Tuesday 27 October 1668
[Continued from yesterday. P.G.] …in the morning up, but my mind troubled for the poor girle, with whom I could not get opportunity to speak, but to the office, my mind mighty full of sorrow for her, where all the morning, and to dinner with my people, and to the office all the afternoon, and so at night home, and there busy to get some things ready against to-morrow’s meeting of Tangier, and that being done, and my clerks gone, my wife did towards bedtime begin to be in a mighty rage from some new matter that she had got in her head, and did most part of the night in bed rant at me in most high terms of threats of publishing my shame, and when I offered to rise would have rose too, and caused a candle to be light to burn by her all night in the chimney while she ranted, while the knowing myself to have given some grounds for it, did make it my business to appease her all I could possibly, and by good words and fair promises did make her very quiet, and so rested all night, and… [Continued tomorrow. P.G.]
30 Annotations
First Reading
Robert Gertz • Link
Curious that Bess doesn't express any wish to sleep elsewhere, despite ample guestrooms...She seems determined to duke it out once and for all.
"...while the knowing myself to have given some grounds for it..." Some, perhaps...Though lets not go overboard, eh?...
Yet to be fair, he avoided the ultimate disaster of getting Deb pregnant (if possible for our boy)...So far...And as I noted yesterday he picked a woman not really a threat to Bess. Almost as if unconsciously he sought to choose a girl who wouldn't constitute a situation that he couldn't hope to get out of easily with a messy dismissal at worst...Say with Knepp.
Of course he probably should avoid Bath in future.
"He's gone and done what to our beloved Deb?!!"
Jenny • Link
Deb may not be a threat socially but she has become part of the family. Treats, outings, holidays, theatre, shopping, she's always there. A friend, companion and surrogate daughter.
A double betrayal.
I know I've been taken to task for modern experience colouring my entries but, to me, it is not all surprising that Elizabeth has not moved to another room.
Robert Gertz • Link
I think the modern experience certainly won't differ much in the fundamentals. What interested me was Bess' instinctive response here not to disengage in horror but to close in and fight it out. It is a betrayal of the family circle, a loving wife who's put up with considerable grief, and a shy young girl's trust in a surrogate father but in terms of future consequences Deb is someone easier for Bess to deal with...A Knepp or Pierce, even a Mercer, would be a totally different matter. I wonder if Bess' behavior to Mercer is an interesting clue...When she seemed a possible threat Bess did much to try to "slap her down" and reinforce the servant status. Later, when it was clear Sam enjoyed her company but had no serious interest and she was out of the house, Bess relaxed and accepted her as something of a friend...Though of course we have only Sam's view of the improved relationship, it does seen unlike Bess would go about with Mary on their own if she continued to resent her. A tribute of course also to Mary Mercer's remarkable concilatory skills and (I think likely) a very warm and lovable personality.
john • Link
Was Samuel a typical man of his time and status or was he a rake? If such abominable behaviour was typical, perhaps even expected, it paints matters differently.
Nate • Link
Was this behavior typical? I think it was, to some extent. Marriages were arranged and the man was king in his own house. The age of consent was 12 but ...
See this:
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/teaching-…
languagehat • Link
"Was Samuel a typical man of his time and status or was he a rake?"
It's impossible to know, of course. While we can take for granted that the standard of behavior was very different back then, and (probably) that the level of outrage at his behavior, had it been publicized, would have been much less than a similar revelation would occasion today, I'm guessing that even for his time his behavior is at the far end of the scale. The term "obsessive" seems to apply clearly to his need to grope women, and I find it impossible to imagine that a large number of men behaved that way on such a regular basis, even if they could get away with it far more easily than is possible today.
Kate Bunting • Link
Adrian Tinniswood, in his book "The Verneys", tells how Ralph Verney, in exile in France during the Civil War and with his beloved wife mortally ill, asked his uncle in London to recruit an English maidservant for them. Uncle's reply assumed that Ralph would be having sexual relations with the girl. The author wonders; was it just a crude masculine joke, or was such behaviour really considered normal at that time?
