"In my way heard Mr. Thomas Fuller preach at the Savoy upon our forgiving of other men’s trespasses, shewing among other things that we are to go to law never to revenge, but only to repayre, which I think a good distinction."
Is the good Dr. Fuller -- a tried and true Royalist his whole life -- criticizing Charles II and/or Parliament for the trials and executions/imprisonment of the Regicides? Also the detention of thousands of Quakers and non conformists following Venner's Rising? If not, it's curious timing for an "in a perfect world" sermon; only 3 days ago they were memorializing the execution of King Charles -- the CofE's only saint. If he is, this could be a contraversial opinion to have, and Pepys has shared with us an of-necessity private opinion.
"... one of the marks of fashion was simply how much material went into your clothes, sending the clear message that you could afford to pay for far more than was functionally necessary."
This may have been the style of clothing Pepys wore, but last year when he first got his appointment, he had 2 outfits made -- one in silk and one in a woolen cloth -- and after some research I found they were both in clerical black. So Pepys was no where near flamboyant in dress, but, yes, it was nevertheless tied together with ribbons (which is why he needs help getting dressed).
"Lots I don't understand -- like where the money comes from and to what extent the monarchy has separate money ... as "they" say, follow the money."
The monarchy is the government. Parliament passes bills, subject to approval by the monarch. But Parliament's real task is to collect taxes and establish a budget. The taxes are delivered to Whitehall Palace and distributed by the Exchequor according to Parliement's approved budget. The Exchequor is located within Whitehall Palace.
Parliament allots an allowance each year to Charles II, which he could not possibly live on this year, so they had to give him more. I suspect that will continue to be the case. We shall see.
"After dinner I was sent for to Sir G. Carteret’s, where he was, and I found the Comptroller, who are upon writing a letter to the Commissioners of Parliament ..."
I wonder why Carteret was involved. He was an honored royalist mariner, yes, and according to his Parliamentary bio, be was "Comptroller of the navy 1641-2," but he has no current role in Navy affairs. He's not even an MP.
Perhaps he was a friend of Slingsby's who went to him for advice on how to handle this hot potato, and using his premises was a way of keeping gossip out of the Navy Board offices.
It also occus to me that "So the Comptroller and I thence to a tavern hard by, and there did agree upon drawing up some letters to be sent to all the pursers and Clerks of the Cheques to make up their accounts" may be a related notation.
If Slingsby/Pepys and Carteret? argued that there was more than enough work on budgets being undertaken by the Navy Board's clerks now, therefore none could be spared, they had to come up with some arduous work for those Clerks to busy with to make the story true.
"He really is starting to become a hub in society isn't he?"
When they moved into Seething Lane, it needed some upgrading, plus they had little furniture. The Pepys have been shopping and upgrading and had the painters in until Christmas. Now it's time to repay some of the hospitality they have enjoyed during the last few months.
As to entertaining movers and shakers -- could they be the often troublesome family group from last year who were ignored recently? We shall see.
"Do 17th century nobilities bury their deads with sumptuous funerary goods?"
Apparently Cromwell's family and "courtiers" thought that's how a everything-but-in-name-a-king was buried. Charles I had a much less ceremonial exit, which Charles II decided not to change although he promoted him as the first and only Anglican saint.
Pauline and Captain Caveman are correct. The "Commissioners" in this case were Members of Parliament assembled for the sole purpose of paying off the Army and Navy and therefore had no servants/clerks assigned for the work.
They all had brief experience in dealing with the sailors and paperwork, but apparently have now discovered it's not as simple as it appeared when they were just helping.
I think Nate Lockwood is right: "My guess is that it's bad enough that he doesn't want to be seen with it in that condition as it certainly won't look ready for use and would imply that he doesn't really know how to use it well. Of course there might also be an event on the horizon that will require him wear it ceremonially."
Pepys probably became aware of the deterioration when he was "invited" to ride all night protecting the good sleeping citizens of London against the Fifth Monarchist rampaging hordes -- and now there is an upcoming ceremony that his brother wishes to come to London for, and who knows what the rabble will get up to then. Can't be seen out with a rusty sword on those occasions! No siree.
L&M: William Symons was a comtemporary of Pepys' in the service of the Commonwealth (as an underclerk at the Council of State). He married shortly after Pepys on 9 July, 1656 at St. Margaret's, Westminster, to Margaret Sherring in a civil ceremony conducted by his uncle, Henry Scobell, a Middlesex J.P. (and clerk to the Commonwealth parliaments).
He lost his place at the Restoration and by 1669 -- no longer such a 'very brave fellow' as Pepys once thought him -- was a clerk employed at the Brooke House Committee. No doubt the fact that he was the nephew of his uncle was of less than no advantage to him in 1660.
Under Henry Scobell's will be inherited the remainder of a lease of a house in Westminster, and -- subject to certain charges -- the manor of Luffnall and Cromer in Norfolk.
I think we can assume it was the Little Gift that took Sandwich's deals to Kings Lynn in February 1660/61.
Interesting that Sandwich bought his wood in France/Flanders/Dutch Republic -- depending on where he delivered the Queen Mother and Minette (I suspect France since they were French Catholics and therefore welcome).
1. go to, live in, or spend time in the country. 2. fashion (masonry) in large blocks with sunk joints and a roughened surface: "the stable block was built of rusticated stone"
Does Cambridge University qualify as "rusticated" -- definition #1? I think several fellows of the Royal Society would challenge you to a duel over that chacterization!
"(Fast day). The first time that this day hath been yet observed: and Mr. Mills made a most excellent sermon, upon “Lord forgive us our former iniquities;” speaking excellently of the justice of God in punishing men for the sins of their ancestors."
