Tuesday 25 June 1667
Up, and with Sir W. Pen in his new chariot (which indeed is plain, but pretty and more fashionable in shape than any coach he hath, and yet do not cost him, harness and all, above 32l.) to White Hall; where staid a very little: and thence to St. James’s to [Sir] W. Coventry, whom I have not seen since before the coming of the Dutch into the river, nor did indeed know how well to go see him, for shame either to him or me, or both of us, to find ourselves in so much misery. I find that he and his fellow-Treasurers are in the utmost want of money, and do find fault with Sir G. Carteret, that, having kept the mystery of borrowing money to himself so long, to the ruin of the nation, as [Sir] W. Coventry said in words to [Sir] W. Pen and me, he should now lay it aside and come to them for money for every penny he hath, declaring that he can raise no more: which, I confess, do appear to me the most like ill-will of any thing that I have observed of [Sir] W. Coventry, when he himself did tell us, on another occasion at the same time, that the bankers who used to furnish them money are not able to lend a farthing, and he knows well enough that that was all the mystery [Sir] G. Carteret did use, that is, only his credit with them. He told us the masters and owners of the two ships that I had complained of, for not readily setting forth their ships, which we had taken up to make men-of-war, had been yesterday with the King and Council, and had made their case so well understood, that the King did owe them for what they had earned the last year, that they could not set them out again without some money or stores out of the King’s Yards; the latter of which [Sir] W. Coventry said must be done, for that they were not able to raise money for them, though it was but 200l. a ship: which do skew us our condition to be so bad, that I am in a total despair of ever having the nation do well. After talking awhile, and all out of heart with stories of want of seamen, and seamen’s running away, and their demanding a month’s advance, and our being forced to give seamen 3s. a-day to go hence to work at Chatham, and other things that show nothing but destruction upon us; for it is certain that, as it now is, the seamen of England, in my conscience, would, if they could, go over and serve the King of France or Holland rather than us. Up to the Duke of York to his chamber, where he seems to be pretty easy, and now and then merry; but yet one may perceive in all their minds there is something of trouble and care, and with good reason. Thence to White Hall, and with Sir W. Pen, by chariot; and there in the Court met with my Lord Anglesey: and he to talk with [Sir] W. Pen, and told him of the masters of ships being with the Council yesterday, and that we were not in condition, though the men were willing, to furnish them with 200l. of money, already due to them as earned by them the last year, to enable them to set out their ships again this year for the King: which he is amazed at; and when I told him, “My Lord, this is a sad instance of the condition we are in,” he answered, that it was so indeed, and sighed: and so parted: and he up to the Council-chamber, where I perceive they sit every morning, and I to Westminster Hall, where it is Term time. I met with none I knew, nor did desire it, but only past through the-Hall and so back again, and by coach home to dinner, being weary indeed of seeing the world, and thinking it high time for me to provide against the foul weather that is certainly coming upon us. So to the office, and there [Sir] W. Pen and I did some business, and then home to dinner, where my wife pleases me mightily with what she can do upon the flageolet, and then I to the office again, and busy all the afternoon, and it is worth noting that the King and Council, in their order of the 23rd instant, for unloading three merchant-ships taken up for the King’s service for men- of-war, do call the late coming of the Dutch “an invasion.” I was told, yesterday, that Mr. Oldenburg, our Secretary at Gresham College, is put into the Tower, for writing newes to a virtuoso in France, with whom he constantly corresponds in philosophical matters; which makes it very unsafe at this time to write, or almost do any thing. Several captains come to the office yesterday and to-day, complaining that their men come and go when they will, and will not be commanded, though they are paid every night, or may be. Nay, this afternoon comes Harry Russell from Gravesend, telling us that the money carried down yesterday for the Chest at Chatham had like to have been seized upon yesterday, in the barge there, by seamen, who did beat our watermen: and what men should these be but the boat’s crew of Sir Fretcheville Hollis, who used to brag so much of the goodness and order of his men, and his command over them. Busy all the afternoon at the office. Towards night I with Mr. Kinaston to White Hall about a Tangier order, but lost our labour, only met Sir H. Cholmly there, and he tells me great newes; that this day in Council the King hath declared that he will call his Parliament in thirty days: which is the best newes I have heard a great while, and will, if any thing, save the kingdom. How the King come to be advised to this, I know not; but he tells me that it was against the Duke of York’s mind flatly, who did rather advise the King to raise money as he pleased; and against the Chancellor’s, who told the King that Queen Elizabeth did do all her business in eighty-eight without calling a Parliament, and so might he do, for anything he saw. But, blessed be God! it is done; and pray God it may hold, though some of us must surely go to the pot, for all must be flung up to them, or nothing will be done. So back home, and my wife down by water, I sent her, with Mrs. Hewer and her son, W. Hewer, to see the sunk ships, while I staid at the office, and in the evening was visited by Mr. Roberts the merchant by us about the getting him a ship cleared from serving the King as a man of war, which I will endeavour to do. So home to supper and to bed.
26 Annotations
First Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"that was all the mystery [Sir] G. Carteret did use, that is, only his credit with them."