A. De Araujo • Link
"was Samuel a typical man"?
Methinks yes cf Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings a century later;of course it applies only if you could afford to have servants or slaves;I myself have several black 1st cousins because my grandfather in Brazil was like that;nowadays is totally different.
Jenny • Link
On the subject of whether Sam's behaviour was typical, I have also been following the very interesting Ralph Josselin diary and the records which go with it. It has been fascinating to see the difference between the punishment for and upholding of country morals during the same time period.
The Church in the country came down like a ton of bricks on those who didn't follow the moral code of the time. The records of excommunications and "purging under the hands of neighbours" for such things as impregnating your wife before you were married make incredible reading. Not that it made any difference to the actual people - they were all still at it like rabbits!
Ralph is a pious and faithful husband but even he says "came home and found my maid was dead". Not mentioned by name, not mentioned that he performed the burial service.
languagehat • Link
"Methinks yes cf Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings a century later"
I guess it depends what we're talking about. If it's just a matter of molesting the hired help, yes, that's absolutely typical in any situation where there is power without accountability. I was responding in the larger context of Sam's (apparently) obsessive need to be molesting any woman he's attracted to and feels he can get away with molesting. I mean, he very frequently goes out of his way to do so, and reports on his disappointment when he went to some shop and discovered his intended victim was not there. That's not normal for our time and I don't think it was normal for his; I suspect the (pointless, in a practical sense) insertion of Romance vocabulary in his reports on such activities is a signal of whatever psychological stuff is going on there. It may be that he couldn't help himself, and I'm not saying he's a Bad Person, but in our time he'd be getting much-needed counseling.
AnnieC • Link
Yes indeed, languagehat. One notices that Sam would rather have a furtive fumble than a normal sexual encounter with one of the accommodating ladies he knows.
cgs • Link
Re: Man and his lower brain.
This period of time is repete with every variation of moral behavior, Samuel's version of behavior is one many versions .
In nature, take the swan and gander they have differing standards.
Each human follows his own particular code, each to his own be the correct one.
Ian Greenwood • Link
In talking of sexual matters it is very difficult to claim that such and such behaviour is not 'normal for our time'. How can we know what is not normal for our time? In our social circle, perhaps; referring to oneself, more probably. But our society is so fragmented that my neighbours do not know what I do, and I do not know what they do. The norm is that we do not pry, nor think it very much worth knowing - unless, of course, we have adopted the mindset of the gutter press.
Pepys' description of his wife's reaction to this episode strikes me as all too sadly familiar, all too emotion-wrenchingly realistic.
I presume the full extent of Pepys' circumlocutions, paraphrases and euphemisms has been laid bare by now? His macaronic language is easily understood, but what of vaguer phrases like 'did what I would' and so forth? I find myself looking for suspicious phrases every time he wanders between the City and Whitehall!
languagehat • Link
"In talking of sexual matters it is very difficult to claim that such and such behaviour is not ‘normal for our time’. How can we know what is not normal for our time?"
Oh, come now. If you aren't aware that groping women is considered beyond the pale these days, I don't know what to tell you. Obviously it happens; pretty much everything happens at all times. But (Western) society has come to a collective decision, with much foot-dragging, that it will no longer laugh off "boys will be boys" behavior that involves molesting women. In Pepys' time (and until much more recently), it did. Surely this does not require learned footnotes.
jeannine • Link
Another thought to ponder as Elizabeth expresses her pain... most of the marriages at the time were probably arranged. What set this marriage apart was that it was 'for love'. I am sure that the sting of the betrayal goes quite deep for Elizabeth. If she had married as part of an arrangement then her expecations for the marriage could have been different and made this a less painful discovery.
