Friday 8 December 1665

Up, well pleased in my mind about my Lord Sandwich, about whom I shall know more anon from Sir G. Carteret, who will be in towne, and also that the Hambrough [ships] after all difficulties are got out. God send them good speed! So, after being trimmed, I by water to London, to the Navy office, there to give order to my mayde to buy things to send down to Greenwich for supper to-night; and I also to buy other things, as oysters, and lemons, 6d. per piece, and oranges, 3d. That done I to the ’Change, and among many other things, especially for getting of my Tangier money, I by appointment met Mr. Gawden, and he and I to the Pope’s Head Taverne, and there he did give me alone a very pretty dinner. Our business to talk of his matters and his supply of money, which was necessary for us to talk on before the Duke of Albemarle this afternoon and Sir G. Carteret. After that I offered now to pay him the 4000l. remaining of his 8000l. for Tangier, which he took with great kindnesse, and prayed me most frankly to give him a note for 3500l. and accept the other 500l. for myself, which in good earnest was against my judgement to do, for [I] expected about 100l. and no more, but however he would have me do it, and ownes very great obligations to me, and the man indeed I love, and he deserves it. This put me into great joy, though with a little stay to it till we have time to settle it, for for so great a sum I was fearfull any accident might by death or otherwise defeate me, having not now time to change papers. So we rose, and by water to White Hall, where we found Sir G. Carteret with the Duke, and also Sir G. Downing, whom I had not seen in many years before. He greeted me very kindly, and I him; though methinks I am touched, that it should be said that he was my master heretofore, as doubtless he will. So to talk of our Navy business, and particularly money business, of which there is little hopes of any present supply upon this new Act, the goldsmiths being here (and Alderman Backewell newly come from Flanders), and none offering any. So we rose without doing more than my stating the case of the Victualler, that whereas there is due to him on the last year’s declaration 80,000l., and the charge of this year’s amounts to 420,000l. and odd, he must be supplied between this and the end of January with 150,000l., and the remainder in 40 weeks by weekly payments, or else he cannot go through his business.

Thence after some discourse with Sir G. Carteret, who, though he tells me that he is glad of my Lord’s being made Embassador, and that it is the greatest courtesy his enemies could do him; yet I find he is not heartily merry upon it, and that it was no design of my Lord’s friends, but the prevalence of his enemies, and that the Duke of Albemarle and Prince Rupert are like to go to sea together the next year. I pray God, when my Lord is gone, they do not fall hard upon the Vice-Chamberlain, being alone, and in so envious a place, though by this late Act and the instructions now a brewing for our office as to method of payments will destroy the profit of his place of itself without more trouble.

Thence by water down to Greenwich, and there found all my company come; that is, Mrs. Knipp, and an ill, melancholy, jealous-looking fellow, her husband, that spoke not a word to us all the night, Pierce and his wife, and Rolt, Mrs. Worshipp and her daughter, Coleman and his wife, and Laneare, and, to make us perfectly happy, there comes by chance to towne Mr. Hill to see us. Most excellent musique we had in abundance, and a good supper, dancing, and a pleasant scene of Mrs. Knipp’s rising sicke from table, but whispered me it was for some hard word or other her husband gave her just now when she laughed and was more merry than ordinary. But we got her in humour again, and mighty merry; spending the night, till two in the morning, with most complete content as ever in my life, it being increased by my day’s work with Gawden. Then broke up, and we to bed, Mr. Hill and I, whom I love more and more, and he us.

23 Annotations

First Reading

cape henry  •  Link

"...and the man indeed I love, and he deserves it." Yea, verily for no man hath Pepys greater love than he who droppeth an extra L400 upon him. (That's about L50,000 today.) Not a bad tip, gang.

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

"though methinks I am touched, that it should be said that he was my master heretofore, as doubtless he will"

What does "touched" mean in this context? Is Sam peeved?

"that it is the greatest courtesy his enemies could do him"

Sam has said this several times now -- is this a plum assignment for Sandwich? Or is Sam saying this is the best he could expect given a bad situation?

Paul Chapin  •  Link

touched

OED has a plethora of definitions for "touch". The one that seems to fit Sam's sense best in this context is

25. a. To grieve, vex; to injure, harm: esp. in a slight degree. ? Obs.

