Terry Foreman on 14 Dec 2010  •  Link

Written from: Dublin - 14 December 1667

Ormond to Arlington

States his reasons for desiring to have the King's leave to pass into England and for thinking that, upon obtaining it, it may be better to waive at this time the authority he has, by his Commission, to appoint a Deputy. ...
_____

Copy of a Letter from the Duke of Ormond, to the King, desiring his Majesty's license to pass into England

http://www.rsl.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwm…

Terry Foreman on 15 Dec 2010  •  Link

See the Journal of In the House of Commons today for items of interest, i.a.:

Prize Ships.

The Bill for encouraging of Trade, by making Prize Ships free Ships of Trade, was read the Second time.

Resolved, &c. That the said Bill be committed to Sir Phillip Warwick, Sir Wm. Thompson, Sir Humfry Winch, Mr. Crouch, Mr. Coventry, Sir Tho. Higgins, Sir Tho. Clergis, Sir Walter Young, Sir Jo. Knight, Mr. Love, Mr. Steward, Col. Reames, Sir Jo. Berkenhead, Sir Jo. Fredericke, Sir Cha. Wheeler, Sir Edm. Walpoole, Mr. Morrice, Sir Fretchvile Hollis, Sir Tho. Littleton, Col. Sandys, Lord Richardson, Sir John Shaw, Sir Jo. Brampston, Sir Henry Capell, Sir Lanc. Lake, Sir Anth. Irby, Sir Tho. Bludworth, Mr. Cheyne, Sir Edm. Wyndham, Sir Jo. Denham, Col. Birch, Sir George Downing, Mr. Jones, and all the Members that serve for the Out-ports: And they have Power to receive and consider of Proposals for bringing down the Prices of Timber; and for regulating the making of Brick for the rebuilding the City of London: And they are to meet on Monday next, at Two of the Clock in the Afternoon, in the inner Court of Wards; and to have Power to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…

cum salis grano on 15 Dec 2010  •  Link

some more info on whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine in the game of war on the hi seas.
http://wapedia.mobi/en/War_prize

Robert Gertz on 15 Dec 2010  •  Link

"Ah, Pepys. My 200Ls? Excellent and just in time, for I'm off with my good friend..." Sam turns from Hinchingbroke to observe said good friend...Hard-eyed, dissolute about the lips, well-favored young fellow in fancy dress with all the earmarks of a professional gambler and rogue... "To the most notorious gaming and wenching house in London. There we are, we are flush now, Jack."

"Many thanks, friend Pepys." Jack, cool smile, pocketing the 200Ls as Sam stares.

"Hope you'll be good for another shortly, old fellow..." Hinchingbroke notes casually. "That's likely to go the way of its fellows this evening."

Arrgghh...!!!

"Sam'l? Sam'l, you were screaming to wake the dead. What's the matter, dear? Mon Dieu, it must have been a terrible dream, love."

"Just terrible, Bess. Terrible." Sam, shaking.

Terry Foreman on 20 Nov 2016  •  Link

"Mr. Moore come to me to discourse about the 200l. I must supply my Lord Hinchingbroke, and I promised him to do it, though much against my will."

So, Mr. Henry Moore is a collection agent for Lord Sandwich, the indulgent father, who leans on Pepys for a short-term (?) loan -- because he can -- to cover a £200 debt incurred by his son, Edward Hinchingbrooke, who'd first asked Pepys for this favor --- which was declined -- five days ago: http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

We do not learn how or why the debt was incurred: was Edward as much a spendthrift as he'd been when "studying" in France? Nor do we learn how it came about that yesterday's diary entry ends: "so to supper and to bed, troubled with my parting with the 200l., which I must lend my Lord Sandwich to answer his bill of exchange." http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

San Diego Sarah on 15 Dec 2020  •  Link

"The Petition, intituled, The humble Petition of Philadelphia Lady Wentworth, in the Behalf of the Lady Henrietta Maria her Daughter; who is Daughter and Heir of Thomas Lord Wentworth, and Grandchild and Heir of Thomas Earl of Cleveland; was also read."