Jenny • Link
"But (Western) society has come to a collective decision, with much foot-dragging, that it will no longer laugh off “boys will be boys” behavior that involves molesting women."
Really? I don't know which rarified bubble you live in. Sexual harassment policies in workplaces are laughed at as being "political correctness gone mad" and women are told "not make a fuss" or "you must have encouraged it" when they report gropings and inappropriate behaviour.
languagehat • Link
I live in the rarified bubble known as the US of A. Every place I've worked for the last couple of decades has been absolutely intolerant of sexual harassment, and that has been the experience of people I know as well. I'm sure there are still plenty of benighted workplaces -- these things always take time -- but if you think there's been no change over the last few decades, again, I don’t know what to tell you. I understand bitterness at the slow pace of progress, but that doesn't justify ignoring progress altogether.
Second Reading
Autumnbreeze Movies • Link
Also in Australia people are legally and effectively protected against sexual harassment, and well aware of the very unpleasant consequences of such behaviour. On the other hand, in Italy, for example, law is one thing and machismo behaviours are often another. Could it be that in the 'old' countries, where attitudes continued for millennia in unbroken flow, it is more difficult to change behaviour, especially when custom is fused with natural inclination?
Terry Foreman • Link
"caused a candle to be lit [not 'light'] to burn by her all night" -- so L&M.
psw • Link
From 2018 Feb, these prurient inspired thoughts seem pretty funny...or naive.? Plus ca change...
Not that I be better... I more agree with the Old Salty one.
Liz • Link
‘when I offered to rise would have rose too, and caused a candle to be light to burn by her all night in the chimney while she ranted,’
Probably overthinking this, but what was so special about this particular ‘appeasing’ act that warranted mentioning?
San Diego Sarah • Link
'Entry Book: October 1668', in Calendar of Treasury Books, Volume 2, 1667-1668, ed. William A Shaw (London, 1905), pp. 623-630. British History Online
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…
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Oct. 27 1668
The Treasury Lords to the Warden, &c., of the Mint.
By your certificate of the 15th inst. it appears that not above 2,500/. has been coined in shillings since Aug. 28 last,
and no sixpences or other smaller money.
Until further order you are to coin no silver coins greater than shillings
and you are to get your stamps ready for coining sixpences and other smaller coins.
Treasury Miscellanea Warrants Early XXXIII. p. 79.
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This confirms Stephane's point of
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
San Diego Sarah • Link
'Calendar of State Papers Colonial, America and West Indies: Volume 5, 1661-1668, ed. W Noel Sainsbury (London, 1880), pp. 615-622. British History Online
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…
October 1668
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Oct. 17-28. 1668
Barbados
#1856. Minutes of the Council of Barbados.
[SEE https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… FOR THE FIRST PART OF THE ENTRY]
Oct. 27, 28. — The Assembly very ready to perform the proposal made to Sir Tobias Bridge in England of 300/. per annum, and desire the Governor to employ him to the best advantage for the safety of this island.
Letters communicated by the Governor from his son Henry with ill news from the Leeward Isles, and that he intended to send the rest of Sir Tobias Bridge's regiment thither and Sir Tobias himself.
The Assembly do not consent to Sir Tobias' departure.
The Governor requests them to reconsider same, and also about fortifying St. Michael's with a regular fortification.
They waived the question of fortification till the Grand Committee for fortification should make their report, and at length consented to Sir Tobias going for six weeks or two months,
but do not think fit he should receive the salary promised, and will present him with 100/. gratuity.
4-½ pp. [Col. Entry Bk., No. XI., pp. 173-177.]
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William, Lord WILLOUGHBY, 6th Baron of Parham MP (1616 – 1673), Gov. Barbados (1666 – 1673)
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Tobias Bridge fought for Parliament in the English Civil Wars, served the Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell during the Interregnum, and after the Restoration he served Charles II.
A year after he was knighted in 1666, Col. Sir Tobias Bridge was sent to Barbados with his regiment. In 1672 he commanded the local land forces against Tobago in one of the many wars over that island. In 1674 he was admitted to the council of Barbados.
