Friday 30 August 1667
Up, and to White Hall, where at the Council Chamber I hear Barker’s business is like to come to a hearing to-day, having failed the last day. I therefore to Westminster to see what I could do in my ’Chequer business about Tangier, and finding nothing to be done, returned, and in the Lobby staid till almost noon expecting to hear Barker’s business, but it was not called, so I come away. Here I met with Sir G. Downing, who tells me of Sir W. Pen’s offering to lend 500l.; and I tell him of my 300l., which he would have me to lend upon the credit of the latter part of the Act; saying, that by that means my 10 per cent. will continue to me the longer. But I understand better, and will do it upon the 380,000l., which will come to be paid the sooner; there being no delight in lending money now, to be paid by the King two years hence. But here he and Sir William Doyly were attending the Council as Commissioners for sick and wounded, and prisoners: and they told me their business, which was to know how we shall do to release our prisoners; for it seems the Dutch have got us to agree in the treaty, as they fool us in anything, that the dyet of the prisoners on both sides shall be paid for, before they be released; which they have done, knowing ours to run high, they having more prisoners of ours than we have of theirs; so that they are able and most ready to discharge the debt of theirs, but we are neither able nor willing to do that for ours, the debt of those in Zealand only, amounting to above 5000l. for men taken in the King’s own ships, besides others taken in merchantmen, which expect, as is usual, that the King should redeem them; but I think he will not, by what Sir G. Downing says. This our prisoners complain of there; and say in their letters, which Sir G. Downing shewed me, that they have made a good feat that they should be taken in the service of the King, and the King not pay for their victuals while prisoners for him. But so far they are from doing thus with their men, as we do to discourage ours, that I find in the letters of some of our prisoners there, which he shewed me, that they have with money got our men, that they took, to work and carry their ships home for them; and they have been well rewarded, and released when they come into Holland: which is done like a noble, brave, and wise people.
Having staid out my time that I thought fit for me to return home, I home and there took coach and with my wife to Walthamstow; to Sir W. Pen’s, by invitation, the first time I have been there, and there find him and all their guests (of our office only) at dinner, which was a very bad dinner, and everything suitable, that I never knew people in my life that make their flutter, that do things so meanly. I was sick to see it, but was merry at some ridiculous humours of my Lady Batten, who, as being an ill-bred woman, would take exceptions at anything any body said, and I made good sport at it.
After dinner into the garden and wilderness, which is like the rest of the house, nothing in order, nor looked after. By and by comes newes that my Lady Viner was come to see Mrs. Lowther, which I was glad of, and all the pleasure I had here was to see her, which I did, and saluted her, and find she is pretty, though not so eminently so as people talked of her, and of very pretty carriage and discourse. I sat with them and her an hour talking and pleasant, and then slunk away alone without taking leave, leaving my wife there to come home with them, and I to Bartholomew fayre, to walk up and down; and there, among other things, find my Lady Castlemayne at a puppet-play, “Patient Grizill,” and the street full of people expecting her coming out. I confess I did wonder at her courage to come abroad, thinking the people would abuse her; but they, silly people! do not know her work she makes, and therefore suffered her with great respect to take coach, and she away, without any trouble at all, which I wondered at, I confess.
I only walked up and down, and, among others, saw Tom Pepys, the turner, who hath a shop, and I think lives in the fair when the fair is not. I only asked how he did as he stood in the street, and so up and down sauntering till late and then home, and there discoursed with my wife of our bad entertainment to-day, and so to bed.
I met Captain Cocke to-day at the Council Chamber and took him with me to Westminster, who tells me that there is yet expectation that the Chancellor will lose the Seal, and that he is sure that the King hath said it to him who told it him, and he fears we shall be soon broke in pieces, and assures me that there have been high words between the Duke of York and Sir W. Coventry, for his being so high against the Chancellor; so as the Duke of York would not sign some papers that he brought, saying that he could not endure the sight of him: and that Sir W. Coventry answered, that what he did was in obedience to the King’s commands; and that he did not think any man fit to serve a Prince, that did not know how to retire and live a country life. This is all I hear.
20 Annotations
First Reading
Robert Gertz • Link
Good treatment of war prisoners always pays substantial dividends...Amazing though how some nations continue to ignore that lesson and opt for the harshest measures.
I wonder that Bess took being left alone at the dinner while Sam ran off to the fair so calmly unless Penn and Batten winked at whatever ridiculous excuse of business Sam made.
"Business, Mrs. P? What business? Batten, is there something going on at the office today?"
"You know our Pepys, Penn." Batten shrugs. "Always some little matter he's not happy about unless his personal stamp's on it."
"Maybe we should go and see what's what?" Admiral Sir Will suggests.
"Outrageous that he left like that...Without even taking leave of us." Lady Batten, taking exception.
"Pepys? Probably ran off to Bartholomew Fair...Or some..." Minnes, shaking head.
Oops...Notes Bess, eyeing him.
"...matter at the office. Yes, perpetually busy little fellow."
"No doubt, no doubt." Penn catching glance from Batten.
"The brotherhood in effect, my dear." Lady Batten hisses to Bess. "They may all hate each other dearly but when it comes to protecting their right to run off without us...They are as one."
cum salis grano • Link
Some forget "wot ye soe, be wot ye weep"
Pain always leaves a deeper memory than normal pleasure.
Pat Fogarty • Link
Anyone have an idea how Pepys expected the crowd to treat Lady Castlemayne? Did he expect the crowd to string her up? I would think that there was a protocol to treat a royal mistress with respect, at minimum out of fear of reprisal from the King.
