Sunday 8 September 1667

(Lord’s day). Up, and walked to St. James’s; but there I find Sir W. Coventry gone from his chamber, and Mr. Wren not yet come thither. But I up to the Duke of York, and there, after being ready, my Lord Bruncker and I had an audience, and thence with my Lord Bruncker to White Hall, and he told me, in discourse, how that, though it is true that Sir W. Coventry did long since propose to the Duke of York the leaving his service, as being unable to fulfill it, as he should do, now he hath so much public business, and that the Duke of York did bid him to say nothing of it, but that he would take time to please himself in another to come in his place; yet the Duke’s doing it at this time, declaring that he hath found out another, and this one of the Chancellor’s servants, he cannot but think was done with some displeasure, and that it could not well be otherwise, that the Duke of York should keep one in that place, that had so eminently opposed him in the defence of his father-in-law, nor could the Duchesse ever endure the sight of him, to be sure. But he thinks that the Duke of York and he are parted upon clear terms of friendship. He tells me he do believe that my Lady Castlemayne is compounding with the King for a pension, and to leave the Court; but that her demands are mighty high: but he believes the King is resolved, and so do every body else I speak with, to do all possible to please the Parliament; and he do declare that he will deliver every body up to them to give an account of their actions: and that last Friday, it seems, there was an Act of Council passed, to put out all Papists in office, and to keep out any from coming in.

I went to the King’s Chapel to the closet, and there I hear Cresset sing a tenor part along with the Church musick very handsomely, but so loud that people did laugh at him, as a thing done for ostentation. Here I met Sir G. Downing, who would speak with me, and first to inquire what I paid for my kid’s leather gloves I had on my hand, and shewed me others on his, as handsome, as good in all points, cost him but 12d. a pair, and mine me 2s. He told me he had been seven years finding out a man that could dress English sheepskin as it should be — and, indeed, it is now as good, in all respects, as kid, and he says will save 100,000l. a-year, that goes out to France for kid’s skins. Thus he labours very worthily to advance our own trade, but do it with mighty vanity and talking. But then he told me of our base condition, in the treaty with Holland and France, about our prisoners, that whereas before we did clear one another’s prisoners, man for man, and we upon the publication of the peace did release all our’s, 300 at Leith, and others in other places for nothing, the Dutch do keep theirs, and will not discharge them with[out] paying their debts according to the Treaty. That his instruments in Holland, writing to our Embassadors about this to Bredagh, they answer them that they do not know of any thing that they have done therein, but left it just as it was before. To which, when they answer, that by the treaty their Lordships had [not] bound our countrymen to pay their debts in prison, they answer they cannot help it, and we must get them off as cheap as we can. On this score, they demand 1100l. for Sir G. Ascue, and 5000l. for the one province of Zealand, for the prisoners that we have therein. He says that this is a piece of shame that never any nation committed, and that our very Lords here of the Council, when he related this matter to them, did not remember that they had agreed to this article; and swears that all their articles are alike, as the giving away Polleroon, and Surinam, and Nova Scotia, which hath a river 300 miles up the country, with copper mines more than Swedeland, and Newcastle coals, the only place in America that hath coals that we know of; and that Cromwell did value those places, and would for ever have made much of them; but we have given them away for nothing, besides a debt to the King of Denmarke. But, which is most of all, they have discharged those very particular demands of merchants of the Guinny Company and others, which he, when he was there, had adjusted with the Dutch, and come to an agreement in writing, and they undertaken to satisfy, and that this was done in black and white under their hands; and yet we have forgiven all these, and not so much as sent to Sir G. Downing to know what he had done, or to confer with him about any one point of the treaty, but signed to what they would have, and we here signed to whatever in grosse was brought over by Mr. Coventry. And [Sir G. Downing] tells me, just in these words, “My Lord Chancellor had a mind to keep himself from being questioned by clapping up a peace upon any terms.” When I answered that there was other privy-councillors to be advised with besides him, and that, therefore, this whole peace could not be laid to his charge, he answered that nobody durst say any thing at the council-table but himself, and that the King was as much afeard of saying any thing there as the meanest privy-councillor; and says more, that at this day the King, in familiar talk, do call the Chancellor “the insolent man,” and says that he would not let him speak himself in Council: which is very high, and do shew that the Chancellor is like to be in a bad state, unless he can defend himself better than people think. And yet Creed tells me that he do hear that my Lord Cornbury do say that his father do long for the coming of the Parliament, in order to his own vindication, more than any one of his enemies. And here it comes into my head to set down what Mr. Rawlinson, whom I met in Fenchurch Street on Friday last, looking over his ruines there, told me, that he was told by one of my Lord Chancellor’s gentlemen lately (———— byname), that a grant coming to him to be sealed, wherein the King hath given her [Lady Castlemaine], or somebody by her means, a place which he did not like well of, he did stop the grant; saying, that he thought this woman would sell everything shortly: which she hearing of, she sent to let him know that she had disposed of this place, and did not doubt, in a little time, to dispose of his. This Rawlinson do tell me my Lord Chancellor’s own gentleman did tell him himself.

