Tuesday 17 September 1667
Up, and at the office all the morning, where Mr. Wren come to us and sat with us, only to learn, and do intend to come once or twice a week and sit with us. In the afternoon walked to the Old Swan, the way mighty dirty, and there called at Michell’s, and there had opportunity para kiss su moher, but elle did receive it with a great deal of seeming regret, which did vex me. But however I do not doubt overcoming her as I did the moher of the monsieur at Deptford. So thence by water to Westminster, to Burgess, and there did receive my orders for 1500l. more for Tangier. Thence to the Hall, and there talked a little with Mrs. Michell, and so to Mrs. Martin’s to pay for my cuffs and drink with her … [and did hazer la cosa with her. – L&M] And by and by away by coach and met with Sir H. Cholmly, and with him to the Temple, and there in Playford’s shop did give him some of my Exchequer orders and took his receipts, and so parted and home, and there to my business hard at the office, and then home, my wife being at Mrs. Turner’s, who and her husband come home with her, and here staid and talked and staid late, and then went away and we to bed.
But that which vexed me much this evening is that Captain Cocke and Sir W. Batten did come to me, and sat, and drank a bottle of wine, and told me how Sir W. Pen hath got an order for the “Flying Greyhound” for himself, which is so false a thing, and the part of a knave, as nothing almost can be more. This vexed me; but I resolve to bring it before the Duke, and try a pull for it.
16 Annotations
First Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
Filling in todays' Diary entry's ellipsis
"Thence to the Hall, and there talked a little with Mrs. Michell, and so to Mrs. Martin's to pay for my cuffs and drink with her, and did hazer la cosa with her."
L&M text.
Robert Gertz • Link
"...but elle did receive it with a great deal of seeming regret, which did vex me. But however I do not doubt overcoming her as I did the moher of the monsieur at Deptford..."
Truly pathetic Sam. Especially when, if Bess can't give you all you want as far as sex goes, Betty Martin seems eager and willing, in the friendiest manner possible. But, one must stand in awe of your honesty. You'll have to forgive me though if I could wish Michell would join Chris Knipp in horsewhipping you some dark night.
May the Bagwells even now be laughing their heads off at their easy mark.
Christopher Squire • Link
Re “Flying Greyhound” see:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclo…
language hat • Link
"You’ll have to forgive me though if I could wish Michell would join Chris Knipp in horsewhipping you some dark night."
I have to agree. I try to avoid judging our diarist by anachronistic standards, but sometimes I can't help saying: "What a jerk." (And yes, of course we're only able to make these judgments because of his remarkable honesty about himself; that doesn't mean we can't make judgments.)
Australian Susan • Link
This is not to condone Sam's behaviour, but, from other reading around the period, one can conclude that he was no worse than most of his contemporaries. And men in positions of power taking advantage of employees still happens to day, but the Bagwells etc of today can have recourse to law. (There is a very expensive and very public court case under way here in Australia against the ex-CEO of a department store chain.)
Quite often recently though, one is driven to think - "Oh, not *again*, Sam - go home!"
cum salis grano • Link
So many hi fliers have been brought down to earth because their lower brain is in control, the next cave has so many attractions.
The frailty of humans, many will never agree with this idea but the chemical balances, do play a part, we do like to say they have free will and a brain, but too many times it instant gratification appear to out win with the idea of future pain i.e. connecting the future consequences to past deeds.
See the popular strumpets of the day and the Rochester's poems to the "Pleasures" of the day.
Read the sacked ministers on the rantings about the 7 deadly sins.
Seven deadly sins versus the other extreme, 7 virtues
* 3.1 Lust, ( chastity ) o 3.1.1 Extravagance
* 3.2 Gluttony ( Temperance)
* 3.3 Greed (charity)
* 3.4 Sloth (Diligence ) o 3.4.1 Acedia o 3.4.2 Despair
* 3.5 Wrath (patience) * 3.6 Envy
* 3.7 Pride ( humility) o 3.7.1 Vainglory
"Give me chastity and continence, but not yet."