I understand that Samuel is angry about the way that Lady Castlemayne is diverting Charles' attention away from affairs of business. But did he actually expect the crowd would confront her about this? Is there any record of a royal mistress being confronted by a crowd of angry citizens? Probably a purely rhetorical question.
classicist • Link
How did Pepys expect the crowd to treat Lady Castlemaine?
All the info I know is the old story: the mob were hostile to Nell Gwyn because she was the King's 'Papist doxy'. 'No,' she replied, 'I'm his Protestant whore!'
Of course, Lady Castlemaine lacked both the wit and the humility . . .which probably explains why she was more successful.
Geoff Hallett • Link
Have just been listening to part of Henry Purcell's Death of Queen Mary. Do we know if Sam was in the Abbey for the funeral?
cum salis grano • Link
"How did Pepys expect the crowd to treat Lady Castlemaine?"
When the guys/gals in the street had food and a bed for a good "knights" kip , all they would say be "lucky she" but as so many now have been plagued with fire and no dough, dusty strewn lots and just near worthless ious, the tummy be rumbling then seeing jammy tarts riding high in glass protected wagons,they be thinking wot 'appened to Charlie one maybe should happen to another proper charlie. When the three essentials be missing, and there be those that tart around in silks and well fed bosoms, they be fodder for rumbling tums tums creating discontent, very little happens until Charlies buddies feel the pain then, oh well what is sown now will bear fruit in '88.
Samuel be a plotting a tactful course, like any good sailor in life.
He is one that uses his noodle and his wits.
cum salis grano • Link
here is Samuel's answer in a walnut shell.
"...I confess I did wonder at her courage to come abroad, thinking the people would abuse her; but they, silly people! do not know her work she makes, and therefore suffered her with great respect to take coach, and she away, without any trouble at all, which I wondered at, I confess. ..."
As Milton points out people want "sumfink" to look up too, in-spite, most be lemming like until "gurgle gurgle".
Silly people.
Terry Foreman • Link
"Do we know if Sam was in the Abbey for the funeral [of Queen Mary II? "
Methinks we do not know, but, at that time retired -- after a patch in stir for his loyalty to (the Roman Catholic) James Stuart (the Duke of York in 1667) and having refused to swear loyalty to her husband William III -- why would he be?
Robert Gertz • Link
Sam has the insider's view of Lady Castlemaine and it seems he thought it was widely shared among the people or at least wondered if it was.
language hat • Link
Most people have a hard time realizing that other people do not see things the way they do.
Robert Gertz • Link
One wonders if Sam's lost just a little of his former touch in seizing up the situation among the people that once served Sandwich so well through his reports. Inevitable I suppose given his new status, though he remains England's finest reporter.
cum salis grano • Link
"One wonders if Sam’s lost just a little of his former touch in seizing up the situation"
His daily orbit has changed from the far outer edges of society to now being closer to the Sun to the point of being singed, we can only sense what our senses allow us.
LH says it so distinctly.
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"the Dutch have got us to agree in the treaty, as they fool us in anything, that the dyet of the prisoners on both sides shall be paid for, before they be released; "
L&M note this provision is in Article X of the Treaty.
Terry Foreman • Link
"that Sir W. Coventry answered, that what he did was in obedience to the King’s commands; and that he did not think any man fit to serve a Prince, that did not know how to retire and live a country life."
For Coventry's part in the fall of Clarendon, see http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… and cf. Clarendon, Life, iii. 256. Coventry retired to Oxfordshire in 1668.
Terry Foreman • Link
"that the dyet of the prisoners on both sides shall be paid for, before they be released; which they have done, knowing ours to run high, they having more prisoners of ours than we have of theirs; so that they are able and most ready to discharge the debt of theirs, but we are neither able nor willing to do that for ours, the debt of those in Zealand only, amounting to above 5000l. for men taken in the King’s own ships, besides others taken in merchantmen, which expect, as is usual, that the King should redeem them; but I think he will not, by what Sir G. Downing says."
L&M: Arrangements were made in fact for their release in December, and Downing was paid the £5000 about a year later:CTB, ii. 75, 148, 160, 482.
Terry Foreman • Link
"I met with Sir G. Downing, who tells me of Sir W. Pen’s offering to lend 500l.; and I tell him of my 300l., which he would have me to lend upon the credit of the latter part of the Act; saying, that by that means my 10 per cent. will continue to me the longer. But I understand better, and will do it upon the 380,000l.,"
L&M: This was the sum reserved in the Eleven Months Tax for the payment of seamen, and loans to provide it had been recommended to 'such as desired an early repayment': CTB, ii. 182. Other repayments under the act did not fall due until February 1669. There is no trace either in the diary or in the Exchequer records of any loan by Pepys at this time.
mountebank • Link
For anyone able to access BBC radio or iPlayer, this was broadcast earlier today (Sunday):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/…
It can be listened to again on the BBC iPlayer. Or if you're quick, it will be re-broadcast this evening at 8pm.
San Diego Sarah • Link
THANK YOU Mountbank ... the link says we have 29 days to listen to the pod, so I will be doing that this evening. What a treat.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"he did not think any man fit to serve a Prince, that did not know how to retire and live a country life."
The alternative:
"As he was valiant, I honor him; but, as he was ambitious, I slew him". -- William Shakespeare (1564-1616) – Julius Caesar - (Act III, Scene II).
San Diego Sarah • Link
A paper on the dismissal of Clarendon written by the Director of the history project for the House of Commons:
https://thehistoryofparliament.wo…
John Maitland, 2nd Earl of Lauderdale and Secretary of State for Scotland, was one of Charles II's grooms of the bedchamber at the time. He must have been on duty that night, which would account for his eye witness account of events.