1535 Stewart Cron. Scot. (Rolls) II. 262 As ressone wald, it tuechit him full soir. 1581 Reg. Privy Council Scot. III. 401 Be the violatioun and brek of the same his Hienes is sumquhat twitchit and offendit unto. 1608 Yorks. Trag. i. ii, Shall I stand idle And see my reputation touch'd to death?

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Todd, methinks according to Sir G. Carteret the Embassador post is a life-saver, for his enemies -- who were circulating false rumors that Sandwich had failed to secure ships in battle, could have come down on him much harder in the prize goods case. The post in Spain "was no design of my Lord’s friends, but the prevalence of his enemies."

Now Pepys is concerned that "when my Lord is gone, they [his enemies] do not fall hard upon the Vice-Chamberlain [i.e., Carteret], being alone, and in so envious a place, though by this late Act and the instructions now a brewing for our office as to method of payments will destroy the profit of his place of itself without more trouble."

Very poignant moment.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"...for for so great a sum I was fearfull any accident might by death or otherwise defeate me..."

Dennis is so lucky to have such a good friend praying for his health and safety...Until he can deliver the cash.

***

Poor, poor Mrs. Knipp...What a life. And the only comfort the occasional grope from an admiring clod like Sam. Lucky if our boy doesn't run afoul of Chris.

Mary  •  Link

Poor Mrs. Knipp.

Either Mr. Knipp has a tin ear, or he just can't stand his wife attracting so much attention.

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

Mary, I think it's the latter, given Sam's assessment of him as an "ill, melancholy, jealous-looking fellow." Sounds like a nice dinner-party guest, eh?

Thanks, Paul and Terry.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

I think the interesting thing about the Knipps is their rather modern situation-Mrs. K has a job, a rather glamorous one, meeting important people like, Heaven help us, our Sam, and is very likely the principle breadwinner. Chris is to his credit not a Bagwell, but doesn't seem to relish his wife getting such attentions from her fine friends, perhaps given the times...And what we know of our boy's escapades, justly. Unlike Betty Martin nee Lane, a sharp businesswoman who seems in firm control...To the point of anxiously looking after her not-too-capable (at least by Sam's account) husband's interests...Mrs. Knipp seems more caught between dutiful wife and independent career woman.

Spoiler...

Perhaps it's unfair to the Knipps as a couple...After all we have no way to know for sure if Chris' morose behavior stems from cause or no...Nor do we know that Mrs. Knipp for all her apparent unhappiness is not deeply in love with her mister (the jealous husband bit certainly like Betty Pierce's constant state of pregnancy works to keep the boys at a little distance)...But I've always gotten the impression Mrs. Knipp though pretty...And enough to interest Sam...was not quite "mistress" level attractive.

Here we have the husbands...Montagu, affectionate within limits, never home, always running about his prominent career which now has taken a sharp downturn with his exile to Spain, leaving poor Lady Jem much at sea; Bagwell, the apparently scheming (one can't believe he knows nothing by now) and ambitious young fellow willing to pimp his wife to get ahead; Uncle Wight who is almost comic in his sad Lothario role and no doubt leads and imposes a miserable life with Aunt Wight; Chris Knipp who seems to need his wife's income and to morosely enjoy punishing her for it; John Pepys, who can't quite control Meg but does his damnest...And from whom Sam may possibly have learned a few things about the treatment of servant girls;James Pierce, who seems the best of the lot, apparently not begrudging his wife her fun so long as she remains obviously in his camp, though one wonders at the risk he puts her in. And of course our Sam, who amazingly comes off rather well among 17th century husbands...Genuinely affectionate and caring, often considerate, even indulgent at times, allowing a surprising degree of independence to his Bess, though as often, indifferent, self-centered, and grossly selfish to the point of what we would call abuse, of children at that. Interesting crew...And yet, they're loved...Probably to the point, some of them, that would startle us (and does, in poor Mrs. Bagwell).

Res Ipsa  •  Link

"Up, well pleased in my mind about my Lord Sandwich, about whom I shall know more anon from Sir G. Carteret, who will be in towne"

and later,

"Thence after some discourse with Sir G. Carteret, who, though he tells me that he is glad of my Lord’s being made Embassador, and that it is the greatest courtesy his enemies could do him; yet I find he is not heartily merry upon it, and that it was no design of my Lord’s friends, but the prevalence of his enemies"

This is a great example of Sam's literary "style" where he writes the events of the day as they unfold, as a narrative. When he wakes up, he's satisfied Sandwich is going to be OK, and looks forward to that reassurance from Sir C. Its only later in the narrative that we learn, at the same time Sam learns, that maybe this isn't such a great career opportunity for Sandwich.