Thence, meeting Creed, I with him to the Parke, there to walk a little, and to the Queen’s Chapel and there hear their musique, which I liked in itself pretty well as to the composition, but their voices are very harsh and rough that I thought it was some instruments they had that made them sound so.

So to White Hall, and saw the King and Queen at dinner; and observed (which I never did before), the formality, but it is but a formality, of putting a bit of bread wiped upon each dish into the mouth of every man that brings a dish; but it should be in the sauce. Here were some Russes come to see the King at dinner: among others, the interpreter, a comely Englishman, in the Envoy’s own clothes; which the Envoy, it seems, in vanity did send to show his fine clothes upon this man’s back, which is one, it seems, of a comelier presence than himself: and yet it is said that none of their clothes are their own, but taken out of the King’s own Wardrobe; and which they dare not bring back dirty or spotted, but clean, or are in danger of being beaten, as they say: insomuch that, Sir Charles Cotterell says, when they are to have an audience they never venture to put on their clothes till he appears to come to fetch them; and, as soon as ever they come home, put them off again.

I to Sir G. Carteret’s to dinner; where Mr. Cofferer Ashburnham; who told a good story of a prisoner’s being condemned at Salisbury for a small matter. While he was on the bench with his father-in-law, judge Richardson, and while they were considering to transport him to save his life, the fellow flung a great stone at the judge, that missed him, but broke through the wainscoat. Upon this, he had his hand cut off, and was hanged presently! Here was a gentleman, one Sheres, one come lately from my Lord Sandwich, with an express; but, Lord! I was almost ashamed to see him, lest he should know that I have not yet wrote one letter to my Lord since his going. I had no discourse with him, but after dinner Sir G. Carteret and I to talk about some business of his, and so I to Mrs. Martin, where was Mrs. Burroughs, and also fine Mrs. Noble, my partner in the christening of Martin’s child, did come to see it, and there we sat and talked an hour, and then all broke up and I by coach home, and there find Mr. Pelling and Howe, and we to sing and good musique till late, and then to supper, and Howe lay at my house, and so after supper to bed with much content, only my mind a little troubled at my late breach of vowes, which however I will pay my forfeits, though the badness of my eyes, making me unfit to read or write long, is my excuse, and do put me upon other pleasures and employment which I should refrain from in observation of my vowes.

34 Annotations

First Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Ormond to Orrery
Written from: Kilkenny
Date: 8 September 1667

Neither the Proclamation [of Peace], nor the copy of Secretary Sir W. Coventry's letter, enable the Lord Lieutenant "to judge whether the Harbour of Kinsale, or the seas in that province [of Munster], are included in the Peace or no. ... It is certainly the safest to do as if we were sure they are not; and consequently not yet to remove the army-companies." ...

Is as yet perfectly in the dark as to the grounds of late proceedings against my Lord Chancellor of England, but is very confident that his Lordship will be found to be free from any guilt towards the King ... in matters of government or of judicature. ...

http://www.rsl.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwm…

Robert Gertz  •  Link

Hmmn...Downing in a reflective mood. I'd beware Sam...He might not care to remember praising Oliver to you, even indirectly. And be sure to "buy English" in your next glove purchase...At least one pair to show him.