He probably died in Bridgetown, the capital of Barbados which was named after him, but no record has been found of the date.
https://www.oxforddnb.com/view/10… (you need a subscription)
San Diego Sarah • Link
1668? Oct. 27.
St. Jago de la Vega. Jamaica
#1861. Minutes of the Council of Jamaica.
Ordered that Wm. Warran ride the wooden horse in the Parade Place of St. Jago de la Vega for one hour, with three muskets at each heel and a paper on his back with his crime written upon it, for slighting an order of his Majesty's Council and giving his superior officer base language at the head of the troop.
Petition of Edmund Duck, James Kendall, George Elkin, Augustine Evans, and Geo. Hambury on behalf of themselves and many inhabitants of this island to the Governor and Council
that an expedient be found to prevent the mischiefs to their plantations by the drowning of their lands through the negligence of persons felling wood and trees and willfully casting them into the river Cobre;
with Answer recommending it to the petitioners as the only way to prevent further damages to join their strength together and open the mouth of the channel, and to this purpose to rate every man that lives on said river proportionable to bear the charge;
and in case obstinate persons refuse to give reasonable assistance the Governor and Council, on application, will give fitting power therein.
N.B.—These minutes are dated 27 Oct. 1669, but "the last Tuesday in October next" to which the Council was adjourned on 28 Junely (sic) 1668 was the 27 Oct. 1668, and not 1669.
See ante, No. 1810.
3 pp. [Col. Entry Bk., No. XXXIV., pp. 183-186.]
San Diego Sarah • Link
The volume of Domestic State Papers covering correspondence from Oct. 1668 to Dec. 1669 is at
https://play.google.com/books/rea…
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October 27, 1668
Dr. Thos. Willis to Williamson.
John Greenriff of Wales was high sheriff for Glamorganshire 4 years ago,
and is threatened to be returned sheriff of Monmouthshire,
although he has not 100/. a year in this county, and not above 400/. in the other.
If he is returned, get him off, if it be in your power; he will not be unthankful.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II 248, No. 83.]
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Oct. 27 1668.
Dr. [Leoline] Jenkins to Williamson.
I send my opinion on the question as to how far treaties between princes should lose their force, where succeeding ones do not ratify them.
1. In private contracts, the last is always the binding one.
2. They are to be interpreted according to the strictness of the letter, to avoid cavils, and then those have only themselves to blame, who have omitted provisions to their own advantage.
3. They do not ratify former treaties by implication, only by express declaration, because they are to be looked upon as the prince's second thoughts; and the subject, to whom they are law, should not be under the uncertainty of two laws about the same thing.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 84.]
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Oct. 27 1668.
Whitehall
Petition of Peter Ricaut to the King,
for a grant by privy seal of such moneys as remain due to his Majesty
upon the account of Sir Simon Every and Sir John Curson, Receivers-General of the Duchy of Lancaster,
being received in the time of the late wars, and not paid to any of the usurped powers.
His Majesty declared, on a former petition,
that he would grant such sums as should remain due to him upon Sir Simon Every's account,
but the petitioner finds that Sir John Curson was joined in the grant with Sir Simon, and executed the office of Receiver-General during the wars, after Sir Simon's death.
With reference thereon to Sir Thos. Ingram, Chancellor of the Duchy.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 86.]
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Oct. 27 1668.
Warrant to John Wilson
to seize Rich. Royston, bookseller, and bring him before Lord Arlington.
Minute. [S.P. Dom., Entry Book 30, f. 68.]
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Oct. 27 1668.
Warrant to John Wilson, messenger,
to apprehend John Wright, bookseller.
[S.P. Dom., Entry Book 30, f. 68.]
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Oct. 27 1668.
Warrant to John Wilson to apprehend [John] Wickham, messenger.
