Sunday 17 February 1666/67
(Lord’s day). Up, and called at Michell’s, and took him and his wife and carried them to Westminster, I landing at White Hall, and having no pleasure in the way ‘con elle’; and so to the Duke’s, where we all met and had a hot encounter before the Duke of York about the business of our payments at the Ticket Office, where we urged that we had nothing to do to be troubled with the pay, having examined the tickets. Besides, we are neglected, having not money sent us in time, but to see the baseness of my brethren, not a man almost put in a word but Sir W. Coventry, though at the office like very devils in this point. But I did plainly declare that, without money, no fleete could be expected, and desired the Duke of York to take notice of it, and notice was taken of it, but I doubt will do no good. But I desire to remember it as a most prodigious thing that to this day my Lord Treasurer hath not consulted counsel, which Sir W. Coventry and I and others do think is necessary, about the late Poll act, enough to put the same into such order as that any body dare lend money upon it, though we have from this office under our hands related the necessity thereof to the Duke of York, nor is like to be determined in, for ought I see, a good while had not Sir W. Coventry plainly said that he did believe it would be a better work for the King than going to church this morning, to send for the Atturney Generall to meet at the Lord Treasurer’s this afternoon and to bring the thing to an issue, saying that himself, were he going to the Sacrament, would not think he should offend God to leave it and go to the ending this work, so much it is of moment to the King and Kingdom. Hereupon the Duke of York said he would presently speak to the King, and cause it to be done this afternoon. Having done here we broke up; having done nothing almost though for all this, and by and by I met Sir G. Carteret, and he is stark mad at what has passed this morning, and I believe is heartily vexed with me: I said little, but I am sure the King will suffer if some better care be not taken than he takes to look after this business of money. So parted, and I by water home and to dinner, W. Hewer with us, a good dinner and very merry, my wife and I, and after dinner to my chamber, to fit some things against the Council anon, and that being done away to White Hall by water, and thence to my Lord Chancellor’s, where I met with, and had much pretty discourse with, one of the Progers’s that knows me; and it was pretty to hear him tell me, of his own accord, as a matter of no shame, that in Spayne he had a pretty woman, his mistress, whom, when money grew scarce with him, he was forced to leave, and afterwards heard how she and her husband lived well, she being kept by an old fryer who used her as his whore; but this, says he, is better than as our ministers do, who have wives that lay up their estates, and do no good nor relieve any poor — no, not our greatest prelates, and I think he is in the right for my part. Staid till the Council was up, and attended the King and Duke of York round the Park, and was asked several questions by both; but I was in pain, lest they should ask me what I could not answer; as the Duke of York did the value of the hull of the St. Patrick lately lost, which I told him I could not presently answer; though I might have easily furnished myself to answer all those questions. They stood a good while to see the ganders and geese tread one another in the water, the goose being all the while kept for a great while: quite under water, which was new to me, but they did make mighty sport of it, saying (as the King did often) “Now you shall see a marriage, between this and that,” which did not please me. They gone, by coach to my Lord Treasurer’s, as the Duke of York told me, to settle the business of money for the navy, I walked into the Court to and again till night, and there met Colonell Reames, and he and I walked together a great while complaining of the ill-management of things, whereof he is as full as I am. We ran over many persons and things, and see nothing done like men like to do well while the King minds his pleasures so much. We did bemoan it that nobody would or had authority enough with the King to tell him how all things go to rack and will be lost. Then he and I parted, and I to Westminster to the Swan, and there staid till Michell and his wife come. Old Michell and his wife come to see me, and there we drank and laughed a little, and then the young ones and I took boat, it being fine moonshine. I did to my trouble see all the way that ‘elle’ did get as close ‘a su marido’ as ‘elle’ could, and turn her ‘mains’ away ‘quand je’ did endeavour to take one … [de los – L&M] so that I had no pleasure at all ‘con elle ce’ night. When we landed I did take occasion to send him back a the bateau while I did get a ‘baiser’ or two, and would have taken ‘la’ by ‘la’ hand, but ‘elle’ did turn away, and ‘quand’ I said shall I not ‘toucher’ to answered ‘ego’ no love touching, in a slight