***

An innocent moment with dear ole Bets Martin...Nice when the friendship is as strong at least as the fooling around. He obviously likes her company as much as her athletic abilities with chairs.

***

On the other side of the mistress ledger, Castlemaine doing her best to prove she's running strictly a business operation.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"...though the badness of my eyes, making me unfit to read or write long..." There's a sad and terrifying thing for a man so dedicated to and dependent on the use of the eyes to face.

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"Lord Cornbury"
His son,Edward Hyde Viscount Cornbury,was Governor of New York and New Jersey and had a very bad reputation as being corrupt and also a cross dresser;he was somewhat rehabilitated about 10 years ago.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

And now Pepys must prepare to stand without his second mentor, Coventry. Though he has been increasingly his own man these last few years, it must be a terrifying thing to imagine having no senior protector to fall back on for cover. No longer Sandwich's or Coventry's "bright young man", even if Jamie likes him the burden of any disgrace or failure now will fall squarely on Pepysian shoulders at least as much as any of the senior titled officers.

JWB  •  Link

Aleksey Mikhailovich Romanov was Tsar, father to Peter the Great. He had just gotten out of an unprofitable war with Sweden over division of spoils in war with Poland, the latter war having strung out some ten years. Don't suppose he could afford sheep skin gloves, let alone kid skin.

Bradford  •  Link

"putting a bit of bread wiped upon each dish into the mouth of every man that brings a dish; but it should be in the sauce."

---as the best disguise for the poison?

cum salis grano  •  Link

"...the fellow flung a great stone at the judge, that missed him, but broke through the wainscoat. Upon this, he had his hand cut off, and was hanged presently..."

It should have been a shoe, thus his life be spared.

cum salis grano  •  Link

I loved my Kid skin gloves [and Dingo too so un PC], the only problem being, they would get soaked and shrink and if a certain jury had the pleasure having had fine kid gloves they too would have known that wet kid gloves would never fit,thus would never had acquit.

How we doth like have gotten a bargain of only paying half the price merchandise as other well heeled Nouveau Riche.

cum salis grano  •  Link

Such wonderful mixture of history and personnel pleasures and insights to how the world is really run.

So many parallels to our modern world, only the nouns seem to change.

JWB  •  Link

History of Nova Scotia - Acadiens in New France (l'Acadie, Nova Scotia)

http://www.louisianeacadien.com/n…

"In 1654, a force of soldiers from Boston under the command of Robert Sedgewick attacked the fort of Port Royal during a campaign initiated due to Oliver Cromwell's orders to clear Nova Scotia of the French. With the French surrender in Nova Scotia as a result of Sedgewick's victories, all French military personnel were sent back to France. In 1655, Cromwell sent Sir Thomas Temple to l'Acadie with the title of Governor. It is believed that it was during this voyage with Sir Thomas Temple that Pierre dit LaVerdure, his wife Priscilla, and their sons, Pierre, Charles and Jean arrived in l'Acadie.

England maintained control of l'Acadie until the Treaty of Breda was signed on July 31, 1667, returning l'Acadie to France."

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"Acadie"
The french population eventually moved to New Orleans and nowadays are known as "cajuns".

laura k  •  Link

"The french population eventually moved to New Orleans and nowadays are known as “cajuns”."

Although thousands of Acadians were expelled from L'Acadie by the British in the 1750s and 1760s, and eventually settled in Louisiana (not only New Orelans), their descendants still live in the Maritime provinces of Canada and in the US state of Maine. Especially in the province of New Brunswick (Canada's only officially bilingual province), many still identify themselves as Acadians.

Whenever a large population of people "move," it is seldom by choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad…

laura k  •  Link

"The french population eventually moved to New Orleans and nowadays are known as “cajuns”."

Although thousands of Acadians were expelled from L'Acadie by the British in the 1750s and 1760s, and eventually settled in Louisiana (not only New Orleans), their descendants still live in the Maritime provinces of Canada and in the US state of Maine. Especially in the province of New Brunswick (Canada's only officially bilingual province), many still identify themselves as Acadians.

Whenever a large population of people "move," it is seldom by choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad…

Second Reading

MarkS  •  Link

The incident concerning of the prisoner throwing a brickbat at Judge Richardson is recorded in a well-known and quaint piece of Law French, the language of English lawyers at the time.

