Wednesday 24 April 1667

Up, and with [Sir] W. Pen to St. James’s, and there the Duke of York was preparing to go to some further ceremonies about the Garter, that he could give us no audience. Thence to Westminster Hall, the first day of the Term, and there joyed Mrs. Michell, who is mightily pleased with my wife’s work yesterday, and so away to my barber’s about my periwigg, and then to the Exchange, there to meet Fenn about some money to be borrowed of the office of the Ordnance to answer a great pinch. So home to dinner, and in the afternoon met by agreement (being put on it by Harry Bruncker’s frighting us into a despatch of Carcasse’s business) [Lord] Bruncker, T. Harvey, [Sir] J. Minnes, [Sir] W. Batten, and I (Sir W. Pen keeping out of the way still), where a great many high words from Bruncker, and as many from me and others to him, and to better purpose, for I think we have fortified ourselves to overthrow his man Carcasse, and to do no honour to him. We rose with little done but great heat, not to be reconciled I doubt, and I care not, for I will be on the right side, and that shall keep me. Thence by coach to Sir John Duncomb’s lodging in the Pell Mell,1 in order to the money spoken of in the morning; and there awhile sat and discoursed: and I find him that he is a very proper man for business, being very resolute and proud, and industrious. He told me what reformation they had made in the office of the Ordnance, taking away Legg’s fees: and have got an order that no Treasurer after him shall ever sit at the Board; and it is a good one: that no master of the Ordnance here shall ever sell a place. He tells me they have not paid any increase of price for any thing during this war, but in most have paid less; and at this day have greater stores than they know where to lay, if there should be peace, and than ever was any time this war. That they pay every man in course, and have notice of the disposal of every farthing. Every man that they owe money to has his share of every sum they receive; never borrowed all this war but 30,000l. by the King’s express command, but do usually stay till their assignments become payable in their own course, which is the whole mystery, that they have had assignments for a fifth part of whatever was assigned to the Navy. They have power of putting out and in of all officers; are going upon a building that will cost them 12,000l.; that they out of their stock of tallies have been forced to help the Treasurer of the Navy at this great pinch. Then to talk of newes: that he thinks the want of money hath undone the King, for the Parliament will never give the King more money without calling all people to account, nor, as he believes, will ever make war again, but they will manage it themselves: unless, which I proposed, he would visibly become a severer inspector into his own business and accounts, and that would gain upon the Parliament yet: which he confesses and confirms as the only lift to set him upon his legs, but says that it is not in his nature ever to do. He says that he believes but four men (such as he could name) would do the business of both offices, his and ours, and if ever the war were to be again it should be so, he believes. He told me to my face that I was a very good clerk, and did understand the business and do it very well, and that he would never desire a better. He do believe that the Parliament, if ever they meet, will offer some alterations to the King, and will turn some of us out, and I protest I think he is in the right that either they or the King will be advised to some regulations, and therefore I ought to beware, as it is easy for me to keep myself up if I will. He thinks that much of our misfortune hath been for want of an active Lord Treasurer, and that such a man as Sir W. Coventry would do the business thoroughly. This talk being over, comes his boy and tells us [Sir] W. Coventry is come in, and so he and I to him, and there told the difficulty of getting this money, and they did play hard upon Sir G. Carteret as a man moped and stunned, not knowing which way to turn himself. Sir W. Coventry cried that he was disheartened, and I do think that there is much in it, but Sir J. Duncomb do charge him with mighty neglect in the pursuing of his business, and that he do not look after it himself, but leaves it to Fenn, so that I do perceive that they are resolved to scheme at bringing the business into a better way of execution, and I think it needs, that is the truth of it. So I away to Sir G. Carteret’s lodgings about this money, and contrary to expectation I find he hath prevailed with Legg on his own bond to lend him 2000l., which I am glad of, but, poor man, he little sees what observations people do make upon his management, and he is not a man fit to be told what one hears. Thence by water at 10 at night from Westminster Bridge, having kissed little Frank, and so to the Old Swan, and walked home by moonshine, and there to my chamber a while, and supper and to bed.

13 Annotations

First Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"I think we have fortified ourselves to overthrow his man Carcasse, and to do no honour to him. We rose with little done but great heat, not to be reconciled I doubt, and I care not, for I will be on the right side, and that shall keep me:"

"doubt" here = suspect.

***

Here we find Pepys (who had caught him embezzling) in the role like that James Carkasse will cast him in a poem among those he will write in Bedlam in 1678-79.

Mr. Pepys, who hath my Rival been
For the Duk’es favour, more than years thirteen:
But I excluded, he High and Fortunate…

http://roy25booth.blogspot.com/20…

Paul Chapin  •  Link

"He told me to my face that I was a very good clerk"

Damning with faint praise? In the context it sounds like SP is not one of Sir John's "four men (such as he could name) would do the business of both offices," although he might be a valuable staffer for them. Maybe Sir John thinks Sam just doesn't have the clout that is needed to set things right.

Mr. Gunning  •  Link

The Board of Ordnance was a British government body responsible for the supply of armaments and munitions to the Royal Navy (until 1830) and British Army. It was also responsible for providing artillery trains for armies and maintaining coastal fortresses and, later, management of the artillery and engineer corps. It also produced maps for military purposes, a function later taken over by the Ordnance Survey. The board existed under various names from at least the early fifteenth century until 1855, with headquarters in the Tower of London.

Ralph Berry  •  Link

" a function later taken over by Ordnance Survey"

Thanks for that Mr G. I have always wondered why it was called "Ordnance Survey".

Wikipedia has an interesting history of Ordnance Survey. British mapping has always been of the best quality compared with many other countries.

Ruben  •  Link

"he is not a man fit to be told what one hears"
I like this!

Terry Foreman  •  Link

ord·nance
Pronunciation: \ˈȯrd-nən(t)s\
Etymology: Middle English ordinaunce, from Anglo-French ordenance disposition, preparation, military provisions — more at ordinance
Date: 14th century

1 a : military supplies including weapons, ammunition, combat vehicles, and maintenance tools and equipment b : a service of the army charged with the procuring, distributing, and safekeeping of ordnance
2 : cannon, artillery

http://www.merriam-webster.com/di…

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"...there to meet Fenn about some money to be borrowed of the office of the Ordnance to answer a great pinch."

Shifting funds around eh?

Australian Susan  •  Link

"...to answer a great pinch..."
Sounds horribly to me like those desperate measures people take when they start applying for new credit cards to get cash advances on to pay off the old credit cards.....

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"He told me what reformation they had made in the office of the Ordnance....[and] that they have had assignments for a fifth part of whatever was assigned to the Navy."

L&M: Pepys had on 14 March told the King that the solvency of the Ordnance Office was largely due to their 'liberty in demanding': Further Corr., p.163.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

L&M: [Are beginning upon a building that will cost them 12000l.]

Note: The New Armouries: a series of alterations and additions to the offices and storehouses in the Tower: CSPD 1667, p. 52.

James Morgan  •  Link

"He told me to my face that I was a very good clerk, and did understand the business and do it very well, and that he would never desire a better." I took this to be a hig compliment, rather than "faint praise", given the lack of competent officials in the era. He might indeed be one of the "four good men".

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