Pedro  •  Link

“that it is the greatest courtesy his enemies could do him”

I think that Charles believes that the best policy at the moment is move Sandwich out of the firing line as he could well be very useful some time in the future.

A few thoughts from Ollard in his biography of Sandich…

Coventry unmasked his guns by moving in the Commons that the breaking of bulk aboard a prize should be made a felony. Soon there was talk of impeachment. Sandwich was roused to anger, even to an uncharacteristic bitterness. He considered the Duke ungrateful for the loyalty and service rendered: he was understandably furious with Coventry not only for the overt malice of his present activities but for his past misrepresentation of the great part Sandwich had played in the victory at Lowestoft. He even thought that Clarendon had not done him justice in his speech at the opening of Parliament in which, naturally, he had defended the Government’s record in the conduct of the war which was certain to be attacked…

…Clarendon’s autobiography enlarges with convincing circumstantiality on the passionate resentment felt by the Duke at Sandwich having presumed to usurp his own privileges as Lord High Admiral and having compounded the offence by applying through Cartaret to the King, and not to him, for pardon…

Sandwich hauled down his flag on the 21st of November. He had already made up his mind, in consultation with Pepys, not to solicit further appointment in sea service…

With France about to come into the war on the side of the Dutch it was imperative to effect a rapprochement with Spain…Philip IV had died leaving a gravely handicapped infant and a empty-headed widow as Regent. The possibilities of mischief were increased by the too evident inadequacy of our ambassador Fanshawe. His recall had already been decided on before this latest turn of events. Whoever relieved him must combine high standing, a thorough knowledge of military and naval realities and, preferably, a sympathetic understanding of the policy that underlay the acquisition of, and investment in, Tangier…in Sandwich all these qualities were united, together with a well-informed interest in overseas trade and economic affairs in generally...prolonged service abroad would both spike the guns of those wanted to pillory him over the Prize Goods and postpone indefinitely the threatened parliamentary inquiry in to the conduct of the war at sea which could hardly take place without him


Terry Foreman  •  Link

John Evelyn's Diary (Dirk's not having posted it)

8 To my L: of Albemarles (now return’d from Oxon) who was also now declared Generall at Sea, to the no small mortification, of that Excellent Person, the Earle of Sandwich: Whom the Duke of Albemarle, not onely suspected faulty about the prizes, but lesse Valiant: himself imagining how easie a thing it were to confound the Hollander, as well now, as when heretofore he fought against them, upon a more disloyal Interest:
***

Australian Susan  •  Link

Thanks for this, Terry - good to have Evelyn's take on the situation.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Henry Oldenburg to Spinoza

Letter XVI. (XXXIII.)

"But I pass on to politics. Everyone here is talking of a report that the Jews, after remaining scattered for more than two thousand years, are about to return to their country. Few here believe is, but many desire it. Please tell your friend what you hear and think on the matter. For my part, unless the news is confirmed from trustworthy sources at Constantinople, which is the place chiefly concerned, I shall not believe it...." Complete Works
By Benedictus de Spinoza, Samuel Shirley, Michael L.. p. 853. http://snipurl.com/c92l2

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

It may be relevant and helpful to know that the taciturn Christopher Knepp was by trade a horse-dealer. (L&M) He had an income, but....

Terry Foreman  •  Link

" Sir G. Downing, whom I had not seen in many years before. "

L&M: Pepys had been clerk to Downing in the Exchequer, c. 1656-60. He last reports having seen Downing 29 September 1620
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…

He reports the present conversation in greater detail in a letter to Coventry , 9 December: Further Corr., pp. 86-7. Downing (envoy-extraordinry to the United Provinces) had been in England since August: CSPDVen. 1664-6, p. 195. It was his initiative which had inspired the recent financial reforms: see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"I offered now to pay him the 4,000l. remaining of his 8,000l. for Tangier, which he took with great kindness, and prayed me most frankly to give him a note for 3,500l. and accept the other 500l. for myself, which in good earnest was against my judgement to do, for [I] expected about 100l. and no more, but however he would have me do it, and owns very great obligations to me, and the man indeed I love, and he deserves it.
"This put me into great joy, though with a little stay to it till we have time to settle it, for so great a sum I was fearful any accident might by death or otherwise defeat me, having not now time to change papers."