Apparently the prisonor "ject un Brickbat a le dit Justice que narrowly mist."

"Richardson, ch. Just. de C. Banc al Assises at Salisbury in Summer 1631. fuit assault per prisoner la condemne pur felony que puis son condemnation ject un Brickbat a le dit Justice que narrowly mist, & pur ceo immediately fuit Indictment drawn per Noy envers le Prisoner, & son dexter manus ampute & fix al Gibbet, sur que luy mesme immediatement hange in presence de Court."

Translation:

"Richardson, Ch(ief) Just(ice) of C(ommon) Bench at the Assizes at Salisbury in Summer 1631. There was an assault by a prisoner there condemned for felony; who, following his condemnation, threw a brickbat at the said Justice, which narrowly missed. And for this, an indictment was immediately drawn by Noy against the prisoner, and his right hand was cut off and fastened to the gibbet, on which he himself was immediately hanged in the presence of the Court."

The story goes that the Judge had a profound stoop, resulting from illness, and he later remarked, “You see, now, if I had been an *upright* judge I had been slaine.”

MarkS  •  Link

Sorry for the typos. I pressed Post by mistake rather than Preview, and there is no way to edit it later.

It would also help if comments were allowed to have markups like bold, italic and blockquote, as on most blogs.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Downing tells me "the Dutch do keep their [prisoners and will not discharge them from] paying their debts according to the Treaty."

L&M note

I take it the treaty says the prisoners are to be released even if they owe for their keep.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

" Nova Scotia...hath a river 300 miles up the country, with copper mines more than Swedeland, and Newcastle coals, the only place in America that hath coals that we know of"

The river was St John. The copper deposits were probably those of the Gaspé peninsula; the coal probably those on on the coast of Cape Breton Is. near the modern Sidney. Very little was then known by Europeans about these regions. (Downing had been brought up in New England and knew a little more than most Englishmen.) Nova Scotia, acquired in 1654, had been restored to the French by the recent Treaty of Breda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tre… and became British again only in 1713. (Per L&M footnote)

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"So to White Hall, and saw the King and Queen at dinner; and observed (which I never did before), the formality, but it is but a formality, of putting a bit of bread wiped upon each dish into the mouth of every man that brings a dish; but it should be in the sauce."

L&M note since 7 August, the Dutch war having ended, the King and Queen had dined in public three times a week in the Queen's presence chamber, 'with the usual solemnities and the band of violins'. The tasting or 'assay' was meant to ensure that no food was poisoned. Men of rank still occasionally had their drink tasted in this way; but it was usually just for royalty that the control was extended to food.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"Here were some Russes come to see the King at dinner"

Two envoys (Mikhail Golovin and Fedka Akichov) had been recently sent to announce the peace recently made by the Tsar with Poland. (L&M note)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tre…

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"and that last Friday, it seems, there was an Act of Council passed, to put out all Papists in office, and to keep out any from coming in."

L&M: The Council in fact on 6 September simply gave consideration to the parliamentary resolutions of 31 October 1666 to this effect: an order enforcing them was not passed until the 18th. All officers, civil and military, refusing the oaths of allegiance band supremacy were to be removed and replaced. The order was not effective. PRO, PC, 2/59, ff. 286v, 297v-298; cf. CJ, viii. 644. See also https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… and https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"Here I met Sir G. Downing, who would speak with me, and first to inquire what I paid for my kid’s leather gloves I had on my hand, and shewed me others on his, as handsome, as good in all points, cost him but 12d. a pair, and mine me 2s. He told me he had been seven years finding out a man that could dress English sheepskin as it should be — and, indeed, it is now as good, in all respects, as kid, and he says will save 100,000l. a-year, that goes out to France for kid’s skins."

L&M: Nothing more seems to be known of this scheme. Downing had been a keen promoter of protective legislation in 1600-3, and in October 1666 had been appointed chairman of a parliamentary committee for the advancement of English manufactures: CJ, viii. 632. He had attempted to introduce a new plough design from Spain and methods of pottery making from Holland:: Arlington, Letters (1701), ii. 48; Bodl., Clar. 108. f. 102r. Gloves in England were mostly made by domestic outworkers in Wiltshire and Somerset.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"that Cromwell did value those places, and would for ever have made much of them; but we have given them away for nothing, besides a debt to the King of Denmarke."