[ L&M note this was referenced in subsequent parliamentary debate: ] Wednesday, November 17 1669
[Consideration of the Report from the Commissioners of Accounts resumed.]
Commissioners of Accounts.] On Monday last Sir George Carteret brought from the Officers of the Exchequer the original order from his Majesty; the Commissioners took Mr Burgess's oath upon it. Observation, The warrant was the 20th of November, 1665. Order for the sum to the Lord Treasurer, and the Privy-seal subsequent to that warrant—Many Privy-seals, but not one penny to the Victualler, though to many other uses.
Mr Henry Coventry.] Upon the division of the House, he was allowed Counsel, though not to matter of fact, and moves he may have his Counsel now to speak for him.
Sir George Carteret.] When the King came in, he was placed Treasurer of the Navy, which was formerly given him by his Majesty. He has attended the Commissioners, to give them all satisfaction, which, it seems, he has not, and they have made observations on his proceedings. He protests he has not paid one penny, without sufficient vouchers, for the use of the war—It seems, they say, he has done nothing well, after all his pains and hazard of his person and fortune in the Plague: He came then, and with his credit kept the fleet abroad, and borrowed upon his own credit, without security, 280,000l. and has done all that possibly he could; but he will not talk of what he has done farther, though he knows many can justify it. They cannot say he ever took bribe, but has kept his Majesty's fleet abroad, when it must else have come home. He humbly submits himself to this House....
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…
Terry Foreman • Link
"Mr. Oldenburg, our Secretary at Gresham College, is put into the Tower, for writing newes to a virtuoso in France, with whom he constantly corresponds in philosophical matters;"
L&M think Arlington may have objected to Oldenburg's correspondence with Henri Justel, secretary to Louis XIV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henr…
Paul Chapin • Link
"Towards night I with Mr. Kinaston to White Hall about a Tangier order"
While it is charming to think of Sam being accompanied by Ned Kynaston, the transgender actor, on this grubby bit of business, as the rollover and link indicate, this is surely rather Mr. Edward Kinaston, a merchant involved in the Tangier victualing business. See http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclo…
cum salis grano • Link
"...to give seamen 3s. a-day to go hence...."
AB Sailors in the first world war got about the same 3s a day.
For all those old codgers who were drafted in the 1940s' and fifties they received 28s per week less mandatory tax and expenses, in my case, I actually got 7 shillings. Of course that sounds ridiculous now, but then I could get a cuppa of char for 1d or go to the flickers for 9d.
Mr. Gunning • Link
When I joined the Royal Navy in 1971 as a Junior Seaman at HMS Ganges, I was paid £7 a fortnight or 10s a day.
Andrew Hamilton • Link
But, blessed be God! it is done; and pray God it may hold, though some of us must surely go to the pot, for all must be flung up to them, or nothing will be done.
Truly remarkable as a strong indication of Pepys's republican tendencies. The debate on royal power and prerogatives will sound familiar to anyone familiar with John Yoo's highly enlarged view of inherent presidential power as manifested during the GW Bush administration debates on how far the executive could go in "taking the gloves off," in Dick Cheney's phrase.
It is particularly notable and in Sam's favor that he wants Parliament to call the fiscal shots even if it means that he and some others will have to "go to the pot" (Is that cannibal imagery, I wonder?) or be thrown to the wolves or "under the bus," as we say these days.
Terry Foreman • Link
“go to the pot”
The L&M Large Glossary suggests this means here "to be cut into pieces like meat for the pot, be ruined; [ OED ] 1530."
Terry Foreman • Link
"I to Westminster Hall, where it is Term time."
The courts are in session for Easter Term, and there are old school chums and rumor-mongers about.
cum salis grano • Link
"....\But, blessed be God! it is done; and pray God it may hold, though some of us must surely go to the pot, for all must be flung up to them, or nothing will be done. ..."
some OED
P3. to go to ({}the) pot: (originally) {}to be cooked or eaten, to be cut in pieces like meat for the pot (obs.);
(now fig. and colloq.) to be ruined or destroyed,
to deteriorate,
to go to pieces.
Soto bring (also send) to (the) pot (obs.),
put in the pot (obs.), etc.
....
1609 W. M. Man in Moone (1849) 8 All that hee can get or borrow goeth to the pot.
1657 R. LIGON True Hist. Barbados 120 The Sea-men..resolv'd, the Passengers should be drest and eaten, before any of them should goe to the Pot.
c1680 E. HICKERINGILL Hist. Whiggism in Wks. (1716) I. II. 158 Poor Thorp, Lord Chief Justice, went to Pot, in plain English, he was Hang'd.
...
c. to have a pot in the pate: to be the worse for alcohol. Obs.
1655
b. in one's (or the) pots: (while) drunk. Cf. in one's cups at CUP n. 10.
1618
cum salis grano • Link
somebody's goose be cooked?
A. De Araujo • Link
"I sent her, with Mrs. Hewer and her son,W.Hewer,to see the sunk ships."
The seventeenth century equivalent of visiting the ground zero.
JKM • Link
Thank you, Paul Chapin: I was wondering why in the world Sam was running a financial errand in company with the composer of "Mr Kynaston's Famous Dance" &c.