Now there's a name to remember. The Duke of Monmouth would like to make sure her inheritance is safe (which I'm guessing is the purpose of this petition).

San Diego Sarah on 15 Dec 2020  •  Link

The Salty One's annotation looks interesting. The link is dead. I Googled for sea battles in December 1667 with no results. Ideas, anyone?

San Diego Sarah on 15 Dec 2020  •  Link

"So, Mr. Henry Moore is a collection agent for Lord Sandwich, the indulgent father, who leans on Pepys for a short-term (?) loan -- because he can -- to cover a £200 debt incurred by his son, Edward Hinchingbrooke, who'd first asked Pepys for this favor --- which was declined -- five days ago: ..."

Yes, Pepys had decided to teach Edward a lesson about frugality, Terry.

What I think is going on:
Mr. Moore lives and works at Hinchingbrooke with Lady Sandwich, who is in financial straights. She asked Pepys to hold some silver plate, guessing he'd use it as surety coming up with the cash. Bear in mind Quarter Day is Dec. 25 so a lot of money is about to change hands, and if Edward defaults, it will be a scandal.

Mr. Moore must be in town getting things ready for next month's nuptials between Edward Montagu, Viscount Hinchingbrooke who is engaged to Lady Mary Anne Boyle, daughter of Richard Boyle, 2nd Earl of Cork and 1st Earl of Burlington, and he's living with his prospective in-laws in luxury at Burlington House (next door to the ill-fated Clarendon House).

Lord Sandwich is playing Ambassador to Spain, and getting ready to go to Portugal, and he's in financial straights. He sent over a Bill of Exchange saying "I'm good for this ... but get cash from (fill in the blank)" to Edward, who is working with Mr. Moore on the fundraising.

Anne Boyle and Edward Montagu will wed in January 1667/68.

Richard Boyle (referred to as Lord Burlington) was one of Charles II's financiers, and therefore Edward is probably finding it expensive "keeping up with the Joneses-in-law."

Cutting off the bridegroom seems a little harsh, Pepys. Consider it a wedding present.

Gerald Berg on 15 Dec 2020  •  Link

It has been awhile since Sam gloated over how much money he has saved. Maybe since the Medway bury my gold panic and its various comedic outcomes? Anyways, upward of 5000£ I believe was the tally. 200£ seems small change for keeping a family of aristocrats happy. How about a tithe to ailing Liz while at it?

JB on 15 Dec 2020  •  Link

@San Diego Sarah
"The Salty One's annotation looks interesting. The link is dead. I Googled for sea battles in December 1667 with no results. Ideas, anyone?"

Apparently wapedia was a mobile version of Wikipedia from 2004 - 2013. “War Prize” on Wikipedia redirects to “Prize of War”. Interestingly, it notes, "This term was used nearly exclusively in terms of captured ships during the 18th and 19th centuries”, and has links at the bottom to lists of ships captured in those centuries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pri…

Looking for a similar list for the 17th century yielded a bunch of other links, the closest being only a list of shipwrecks.

So, I looked for the Pepys term of “prize-goods” instead, which brought me to “Prize money”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pri…

It discusses the 16th and 17th century formulation of international law in this regard, with particular bits on England to 1701, the Anglo-Dutch wars, Great Britain 1707-1801, and so on. There are mentions of some notable awards, but nothing specific to 1667.

My guess is that CSG was aiming at the general rules of the awarding anyway, and the article is full of that. It was a fun search!

San Diego Sarah on 16 Dec 2020  •  Link

Thank you, JB. I would never have figured all of that out.

Terry Foreman on 16 Dec 2020  •  Link

Nice to see a tribute to the Late Michael Vincent.

San Diego Sarah on 17 Dec 2020  •  Link

Terry, did you ever find out what happened to the Salty One? I've searched for a local obit. and found nothing, but I recall he worked for a British museum or encyclopedia company, and they may be able to tell us more. I am sad to have lost our Latin scholar.