L&M: The treaty with Denmark cancelled a debt due to the English traders with Hamburg.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"But, which is most of all, they have discharged those very particular demands of merchants of the Guinny Company and others, which he, when he was there, had adjusted with the Dutch, and come to an agreement in writing, and they undertaken to satisfy, and that this was done in black and white under their hands;"

L&M: The règlements concludedin 1664: Lister, iii. 317-18, 330.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"... and that last Friday, it seems, there was an Act of Council passed, to put out all Papists in office, and to keep out any from coming in."

This is the first anniversary of the Great Fire. Remember how we felt one year after 9/11? Pretty raw, and uncertain that the bad guys wouldn't strike again. Londoners believed Roman Catholics had set fire to the City, and despite hanging someone who pleaded guilty but wasn't even in the country at the time, and hearing about the King's baker ... they didn't believe it.

And Roman Catholics were everywhere ... sitting next to Charles II at official dinners, engaged in negotiations with him about child support, and advising him on policies. Everywhere ...

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"He tells me he do believe that my Lady Castlemayne is compounding with the King for a pension ..."

I have only ever heard of compounding before in terms of Royalists being fined during the Civil Wars by Parliament, and if they failed to pay up, they lost their properties.

Barbara Villiers Palmer seems to be negotiating for child support and a pension. How is that "compounding"? Maybe this is a snide joke by Pepys who thinks housing, educating and protecting three of the King's bastards will be cheap?

Mary K  •  Link

compounding with the King

I take this to mean coming to an agreement with the King. i.e. negotiating common ground between opposing ends.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

I agree as to the logical meaning, Mary K. To be sure, I took a look at Pepys' Diary usage, and found it's not a word he uses much:

Tuesday 4 February 1667/68
"After dinner I abroad by coach to Kate Joyce’s, where the jury did sit where they did before, about her husband’s death, and their verdict put off for fourteen days longer, at the suit of somebody, under pretence of the King; but it is only to get money out of her to compound the matter." I.E. SETTLE -- A LEGAL MANIPULATION TO EXTORT MONEY (ahhh, that sounds like Barbara! -- and the Civil War meaning)

Friday 14 June 1667
"and told me that the officers of the Ordnance would deliver his gunner’s materials, but not compound them,1 but that we must do it;"
1 Meaning, apparently, that the Ordnance would deliver the charcoal, sulphur, and saltpetre separately, but not mix them as gunpowder. I.E. TO COMBINE, MIX (current usage)

Monday 11 September 1665
"After dinner to billiards, where I won an angel, and among other sports we were merry with my pretending to have a warrant to Sir W. Hickes (who was there, and was out of humour with Sir W. Doyly’s having lately got a warrant for a leash of buckes, of which we were now eating one) which vexed him, and at last would compound with me to give my Lord Bruncker half a buck now, and me a Doe for it a while hence when the season comes in, which we agreed to and had held, but that we fear Sir W. Doyly did betray our design, which spoiled all; however, my Lady Batten invited herself to dine with him this week, and she invited us all to dine with her there, which we agreed to, only to vex him, he being the most niggardly fellow, it seems, in the world." I.E. NEGOTIATE (Pepys' humorous usage of the legal term above)

Thursday 29 October 1663
"I only drinking some hypocras, which do not break my vowe, it being, to the best of my present judgement, only a mixed compound drink, and not any wine." I.E. TO COMBINE, MIX

My 1970's Webster's Dictionary of Synonyms only has current definitions. Google equally unhelpful.

So my take is that Pepys is using the word here to imply that Lady Castlemaine is wheedling more money out of Charles than she should. Pepys has a point ... she'd drained the treasury for years. On the other hand, she will have to bring up at least 3 children as the recognized children of the King, and that's expensive.

john  •  Link

From the OED:

compound, v.
II. To compose differences, settle claims.
(intr.)
10. to agree, make terms, bargain, contract (with, for). Also with indirect passive. Obs.

[A slew of similar meanings, all marked obsolete.]

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