Re Sam's republicanism: he despairs of the country with nobody running things but this moth-hunting set of aristos. Doesn't mean he wants to get rid of them, he just believes a parliament will attend to business better than the king has been doing.
Phil Gyford • Link
"this is surely rather Mr. Edward Kinaston, a merchant involved in the Tangier victualing business."
I've corrected the link now. Less fun, more accurate!
Nix • Link
Samuel's enthusiasm for Parliament: the King can't pay for the war, his credit is exhausted, and only Parliament has the authority to levy taxes.
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"the Chancellor...told the King that Queen Elizabeth did do all her business in eighty-eight without calling a Parliament, and so might he do, for anything he saw."
L&M note this advice was one of the justifications for Parliament's impeachment of Clarendon in the following autumn. He contended (Life, iii, 252-60) he was recommending a council, rather than a parliament, handle necessary business, and there were legal difficulties recalling a Parliamen which had been prorogued until a later date (20 October) . Carteret, as well as the Duke of York were said to be against summoning Parliament.
Terry Foreman • Link
"with Sir W. Pen in his new chariot (which indeed is plain, but pretty and more fashionable in shape than any coach he hath, and yet do not cost him, harness and all, above 32l.)"
L&M: In 1668 Pepys paid £53 for his coach (apart from the painting):
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Terry Foreman • Link
"After talking awhile, and all out of heart with stories of want of seamen, and seamen’s running away, and their demanding a month’s advance, and our being forced to give seamen 3s. a-day to go hence to work at Chatham"
The normal rate for dockyard workers was 12d. or 18d. a day. Now they were demanding 2s. See report from Chatham, 24 June, CSPD Add. 1660-85, p. 200. Seamen serving on board ship mostly got 24s. a month:
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Terry Foreman • Link
"it is worth noting that the King and Council, in their order of the 23rd instant, for unloading three merchant-ships taken up for the King’s service for men- of-war, do call the late coming of the Dutch “an invasion.” "
L&M: PRO, PC 2/59, p. 466: the Royal Exchange, Society and Lewiswere taken up 'in regard to the invasion of the Dutch'. A full list of all the merchantmen hired for the royal service during the war is in PL 2589, ff. 84-8.
Terry Foreman • Link
"I was told, yesterday, that Mr. Oldenburg, our Secretary at Gresham College, is put into the Tower, for writing newes to a virtuoso in France, with whom he constantly corresponds in philosophical matters; which makes it very unsafe at this time to write, or almost do any thing. "
L&M : Henry Oldenburg had been arrested on 20 June and was released in late August. CSPD 1667, pp. 214, 215, 415, 418. He had corresponded on political as well as scientific subjects with French and Dutch virtuosi during the war, and had in fact passed on some of his news to Williamson, Arlington's secretary. The precise occasion of his disgrace is uncertain, but Arlington may have objected to his connection with the French Huguenot scholar Henri Justel. See A. R. and M. Hall (ed.), Corresp. H. Oldenburg, vol. iii, p. xxvi: D. MvKie in Notes and Records Roy. Soc., vi. 28+.
Terry Foreman • Link
"this day in Council the King hath declared that he will call his Parliament in thirty days: which is the best newes I have heard a great while, and will, if any thing, save the kingdom. "
L&M: A proclamation (26 June) recalled Parliment on 25 July, but it met only to be prorogued again until 10 October: Steele, no. 3495: CJ, viii. 692.
Terry Foreman • Link
"How the King come to be advised to this, I know not; but he tells me that it was against the Duke of York’s mind flatly, who did rather advise the King to raise money as he pleased; and against the Chancellor’s, who told the King that Queen Elizabeth did do all her business in eighty-eight without calling a Parliament, and so might he do, for anything he saw."
L&M: This advice was one of the justifications for Parliament's impeachment of Clarendon in the following autumn. His contention, according to his autobiography, was that that the occasion called for a 'more contracted council' than a Parliament, and that there were legal difficulties in now recalling a Parliament which had been prorogued to a later date (20 [sic] October): Life, iii. 252-60. Carteret, as well as the Duke of York and Clarendon , is said to have been against summoning Parkiament: Savile Corr. (ed. E. D. Cooper), p. 17.
Terry Foreman • Link
"was visited by Mr. Roberts the merchant by us about the getting him a ship cleared from serving the King as a man of war, which I will endeavour to do."
L&M: This was probable the Lewes https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
a merchantman in which William Roberts had a quarter-share. She had served as a frigate since 1664 and was paid off and released at the end of the summer: CSPD 1665, pp. 239, 292; PL 2265, no. 19; PL 2871, p. 663.
David G • Link
The Duke of York’s son died a week ago and today he is merry (at least some of the time)? No wonder he didn’t become a popular king, his religious beliefs aside.
Alev Öncül • Link
I guess the word "skew" should be "shew".
Mary K • Link
Exactly so. Latham & Mattthews read "shew" at this point.
San Diego Sarah • Link
Interesting; my 2000 copy of L&M says "show" as Alev guessed. Maybe each edition gets updated for the current spelling? For instance, Pen is spelled Penn consistently throughout in my copy.