It appears to me that Sam is saying, "She may be a slattern, but it hardly matters given her beauty." He seems inordinately fond of beauty and it apparently forgives everything. I wish he had given some examples of her slatternliness. Traces of dust on top of the picture frames?
I can't get my head around the experiment on the dog. "the dogg did presently fall asleep, and so lay till we cut him up, and a little dogg also, which they put it down his throate". What is that supposed to mean? What did they put down whose throat? And to what end? I realize this is the 17th Century, but Sam seems particularly immune to cruelty to dogs, which must have been loved pets even then.
"A joiner is an artisan who builds things by joining pieces of wood, particularly lighter and more ornamental work than that done by a carpenter, including furniture and the "fittings" of a house, ship, etc. . . . . A joiner usually produces items such as interior and exterior doors, windows, stairs, tables, bookshelves, cabinets, furniture, etc. In shipbuilding a marine joiner may work with materials other than wood . . .
"The terms joinery and joiner are used in the UK, and the main trade union for American carpenters still calls itself the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J…
A joiner is also a piece of machinery that creates woodworking joints. Of course, in Pepys' time there was no such machinery and all joinery was done by hand,
I am having work done in my house, including the buildiing of closets and the renovation of stairs, so I understand very well what Pepys meant when he wrote, "So at night with my head full of the business of my closet . . . strange it is to think how building do fill my mind and put out all other things out of my thoughts."
“All human history attests That happiness for man, - the hungry sinner! - Since Eve ate apples, much depends on dinner. ~Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto XIII, stanza 99”
Australian Susan asked about Alms Houses "Anyone know if these exist in Deptford still?"
Perhaps you have discovered them by now, 10 years after asking the question, Susan. If not there are many listed in Debtford on various websites on the Internet. It isn't clear to me if any are still standing.
And down South, and something my parents always said, "up home" even though "home" (where their parents lived) was not up but west on the same latitude. This was in the US. My relatives in Pennsylvania used to say they were going ."out" to New Jersey, where we lived.
I suspect that Sam has some person or persons in mind, perhaps unborn, someone "out there" to whom he is directing his writing, perhaps a son or daughter, or anyone who might come across his writings after his own demise--someone who might be interested in knowing what life was like in 17th Century London. I doubt he thought all of us would be reading his writing 500 years later, but it's not hard to believe he wanted his writing to be read by someone, so he was addressing that unknown entity. I remember when I wrote a diary, I always thought of some unknown person, perhaps a descendant in another century reading it, so I wrote to that person, assuming that he or she would need some things explained. I'd wager that the Rev. Josselin did, too. A little like acting to an empty house. You can't help hoping someone is listening.
Maids who were "Jills of all trades" and could handle most household chores were called maids of all work, at least in subsequent centuries. They went where they were needed and didn't specialize.
"but, in spite of his fears, she died a Protestant"
[SPOILER--for anyone who doesn't know of the timing of Elizabeth's death.]
Elizabeth didn't have a lot of time to decide whether to become a Catholic. She died unexpectedly at a young age. She may well have planned to become a Catholic before she died, but didn't have the opportunity.
LHayes. "[H]aving a good hen, with eggs, to dinner, with great content." Anyone else, on first reading this, imagine a happy hen and her eggs sitting down to dinner with Sam and Elizabeth?"
I had the same thought. I also wonder if eating hen and eggs would be considered not kosher, like eating meat and dairy. But I suspect Sam wouldn't know anything about that.
Dan Jenkins writes of private cemeteries. In a small town in a churchyard in Pennsylvania where many of my ancestors are buried, there is at least one private family cemetery within the churchyard, with a short wall around it. I have seen similar ones in various other cemeteries.
Thanks to Glynn for the information about "burnt wine". I couldn't wrap my head around that one.
It seems so strange to us in the 21st century that young otherwise healthy person could die for no known reason. I wonder if there is a doctor on this blog who could offer an opinion as to what killed Tom. There could be no modern post mortem, either. But surely Tom's symptoms could point to something considering our understanding of modern medicine. Other well known historical figures have been diagnosed in retrospect--Charlotte Bronte and Mozart being two examples.
To "call" in England means to visit--hence calling cards. Many an unaware American in England has been surprised--or shocked--to find someone ringing his doorbell unexpectedly after someone said he'd call. If it's telephone contact he's referring to a modern day Brit would say he'll "ring" you. I assume that "calling" in Pepys' time, as it does today, meant coming to someone's home, in this case for Pepys to "collect" his wife at Mrs. Hunt's where he had "set" her earlier.
