Tuesday 26 December 1665
Up, and to the office, where Sir J. Minnes and my Lord Bruncker and I met, to give our directions to the Commanders of all the ships in the river to bring in lists of their ships’ companies, with entries, discharges, &c., all the last voyage, where young Seymour, among 20 that stood bare, stood with his hat on, a proud, saucy young man. Thence with them to Mr. Cuttle’s, being invited, and dined nobly and neatly; with a very pretty house and a fine turret at top, with winding stairs and the finest prospect I know about all Greenwich, save the top of the hill, and yet in some respects better than that. Here I also saw some fine writing worke and flourishing of Mr. Hore, he one that I knew long ago, an acquaintance of Mr. Tomson’s at Westminster, that is this man’s clerk. It is the story of the several Archbishops of Canterbury, engrossed in vellum, to hang up in Canterbury Cathedrall in tables, in lieu of the old ones, which are almost worn out. Thence to the office a while, and so to Captain Cocke’s and there talked, and home to look over my papers, and so to bed.
15 Annotations
First Reading
Robert Gertz • Link
So about 21 ships' captains stood in the Greenwich office before Bruncker, Pepys, and Minnes, 20 with hats dutifully off before these three?
Now if I recall, Bruncker had no experience with naval affairs before he was put on the Board, Sam, despite his study of the Navy and its organization had never been other than a peacetime passenger, and Minnes, judging from Sam's accounts (which may be unfair), couldn't tell port from starboard.
Seems to me they're lucky to have only one openly insolent captain...
Paul Chapin • Link
"to hang up in Canterbury Cathedrall in tables"
This use of "table" was unfamiliar to me. OED explains:
2. a. A tablet bearing or intended for an inscription or device: as the stone tablets on which the ten commandments were inscribed, a memorial tablet fixed in a wall, a votive tablet, a notice-board, etc. [archaic]
c1050 Byrhtferth's Handboc in Anglia VIII. 327 Þæra ¼eara ¼etæl hæfð seo tabule þe we mearkian willað. c1175 Lamb. Hom. 11 Efter þan drihten him bi-tahte twa stanene tables breode on hwulche godalmihti heofde iwriten þa ten laŠe. c1250 Gen. & Ex. 3535 And gaf to tabeles of ston, And .x. bodeword writen ðor-on. a1300 Cursor M. 6541 Þe tables þat in hand he [Moses] bare To pees he þam brak right þar. c1400 Mandeville (1839) ii. 10 The table abouen his heued+on the whiche the tytle was writen, in Ebreu, Greu, and Latyn. 1543 N. Heath Injunctions in Frere Use of Sarum II. 236 Certain prayers+conteyned in Tabylles sett in the grammer scole. 1641 Evelyn Mem. 4 Oct., Divers votive tables and relics. 1720 Ozell Vertot's Rom. Rep. I. vi. 311 The last Laws of the Decemvirs engraved upon Tables of Brass. 1849 James Woodman viii, As stern as the statue of Moses breaking the tables.
Jesse • Link
"... directions to the Commanders of all the ships in the river to bring in lists of their ships’ companies, with entries, discharges, &c"
Many who've worked for the government or a large company have probably been through a similar experience. Today's program/project managers stand before the same administrative types as yesterday's "Commanders." Frustrated youth may still "stand with [their] hat on" but us old timers know it'll only get you nowhere fast.
Tony Eldridge • Link
"to hang up in Canterbury Cathedrall in tables, in lieu of the old ones, which are almost worn out."
"Tables" can also mean lists (eg "ten times' tables" at school in the old days) which I think is probably the meaning here.
Robin Peters • Link
"As stern as the statue of Moses breaking the tables". Thanks for spoiling my life long vision of Moses smashing the dining table.
No; I think the meaning of table in this diary entry is more likely a notice board.
A.Hamilton • Link
young Seymour
Was probably too young to remember the naval career of Sir John Mennes, and thought he was dealing with a bunch of lubbers. From Mennes' biography, as given by Pauline at the link,
"Comptroller of the Navy 1660-71. He entered the navy as a youth….During 1635-9 he was continuously at sea, attaining the rank of Vice-Admiral, and later (1642) Rear-Admiral."
JWB • Link
Seymour
If armed, today's protocol dictates that you go covered at all times.
Jesse • Link
"the story of the several Archbishops of Canterbury"
Found a scanned version here http://tinyurl.com/6sd548 . Halfway down the page: "The ' table ' for Wittlesey's tomb is still to be seen in the Cathedral library, written in 1665 by a man of the name of R. Hoare.'
Australian Susan • Link
Could Seymour be a Quaker?
JWB • Link
Seymour seems to have been York's protege & as such no quaker he.
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"... directions to the Commanders of all the ships in the river to bring in lists of their ships’ companies, with entries, discharges, &c"
L&M: Almost 60 captains (from Woolwich, Deptford and above Limehouse) were summoned to attend: a list of their names and those of their ships, with a few notes is in the National Archives (in Pepys's hand, dated this day).
Terry Foreman • Link
L&M transcribe "It is the stories of the several Archbishops of Canterbury, engrossed in vellum, to hang up in Canterbury Cathedrall in tables, in lieu of the old ones, which are almost worn out. "
They are not mentioned in the inventories (1662 and 1689) printed in J. Wickham Legg and W.H. St John Hope, Inventories of Canterbury. The cathedral was being extensively refurbished at this time: see C.E. Woodruff and W. Danks, Memorials of Canterbury, pp. 238-41.
James Morgan • Link
Unlike RG, I like the idea that the military commanders show respect for civilian authority and the power of the King.
Cazbot • Link
Re 'tables' - quote from Jesse's link, given earlier:
"...The custom of putting " tables " on tombs for the instruction of
strangers was an ancient one. There is an example of one
in the year 1406 at St. Augustine's tomb in his Abbey at
Canterbury, which gave offence to the Christ Church monks
by stating the priority of foundation of that Abbey.
The " table " for Wittlesey's tomb is still to be seen in the
Cathedral library, written in 1665 by a man of the name of
R. Hoare. Those of Bradwardin, Islip, and Arundell, done at
the same time, are also preserved. There remains one of an
earlier series, that of Islip, word for word the same as the later
one, but much more worn and in an earlier handwriting. The
matter in these " tables " is taken from Parker, and they are
written in Latin. These post-Reformation "tables" are evi-
dently those that Godwin and Somner allude to. ..."
San Diego Sarah • Link
I agree, James, and find it interesting the tradition/custom of showing respect to the King's representatives was not stronger in the 17th century. Mennes had the wartime sailing knowledge to earn their respect, and since Pepys and Brouncker were asking them to implement systems, not telling them how to sail their ships, it shouldn't have been a big deal.
Perhaps Capt. Huge Seymour kept his hat on as a sign of his disrespect for the members of the Navy Board personally, as they had failed to pay his sailors or provision the fleet during the recent fighting?