Saint Augustine
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Do harm.
cum salis grano • Link
Errata S/B: Do NO harm
language hat • Link
"And men in positions of power taking advantage of employees still happens to day"
Oh, sure, but what's so striking about Sam is that he doesn't limit himself to women he has direct control over (which would be totally unremarkable, though repellent), he forces his attentions on any woman he finds attractive who isn't of a social station to cause him trouble. He seems to take all women as his rightful prey. This is of course not a rare attitude, but it's not so common that it doesn't make the gorge rise.
Robert Gertz • Link
Still can't help feeling the Bagwells at least are not completely innocent victims...Certainly not William Bagwell and possibly not his missus. Though of course Sam deserves what he gets from us, regardless of the era...He knew forcing a woman to do this sort of thing was immoral, even if tolerated among the circles he now moves in.
Second Reading
Marquess • Link
Bagwell would indeed not have been an innocent victim, she knew there was something to be had by accomodating Pepys. In fact in it was probably likely that Sam was the only person of some influence Bagwell knew.
San Diego Sarah • Link
Robert Gertz' statement "... this sort of thing was immoral, even if tolerated among the circles he now moves in."
The reason there were so many sermons and such pressure exerted on the subject of fidelity was that there was a lot of premarital and extra-marital nookie going on amongst every age group, and all layers of society. Apparently historians have matched up wedding dates to the dates of births, and about 1/3 of Colonial American weddings involved the proverbial shotgun. So much for Puritanism.
Of course, "Intercourse prior to betrothal [NOT MARRIAGE -- BETROTHAL] appears to have been rare. From hugging and kissing in the living room to making out among the cabbages in the garden, people were aware of a wide variety of sexual activities that did not include actual intercourse and are known to have practiced them, although many were, technically, crimes."
Much more on the subject at https://grantvillegazette.com/art…
These people were not Victorians. But hypocrites, yes.
James Morgan • Link
It seems odd that Pepys is pursuing both the wife and the mother of Michell. Is Michell in some way subservient to Pepys like the Deptford fellow.
San Diego Sarah • Link
I think in Pepys fractured language moher means wife. So he's referring to Michael Mitchell's wife, Betty, and my guess is the Deptford reference is to the Bagwells. I don't think anyone's mother is involved -- yet.
Mrs. Mitchell Snr., and Mr. and Mrs. Howlett know Pepys from Westminster Hall where they have their businesses. Mrs. Howlett has done her best to keep Pepys away from Betty for years. After the Mitchell Jrs. married, and opened The Old Swan, Mrs. Howlett was effectively out of the picture.
John G • Link
I think that Sam's exploits are rather mild from what I have observed over the years here in Australia. When I started work many many years ago my senior used to inform me of all the 'goings on' in his street. If I had visited the area, I could have recited the preferences of each house I passed and who was hopping over whose fence to visit regularly.
Then there were the office 'hookups'.
Then there were the various exploits during university student years, after which many became faculty members and carried on ad lib with their students.
All very normal!
San Diego Sarah • Link
Thank you, John G. I don't think these are just Australian temptations. The side effect of the Me Too movement has made us very judgmental of much of the behavior you mention. (I remember similar things going on in New York and London in the 1960s and 1970s as well.)
In the 16th century "until death us do part" was added to marriage vows. Since wives on average died in the first 7 years of marriage, it wasn't that restrictive.
Now we all have the possibility of living to 90, from time to time the vow probably takes some conscious dedication and commitment in every marriage. I know it did for me. And judging from the divorce rates around the world, I'm guessing not everyone keeps that vow these days.
I think we all need to teach our children the importance of conscious consent, of age appropriateness, and the temptation of people with power taking advantage of people in their employ and the young, etc. If you betray someone's trust, expect retaliation. The secret is to play consciously and openly with your equals.
Consequently I am not outraged by the Bagwell situation, nor Betty and Doll Lane events. They were of age, everything was aware of what they were doing and why. But we know Elizabeth was hurt because Pepys wasn't take care of her. He must know her retribution will be delivered in due time; pearl necklaces and cuffs only go so far.
Nicolas • Link
Elizabeth as we know was soon to die. Samuel actually loved her, as the diary shows. He lived another thirty-some years afterward. He might’ve bitterly regretted his past behavior in these latter years.