Andrew Hamilton wrote: "Is anyone else struck by the fashion in the days of Charles II of putting one's name on some remote place? There's Pennsylvania, Charleston (S.C.), where the Ashley and Cooper Rivers flow together to form the Atlantic Ocean, as we all learned as children, Digby Nova Scotia, Carteret, New Jersey, and of course New York, then Fairfax, Va., lots of Virginia counties, and, of course, Sandwich, Massachusetts. Alas Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. is not named for Lord Lauderdale, but it may be named for a descendant. Nowadays the proprietors of all this real estate would command large premiums for such naming rights. I guess the Indians didn't have good agents."
People were perhaps less mercenary and more ethical then. This is from Wikipedia
Vice Admiral Sir George Carteret, 1st Baronet (c.1610—18 January 1680 N.S.), son of Elias de Carteret, was a royalist statesman in Jersey and England, who served in the Clarendon Ministry as Treasurer of the Navy. He was also one of the original Lords Proprietor of the former British colony of Carolina and New Jersey. Carteret, New Jersey, as well as Carteret County, North Carolina, both in the United States, are named after him.
Oliver Mundy on 12 Aug 2016 Guy de la Bedoyère ('The Letters of Samuel Pepys', Boydell, Woodbridge, 2006: ISBN 184383197X) identifies her as Judith (née Campion), citing a record of the marriage of this woman and a William Bagwell in 1658.
"I liked the woman very well and stroked her under the chin". . .
Plenty of territory under the chin.
"One of the most notorious aphrodisiacs, oysters are high in zinc and have a reputation for being great for love and fertility. Researchers recently found that oysters contain amino acids that trigger production of sex hormones." Wikipedia.
Comments
Second Reading
About Monday 16 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
It appears to me that Sam is saying, "She may be a slattern, but it hardly matters given her beauty." He seems inordinately fond of beauty and it apparently forgives everything. I wish he had given some examples of her slatternliness. Traces of dust on top of the picture frames?
I can't get my head around the experiment on the dog. "the dogg did presently fall asleep, and so lay till we cut him up, and a little dogg also, which they put it down his throate". What is that supposed to mean? What did they put down whose throat? And to what end? I realize this is the 17th Century, but Sam seems particularly immune to cruelty to dogs, which must have been loved pets even then.
About Monday 9 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
". . . after dinner in Sir W. Pen’s coach he set my wife and I down at the New Exchange . . . "
Hmm, it looks as if pronoun errors are not new.
About Friday 6 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
"A joiner is an artisan who builds things by joining pieces of wood, particularly lighter and more ornamental work than that done by a carpenter, including furniture and the "fittings" of a house, ship, etc. . . . . A joiner usually produces items such as interior and exterior doors, windows, stairs, tables, bookshelves, cabinets, furniture, etc. In shipbuilding a marine joiner may work with materials other than wood . . .
"The terms joinery and joiner are used in the UK, and the main trade union for American carpenters still calls itself the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J…
A joiner is also a piece of machinery that creates woodworking joints. Of course, in Pepys' time there was no such machinery and all joinery was done by hand,
I am having work done in my house, including the buildiing of closets and the renovation of stairs, so I understand very well what Pepys meant when he wrote, "So at night with my head full of the business of my closet . . . strange it is to think how building do fill my mind and put out all other things out of my thoughts."
About Thursday 28 April 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
“All human history attests
That happiness for man, - the hungry sinner! -
Since Eve ate apples, much depends on dinner.
~Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto XIII, stanza 99”
And bed, then as now.
About Friday 8 April 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
Australian Susan asked about Alms Houses
"Anyone know if these exist in Deptford still?"
Perhaps you have discovered them by now, 10 years after asking the question, Susan. If not there are many listed in Debtford on various websites on the Internet. It isn't clear to me if any are still standing.
https://trinityhousehistory.wordp…
But there are many almshouses across England still standing and in use as houses.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L….
I've seen the ones in Appleby (Cumbria) and in Watford (Hertfordshire).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L…
About Sunday 3 April 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
David G.
And down South, and something my parents always said, "up home" even though "home" (where their parents lived) was not up but west on the same latitude. This was in the US. My relatives in Pennsylvania used to say they were going ."out" to New Jersey, where we lived.
About Sunday 27 March 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
San Diego Sarah, Your explanation makes a lot of sense.
About Sunday 27 March 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
I suspect that Sam has some person or persons in mind, perhaps unborn, someone "out there" to whom he is directing his writing, perhaps a son or daughter, or anyone who might come across his writings after his own demise--someone who might be interested in knowing what life was like in 17th Century London. I doubt he thought all of us would be reading his writing 500 years later, but it's not hard to believe he wanted his writing to be read by someone, so he was addressing that unknown entity. I remember when I wrote a diary, I always thought of some unknown person, perhaps a descendant in another century reading it, so I wrote to that person, assuming that he or she would need some things explained. I'd wager that the Rev. Josselin did, too. A little like acting to an empty house. You can't help hoping someone is listening.