mood. I seemed not to take notice of it, but parted kindly; ‘su marido’ did alter with me almost a my case, and there we parted, and so I home troubled at this, but I think I shall make good use of it and mind my business more. At home, by appointment, comes Captain Cocke to me, to talk of State matters, and about the peace; who told me that the whole business is managed between Kevet, Burgomaster of Amsterdam, and my Lord Arlington, who hath, by the interest of his wife there, some interest. We have proposed the Hague, but know not yet whether the Dutch will like it; or; if they do, whether the French will. We think we shall have the help of the information of their affairs and state, and the helps of the Prince of Orange his faction; but above all, that De Witt, who hath all this while said he cannot get peace, his mouth will now be stopped, so that he will be forced to offer fit terms for fear of the people; and, lastly, if France or Spayne do not please us, we are in a way presently to clap up a peace with the Dutch, and secure them. But we are also in treaty with France, as he says: but it must be to the excluding our alliance with the King of Spayne or House of Austria; which we do not know presently what will be determined in. He tells me the Vice-Chamberlaine is so great with the King, that, let the Duke of York, and Sir W. Coventry, and this office, do or say what they will, while the King lives, Sir G. Carteret will do what he will; and advises me to be often with him, and eat and drink with him.; and tells me that he doubts he is jealous of me, and was mighty mad to-day at our discourse to him before the Duke of York. But I did give him my reasons that the office is concerned to declare that, without money, the King’s work cannot go on. From that discourse we ran to others, and among the others he assures me that Henry Bruncker is one of the shrewdest fellows for parts in England, and a dangerous man; that if ever the Parliament comes again Sir W. Coventry cannot stand, but in this I believe him not; that, while we want money so much in the Navy, the Officers of the Ordnance have at this day 300,000l. good in tallys, which they can command money upon, got by their over-estimating their charge in getting it reckoned as a fifth part of the expense of the Navy; that Harry Coventry, who is to go upon this treaty with Lord Hollis (who he confesses to be a very wise man) into Holland, is a mighty quick, ready man, but not so weighty as he should be, he knowing him so well in his drink as he do; that, unless the King do do something against my Lord Mordaunt and the Patent for the Canary Company, before the Parliament next meets, he do believe there will be a civil war before there will be any more money given, unless it may be at their perfect disposal; and that all things are now ordered to the provoking of the Parliament against they come next, and the spending the King’s money, so as to put him into a necessity of having it at the time it is prorogued for, or sooner. Having discoursed all this and much more, he away, and I to supper and to read my vows, and to bed. My mind troubled about Betty Michell, ‘pour sa carriage’ this night ‘envers moy’, but do hope it will put me upon doing my business. This evening, going to the Queen’s side to see the ladies, I did find the Queene, the Duchesse of York, and another or two, at cards, with the room full of great ladies and men; which I was amazed at to see on a Sunday, having not believed it; but, contrarily, flatly denied the same a little while since to my cozen Roger Pepys. I did this day, going by water, read the answer to “The Apology for Papists,” which did like me mightily, it being a thing as well writ as I think most things that ever I read in my life, and glad I am that I read it.
21 Annotations
First Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
“…. Old Michell and his wife came to see me, and there we drank and laughed a little; and then the young ones and I took boat, it being a fine moonshine. I did to my trouble see all the way that ella did get as close to su marido as ella could, and turn her manos away quando yo did endeavor to take one de los so that I had no pleasure at all con ella ce night. When we landed, I did take occasion to send him back a the bateau while I did get un baiser or two, and would have taken la by the hand; but ella did turn away, and quando I said “Shall I not tocar te” answered “Yo no love touching”, in a slight modo. I seemed not to take notice of it, but parted kindly et su marido did andar with me almost a mi casa, and there parted; and so home troubled at this; but I think I shall make good use of it and mind my business more. ….”
[later...]
“…. And I to supper and then to read my vows, and to bed my mind troubled about Betty Michell pour sa carriage this night envers moy, but do hope it will put me upon doing mi mismo some bonum. ….”
http://www.pepys.info/bits5.html
Bradford • Link
"saying (as the King did often) “Now you shall see a marriage, between this and that,” which did not please me."
