagle came in and one merchant man-of-war with him.

(The Journals of Allin edited by Anderson)

tld  •  Link

“But to think that he should have this devilish presumption to aime at a lady so near to my Lord is strange, both for his modesty and discretion.”

I read this a slightly different way than Phil. Perhaps the class level issue wasn't the prime driver but more that Sam was was amazed that Creed would target someone so close to Lord Sandwich in relationship. Lord Sandwich would surely know Creeds true character (and class). It's clear Lady Sandwich shares Sam's view of Creed's character.

Michael Robinson  •  Link

"But to think that he should have this devilish presumption to aime at a lady so near to my Lord is strange, both for his modesty and discretion."

But last summer Creed crashed SP's bucolic afternoon and evening party with the two Montague daughters and Elizabeth Pickering:

"And anon at noon comes Mr. Creed by chance, and by and by the three young ladies: and very merry we were with our pasty,...We came safe, however, to their house, where all were abed; we knocked them up, my Lady and all the family being in bed. So put them into doors; and leaving them with the mayds, bade them good night, and then into the towne, Creed and I, ..."
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"But to think that he should have this devilish presumption to aime at a lady so near to my Lord is strange, both for his modesty and discretion."

Nevertheless Creed married her in October 1668. ((L&M note)

Timo  •  Link

Petty Bickering?

Sasha Clarkson  •  Link

Of course, Sam is already one-up on Creed, in that he is a blood relation of Sandwich, whose mother was a Pepys (Sister to old Talbot of Impington, Roger & Dr John's dad)).

By marrying Betty, Creed would become an "in-law" of both the Pepys and Montagu families, something that Sam can't be keen on.

On the other hand, as the daughter of a Regicide, albeit forgiven, Betty's marriage prospects might be more limited than her social position might otherwise enable.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Betty Pickering was born in 1644, so she is 21. Lady Sandwich is preoccupied with marrying off her own daughter, Jemima, who was born in 1646 -- therefore, aged 19. Perhaps the Montagus are guardians to Betty, and therefore it's up to Sir Gilbert and Lady Susannah Dryden Pickering to negotiate her marital future, and this infraction means the Montagus have not done a good job guarding her? Or perhaps Betty is earning her keep as a companion? Either way, Creed is out-of-line approaching Betty personally, and puts the Montagus' care in a bad light.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

The Cockpit at Whitehall was the residence of Gen. George Monck, Duke of Albermarle. -- Wheatley, 1899.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"... having got a great cold I think by my pulling off my periwigg so often."

Why did he pull it off a lot today? ... maybe he did that so Charles II wouldn't recognize him? -- but that would only take a few minutes. He did spend quite a lot of time outside today, so maybe it was windy. I wonder how they anchored their wigs on their heads. In the annotations it says: “Men had to learn ‘wig behaviour’ — you tossed the wig aside when bowing, or it all fell over your face.” -- From Ann Pasternak Slater's review in the 29 April 2006 "Guardian Review". So apparently it just slipped around up there. Or he did more than the usual amount of bowing today?

Sasha Clarkson  •  Link

I don't think the Montagus are Betty's guardians Sarah; Sir Gilbert may have retired to private life, but he's still in possession and control of his estates. etc.

However, Sandwich is Creed's patron, and Betty is Sandwich's niece, so Creed should have got Sandwich's blessing before approaching Betty, so that Sandwich could have discussed it with his sister and brother-in-law. To be fair to Creed, it seems that he may have misunderstood Lady S's casual conversation as encouragement, and then jumped the gun assuming that his suit would be welcomed. In this case, fortune, eventually, favoured the bold.

It's a pity that we know little of Creed apart from the accounts in Sam's diary. But that, in itself, tells us much of what we kneed to know.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

We will shortly find out why Pepys has been leaving his periwigg off. All my guesses were wrong.

&&&

"A ketch from Colchester brought us 19 soldiers…They had victuals that day, although came late. Another ketch came with them took another steigerschuit with fish."

What is a steigerschuit you may ask (as I did).

Steigerschuit is a modern postal area located in Breskens, within the municipality of Sluis, in the province of Zeeland. If this is the correct interpretation, then this note may mean that another ketch from Colchester had captured another boat from Steigerschuit which was full of fish.

Log in to post an annotation.

If you don't have an account, then register here.