Once again Pepys' high finance logic leave me at a loss.

Pepys offered to repay the remaining 4,000l. from Gawden's 8,000l. Tangier loan/delivery. Gawden says to do the paperwork as paying him 3,500l., and Pepys can keep 500l. for himself.

Pepys insists on fast settlement because the numbers are so large, and he's worried he might died and be unable to change out correct paperwork if things go wrong.

This makes no sense to me.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Meanwhile, in the Middle East and throughout Europe, a millennium story was playing itself out (see Henry Oldenburg's letter above):

In 1665, Nathan of Gaza announced that the Messianic age would begin the following year with the conquest of the world without bloodshed. The Messiah would lead the Ten Lost Tribes back to the Holy Land, "riding on a lion with a seven-headed dragon in its jaws".

The self-proclaimed Messiah was Sabbatai Zevi ... see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…

It is truly an incredible story.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"With France about to come into the war on the side of the Dutch it was imperative to effect a rapprochement with Spain ..."

Why were the French about to do that?

The reluctant entry of France into the second Anglo-Dutch War on 16 January 1666, honored an obligation under the Franco-Dutch treaty of 1662, This made it unlikely that England would be able to defeat the Dutch decisively.

At the Restoration, Charles II's instincts were to exercise a serious role in European affairs, and his new government was sensitive to unflattering comparisons with the influence which the Commonwealth and Protectorate had wielded abroad and the Restoration regime was a fragile one. Charles' desire to cut a figure abroad had to be tempered by an appreciation of the costs of international power politics and the threat it could pose to internal security.

Both France and Spain solicited an English alliance.

The Franco-Spanish War was ended by the Treaty of the Pyrenees, but the politics of western Europe was still bound up with their continuing rivalry.

Plus the Spanish expected some dividends from the support they had given the exiled monarchy in the late 1650s, and in July 1660 Charles II formally ended the war with Spain which had been carried on fitfully since Cromwell's death.

Although Spain had advocates at the English court, it lacked the closeness with Charles II that family ties gave him to France, plus it could not overcome Charles’ enthusiasm for French society and government.

Even so, France's 1654 treaty with Cromwell, and Cardinal Mazarin's disrespect of royalist interests, had chilled relations between the two courts, and not until the death of Mazarin in March 1661 could they officially recover. By then the Franco-Dutch Treaty was as good as signed.

Therefore, on 7-17 December 1665, Sir Richard Fanshawe, the English Ambassador at Madrid, signed a Treaty with the Spanish minister, but Charles II refused to ratify it, and Fanshawe was recalled. As you can see, the decision to recall him was made well before the Treaty was signed, but I suppose we can blame the mis-step on how long it took for ships to deliver letters.

Tonyel  •  Link

the taciturn Christopher Knepp was by trade a horse-dealer. Or, in modern terms, a second-hand car salesman.
"Dragged out on a cold night all the way to Greenwich, to meet some of her wealthy friends who might be in the market for a horse or two - and all they did was sing - until two in the flaming morning - and then she accuses me of being bad company. Me! "

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Anyone with ideas on why Pepys throws a party now?

How far they have come: Advent started on December 2, and is supposed to be a fast time so the Christmas to 12th Night blow-out is a treat. Evidently the distaste for tradition and religion has totally taken over this group. Plus they don't care about the starving homeless injured seamen lurking in the doorways, heaving bricks through windows.

It's not even a "thank you" for the people who have given him so much hospitality during the last few months.

Party on, Pepys. The money must be burning a hole in your pocket. If you've got it, flaunt it.

Bryan  •  Link

Anyone with ideas on why Pepys throws a party now?

SP had a great time at Mrs Pierce's on 6 December and he was returning the favour, perhaps hoping for more of the same: "Here the best company for musique I ever was in, in my life, and wish I could live and die in it, ... I spent the night in extasy almost; and, having invited them to my house a day or two hence, we broke up ..."
The Great Plague was abating and they were still alive, to say nothing of being young and successful. Reason enough for a bit of a knees-up (or two).

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