Interesting to see just where Pepys draws the lines between the behavior of others and his own.
cape henry • Link
"...which I told him I could not presently answer; though I might have easily furnished myself to answer all those questions."A very puzzling bit.I assume it is similar to the behavior of everyone else in the presence of this king:the three options are tell the truth, lie, or say nothing - but do not trouble the king with reality.Pepys seems to have deliberately chosen the third.With the DoY present, does he not risk his reputation for knowledgeable candor?
cum salis grano • Link
While the Tars are getting obstreperous, there not be a farthing to feed the wee bairns, Samuel was looking for his [?just?] desserts.
Louise H • Link
Cape Henry, I took the passage you quote to be self-reproach for not being prepared to answer questions that he could and should have anticipated being asked. I believe he would have told the truth had he known the answers. I think he's kicking himself for risking his reputation for knowledgeableness, not his reputation for candor.
Robert Gertz • Link
"...heard how she and her husband lived well, she being kept by an old fryer who used her as his whore; but this, says he, is better than as our ministers do, who have wives that lay up their estates, and do no good nor relieve any poor — no, not our greatest prelates, and I think he is in the right for my part."
You're ahead of your time in your deep social concern, Sam. And what a brilliant way to get the stingier rich to provide care. I'm sure William Bagwell and his missus would agree. You know in 21st century (US) America we have a little problem with some of us not wanting to pay for health care for the un- and under- insured, perhaps the Pepys plan is the answer...That last little fringe benefit to sweeten the deal.
I can think of a number of American politicians of various political leanings who would agree.
Robert Gertz • Link
Well done, Betty. Samuel, one does note at least you didn't press or threaten her.
"My mind troubled about Betty Michell, ‘pour sa carriage’ this night ‘envers moy’, but do hope it will put me upon doing my business."
Sad to have to give up his fun little game? Or fearful of being denounced or perhaps punched in the face?
Apparently he doesn't believe he can worm his way around young Michell with a few bribes as with Bagwell.
cape henry • Link
Point well taken, LH. Thanks.
jeannine • Link
This evening, going to the Queen’s side to see the ladies, I did find the Queene, the Duchesse of York, and another or two, at cards, with the room full of great ladies and men; which I was amazed at to see on a Sunday,
Shame on the Queen and those ladies for their wild card playing ways!! Didn't they know that Sunday's were devoted to complaining about boring sermons, coveting other people's wives, committing adultery, picking up a little graft, etc. On Sundays it seems anything done in private is ok, but in public, horrors and shame on them all!
martinb • Link
Spot on, Jeannine. In fact, there are many parts of this entry which it is quite difficult for a member of the male sex to read without wanting to cover eyes with fingers. This includes the goose and gander scene in the park, which is nonetheless an unforgettable little sketch: thus did the king and co. exercise their, erm, rather limited sense of humour at the same time as their legs. Pathetic and funny at the same time. And we mustn't forget all those courtiers standing by, having to pretend that they found it all as entertaining as Charles did.
Bradford • Link
Indeed, Martin. Isn't it, for all of us, like overhearing a sick joke?---which for the very fact that it makes one say "Faugh!" you know you will never be able to forget?
Fern • Link
"I did find the Queene, the Duchesse of York, and another or two, at cards, ... which I was amazed at to see on a Sunday"
The Queen's ladies were no doubt gambling.
I believe there are deep religious reasons against cards and gambling (it's akin to guessing what God's plans are) which is why indulging in the practice on the holy day was a double no-no for right-minded people.
Sam sounds as though he's astounded at the audacity of the ladies' behaviour, rather than shocked or offended by it... and he knows something about audacity.
Australian Susan • Link
Gambling and the Church
Many Christians today will not buy raffle tickets (but make donations instead) because they consider even a raffle a form of gambling. And the Puritan tone of society was still strong in the 1660s. Our Sam went to the much more conservative of the 2 English Universities in the 1650s, but does seem to have shaken off a lot of the influences he would have experienced there.
Most water fowl (swans are an exception as they pair for life) mate in the way Charles found so amusing. It can get really out of hand if there are too many males. I remember seeing female ducks drowned on the Lake by large numbers of drakes all trying to have a go at once when I was an undergraduate at the University of York.
cum salis grano • Link
"...(swans are an exception as they pair for life)..."
but they do divorce too, as it was discovered recently.