Maids who were "Jills of all trades" and could handle most household chores were called maids of all work, at least in subsequent centuries. They went where they were needed and didn't specialize.
About Tuesday 22 March 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
Sean wrote:
"My God. I can't believe Pepys was turned on by seeing dogs do it."
But he didn't see them do it, according to the passage. He must have been turned on just by the thought of it, which is even creepier!
About Sunday 20 March 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
Pedro:
"but, in spite of his fears, she died a Protestant"
[SPOILER--for anyone who doesn't know of the timing of Elizabeth's death.]
Elizabeth didn't have a lot of time to decide whether to become a Catholic. She died unexpectedly at a young age. She may well have planned to become a Catholic before she died, but didn't have the opportunity.
About Saturday 19 March 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
LHayes. "[H]aving a good hen, with eggs, to dinner, with great content." Anyone else, on first reading this, imagine a happy hen and her eggs sitting down to dinner with Sam and Elizabeth?"
I had the same thought. I also wonder if eating hen and eggs would be considered not kosher, like eating meat and dairy. But I suspect Sam wouldn't know anything about that.
About Friday 18 March 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
Dan Jenkins writes of private cemeteries. In a small town in a churchyard in Pennsylvania where many of my ancestors are buried, there is at least one private family cemetery within the churchyard, with a short wall around it. I have seen similar ones in various other cemeteries.
Thanks to Glynn for the information about "burnt wine". I couldn't wrap my head around that one.
About Tuesday 15 March 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
It seems so strange to us in the 21st century that young otherwise healthy person could die for no known reason. I wonder if there is a doctor on this blog who could offer an opinion as to what killed Tom. There could be no modern post mortem, either. But surely Tom's symptoms could point to something considering our understanding of modern medicine. Other well known historical figures have been diagnosed in retrospect--Charlotte Bronte and Mozart being two examples.
About Thursday 10 March 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
To "call" in England means to visit--hence calling cards. Many an unaware American in England has been surprised--or shocked--to find someone ringing his doorbell unexpectedly after someone said he'd call. If it's telephone contact he's referring to a modern day Brit would say he'll "ring" you. I assume that "calling" in Pepys' time, as it does today, meant coming to someone's home, in this case for Pepys to "collect" his wife at Mrs. Hunt's where he had "set" her earlier.
About Tuesday 8 March 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
Robert Gertz wrote:
"I suppose if you bottled it under a fancy trade name, slapped a $1,300 price per ounce on it, and got Angelina Jolie to splash a bit..."
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
About Wednesday 2 March 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
Andrew Hamilton wrote:
"Is anyone else struck by the fashion in the days of Charles II of putting one's name on some remote place? There's Pennsylvania, Charleston (S.C.), where the Ashley and Cooper Rivers flow together to form the Atlantic Ocean, as we all learned as children, Digby Nova Scotia, Carteret, New Jersey, and of course New York, then Fairfax, Va., lots of Virginia counties, and, of course, Sandwich, Massachusetts. Alas Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. is not named for Lord Lauderdale, but it may be named for a descendant. Nowadays the proprietors of all this real estate would command large premiums for such naming rights. I guess the Indians didn't have good agents."
People were perhaps less mercenary and more ethical then. This is from Wikipedia
Vice Admiral Sir George Carteret, 1st Baronet (c.1610—18 January 1680 N.S.), son of Elias de Carteret, was a royalist statesman in Jersey and England, who served in the Clarendon Ministry as Treasurer of the Navy. He was also one of the original Lords Proprietor of the former British colony of Carolina and New Jersey. Carteret, New Jersey, as well as Carteret County, North Carolina, both in the United States, are named after him.
About Wednesday 2 March 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
Pedro wrote:
"I threatened my future wife that, when reading my vows, I would say "my awful wedded wife". Of course on the day I had to be very very careful."
She could easily have gotten back at you by saying, "my awful wedded husband."
Has the marriage held up?
About Sunday 28 February 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
I wonder how old the boy is. Probably no more than 10. What a time for children! If they're orphaned, hungry and homeless, make use of them.
About Saturday 27 February 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
But here she's called Elizabeth.
http://www.pepysdiary.com/indepth…
About Saturday 27 February 1663/64
Louise Hudson • Link
Mrs. Bagwell, wife of William.
Oliver Mundy on 12 Aug 2016
Guy de la Bedoyère ('The Letters of Samuel Pepys', Boydell, Woodbridge, 2006: ISBN 184383197X) identifies her as Judith (née Campion), citing a record of the marriage of this woman and a William Bagwell in 1658.
"I liked the woman very well and stroked her under the chin". . .
Plenty of territory under the chin.
"One of the most notorious aphrodisiacs, oysters are high in zinc and have a reputation for being great for love and fertility. Researchers recently found that oysters contain amino acids that trigger production of sex hormones." Wikipedia.