[S.P. Dom., Entry Book 30, f. 68.]
San Diego Sarah • Link
Oct. ? 1668
Petition of John Wickham, messenger of the chamber in ordinary,
to Lord Arlington.
I seized, along with Mr. Mearne and others of the Stationers' Company, a private printing press in Southwark, belonging to Mrs. Calvert, and several reams of an unlicensed book which were brought to the messengers' chamber in Whitehall.
I refused Mearne's request to return them to Mrs. Calvert,
but at length I allowed Mr. Royston, warden of the company, who had Sec. Morice's warrant for seizing all unlicensed books, to carry them to their hall, and received 50/. from him, as I thought for my trouble.
I am sorry for my offence in delivering up the said papers, but did not sell them, as was asserted.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II, 248, No 88.]
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Oct. 27 1668.
Newark
Wm. Browne, Mayor, and the 12 aldermen of Newark, to Lord Arlington.
The town has been destitute of a vicar since Whitsun tide, and many
indigent persons have been put to very great exigences to procure parsons to baptize their children, and bury their dead.
We have tired our neighbours, and soon may not be able to get it done at all.
We beg that we may not long rest under this great want,
and that if no one be presented,
you will assist us in offering one [Mr. Smith] to his Majesty, whose fidelity to his prince, charity to his neighbour, and zeal for religion, make him preferable to others.
[12 signatures. S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 87.]
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Annexing,
Reasons by Herbert, Bishop of Hereford, why Mr. Smith should not be suddenly presented to Newark:
1. I am informed that, though the Mayor and some others desire him, the greater part of the town desire Mr. Babbington.
2. Mr. Smith has another living, and I am not sure whether he intends to leave it and reside in Newark, which will be requisite in so populous a town.
3. I have received no testimonials of his sobriety, industry, right principles in religion, and loyalty.
4. I know nothing of his abilities in learning, and though he may preach plausibly to a popular auditory, yet it is requisite in such a town, that he be of learning sufficient to confute the sectaries there, and not by ignorance expose the Church to contempt.
Though his Majesty be pleased for the town to recommend a person for the cure, yet to admit any person into a corporate town, without an inspection into these things, may be a precedent of dangerous consequence.
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Endorsed with a note that the bishop, being satisfied by a letter from the Mayor and aldermen, gave leave for Mr. Smith's presentation to pass.
[S.P. Dom., Cur. II. 248, No. 871.]
San Diego Sarah • Link
Oct. 27 1668.
Portsmouth
Capt. Ant. Deane to the Navy Commissioners.
The timber will not go down until the spring [tide], unless the King will pay for the bark,
so that it is time enough to take care for the payment, if they resolve to have it on the terms proposed;
whatever shifts are made for money, those bargains must not be let go, or they will be still more tied to Mr. Cole.
Prays that the supply demanded may be sent, and also some deals, or the works of the new ship must stand still;
has had to cut spruce deals, when the service required despatch.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 92.]
LKvM • Link
"Was Samuel a typical man of his time and status or was he a rake?"
I believe he was typical precisely BECAUSE he was a rake.
But not all men were. For example, his contemporary Isaac Newton died a virgin.
Tonyel • Link
I was, and remain, intrigued by many annotators insistence on comparing modern morals only from a white, western viewpoint. A great many countries still operate as we did 300 years ago. A brief example (true story):
A security guard at one of the larger London hotels was called to quell a noisy argument between a Saudi guest and a sex worker he had brought to his room. While there, he noticed a figure in the second bed and asked who it was. The man said, dismissively "Oh, just my mother."
Clark Kent • Link
On the subject of the relations of employers and employees today, somebody has to bring up Bill and Monica, and his response to her complaint that she was not getting sufficient access to our busy President: "Every day can't be sunshine, Sweetheart." These sorts of behavior continue and, one suspects, are often a two-way street. Perhaps his words would make a suitable epitaph for that healthy Southern boy when the time comes.