[
http://www.neatorama.com/2010/01/…
]
Rules are never Absolute.
The Mating game has many upsetting rules.
'Twas found recently that Sparrows [Connecticut marsh] make sure that their offspring be from multiple fathers, all in the same nest.
It is a case of nurture vs nature, still a lot of knowledge to process yet.
Charles and our Hero are trying out differing schemes from the accepted rules of the hemisphere.
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"comes Captain Cocke to me, to talk of State matters, and about the peace; who told me that the whole business is managed between Kevet, Burgomaster of Amsterdam, and my Lord Arlington, who hath, by the interest of his wife there, some interest."
L&M: Both were representatives of the Orange interest, which was now reviving. Arlington's wife (Isabella van Beverweerd) was a member of the Orange familt. Johan Kievit, once Burgomaster of Rotterdam (not Amsterdam), had since 1666 been an exile in England: for his part in the negotiations, see Feiling, pp. 199+.
Terry Foreman • Link
"if France or Spayne do not please us, we are in a way presently to clap up a peace with the Dutch, and secure them. But we are also in treaty with France, as he says: but it must be to the excluding our alliance with the King of Spayne or House of Austria; which we do not know presently what will be determined in."
L&M: The government was divided between the Arlington group, which put a Dutch treaty first, and the Clarendon group, which staked everything on an understanding with France. Since everyone knew of Louis' preparations against the Spanish Netherlands, the choice between methods of peace-making was really a choice of side in the war which would follow. On 11 February Charles II agreed to St Albans' proposal for a peace on French terms, and assured Louis that Sandwich's negotiations in Madrid had only to do with commerce. See http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Terry Foreman • Link
"he assures me that Henry Bruncker is one of the shrewdest fellows for parts in England, and a dangerous man"
It's not only Captain Cocke: L&M note Evelyn (24 March 1688) regarded him as 'hard, covetous, vicious'; Henry Brouncker was almost universally disliked.
Terry Foreman • Link
"my Lord Treasurer hath not consulted counsel, which Sir W. Coventry and I and others do think is necessary, about the late Poll act, enough to put the same into such order as that any body dare lend money upon it, though we have from this office under our hands related the necessity thereof to the Duke of York"
L&M: For the poll act, see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… and https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
For Southampson's business, see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… and https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Terry Foreman • Link
" Harry Coventry, who is to go upon this treaty with Lord Hollis (who he confesses to be a very wise man) into Holland, is a mighty quick, ready man, but not so weighty as he should be, he knowing him so well in his drink as he do"
L&M: Cf. Burnet (i. 548): 'A man of wit and heat, of spirit and candour'. To Marvel (Last Instructions, i. 228) he was 'Hector Harry'.
Terry Foreman • Link
"I did find the Queene, the Duchesse of York, and another or two, at cards, with the room full of great ladies and men; which I was amazed at to see on a Sunday, having not believed it; but, contrarily, flatly denied the same a little while since to my cozen Roger Pepys?"
L&M: https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Besides, we are neglected, having not money sent us in time, but to see the baseness of my brethren, not a man almost put in a word but Sir W. Coventry, though at the office like very devils in this point."
Pepys must have been the designated fall guy ... the other members of the Navy Board just forgot to tell him ahead of time. And then Carteret (as Vice Chancellor of the Royal Household, not Treasurer of the Navy) gets angry with him for speaking up. Perhaps Carteret felt that Pepys was being disloyal making York responsible for the communication with Charles II? According to Captain Cocke, Carteret is more influential than York with Charles. Which begs the question of why Carteret hadn't taken care of business. Or perhaps he has???
I think this repudiates Cape Henry's assertion above, that "the three options are tell the truth, lie, or say nothing - but do not trouble the king with reality. Pepys seems to have deliberately chosen the third. With the DoY present, does he not risk his reputation for knowledgeable candor?"
Pepys spoke up appropriately in the meeting. Now they are in the park being social, the information had been passed to James, Duke of York, and Pepys stands there as a reminder that there was work to be done. It sounds like James -- not Carteret -- dragged Charles away to do it.
It's mid-February. They have a month -- six weeks at best -- before the fleet must be ready in case the peace talks fail. This time last year Rupert was dining with the Captains and establishing good relationships, which seem to have paid off.