This was an excellent sermon because Rev. Mills explained a way of looking at current events through the teachings of the Bible. He provided leadership to his confused flock. The flock were all in recovery from hours-long sermons threatening hell fire and the second coming and personal responsibility for everything -- but the Church of England's more compassionate message was not fully developed yet. Young preachers in particular didn't have the experience or the memory of how to provide leadership in a concise and less flamboyant manner. So they mumbled their way through some platitudes in "dull" sermons, and according to Josselin, the parishioners sometimes stayed home in protest. The parishioners probably turned out today because it would be noted by someone if they didn't show up -- and given the rising of last month and the number of people detained in prison right now, they didn't want their name on the wrong list.
Today the Rev. Ralph says: 30. A Fast to lament the Kings death. preached from. Jerem: 17.v.9. “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
I think their sermons' premises illustrate that Mr. Mills was old enough to remember how to be a CofE preacher, and the Rev. Ralph lives in the heart of Puritan country and is struggling to bridge the divide.
"... So I went home, and there understand that my mother is come home well from Brampton, ..."
No mention of any domestic details from Pepys, but presumably his aunt recovered, and Pall will now be relieved of caring for her father and come back to Seething Lane.
"Home, and John Goods comes, and after dinner I did pay him 30l. for my Lady, ..."
I think this was to reimburse Goods for paying the overnight accounts for Lady Sandwich and party of 8 plus coach and horses at Chatham. "So we took coach, and I went into the coach, and went through the town, without making stop at our inn, but left J. Goods to pay the reckoning." https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Pepys was left in charge by My Lord, and Pepys will be reimbursed by the Adm. in due time, with luck.
"... did please ourselves to see young Davis and Whitton, two of our clerks, going by us in the field, who we observe to take much pleasure together, and I did most often see them at play together."
I detect a touch of wishfullness here. The good old days of being free and able to run around on Tower Hill, playing football or roughhousing. Sigh. Now Pepys strolls at a leisurely rate with Adm. Penn who is recuperating from a long attack of (probably) gout. That's what happens when you turn 28 and get a Government position; you have to act like a grownup and think of your image.
"The coffin in which was the body of Cromwell was a very rich thing, very full of gilded hinges and nails. "It seems strange, if the whole purpose of this charade was to humiliate the memory of Cromwell, that they left him (or most of him) in his fancy coffin. Surely, a pine box would have been more fitting for the puritan?"
Emilio probably provided us with the answer. In Cromwell's state funeral Everlyn reports that "[22] He was carried from Somerset-house in a velvet bed of state ..."
So it sounds as if Cromwell was buried in his glorious casket, then dug up and he and his casket were taken to Tyburn. It would have been a way of exposing to people the error in their thinking that Cromwell was anything like a humble Puritan -- he was buried as a false king. All part of the Stuart narrative and deprogramming campaign.
Comments
Third Reading
About Sunday 3 February 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"In my way heard Mr. Thomas Fuller preach at the Savoy upon our forgiving of other men’s trespasses, shewing among other things that we are to go to law never to revenge, but only to repayre, which I think a good distinction."
Is the good Dr. Fuller -- a tried and true Royalist his whole life -- criticizing Charles II and/or Parliament for the trials and executions/imprisonment of the Regicides? Also the detention of thousands of Quakers and non conformists following Venner's Rising?
If not, it's curious timing for an "in a perfect world" sermon; only 3 days ago they were memorializing the execution of King Charles -- the CofE's only saint.
If he is, this could be a contraversial opinion to have, and Pepys has shared with us an of-necessity private opinion.
About Sunday 3 February 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... one of the marks of fashion was simply how much material went into your clothes, sending the clear message that you could afford to pay for far more than was functionally necessary."
This may have been the style of clothing Pepys wore, but last year when he first got his appointment, he had 2 outfits made -- one in silk and one in a woolen cloth -- and after some research I found they were both in clerical black. So Pepys was no where near flamboyant in dress, but, yes, it was nevertheless tied together with ribbons (which is why he needs help getting dressed).
About Sunday 3 February 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... and so home, where I met with letters to call us all up to-morrow morning to Whitehall about office business."
17th century version of a blast email.
About Sir Peter Ball (Attorney-General to the Queen Mother)
San Diego Sarah • Link
L&M: Sir Peter Ball (died 1680). Attorney General to the Queen Mother, 1643 - 1667. Referred to by Pepys in 1700 as an "old friend".
About Saturday 2 February 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Lots I don't understand -- like where the money comes from and to what extent the monarchy has separate money ... as "they" say, follow the money."
The monarchy is the government. Parliament passes bills, subject to approval by the monarch. But Parliament's real task is to collect taxes and establish a budget. The taxes are delivered to Whitehall Palace and distributed by the Exchequor according to Parliement's approved budget. The Exchequor is located within Whitehall Palace.
Parliament allots an allowance each year to Charles II, which he could not possibly live on this year, so they had to give him more. I suspect that will continue to be the case. We shall see.
About Saturday 2 February 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"After dinner I was sent for to Sir G. Carteret’s, where he was, and I found the Comptroller, who are upon writing a letter to the Commissioners of Parliament ..."
I wonder why Carteret was involved. He was an honored royalist mariner, yes, and according to his Parliamentary bio, be was "Comptroller of the navy 1641-2," but he has no current role in Navy affairs. He's not even an MP.
Perhaps he was a friend of Slingsby's who went to him for advice on how to handle this hot potato, and using his premises was a way of keeping gossip out of the Navy Board offices.
It also occus to me that "So the Comptroller and I thence to a tavern hard by, and there did agree upon drawing up some letters to be sent to all the pursers and Clerks of the Cheques to make up their accounts" may be a related notation.
If Slingsby/Pepys and Carteret? argued that there was more than enough work on budgets being undertaken by the Navy Board's clerks now, therefore none could be spared, they had to come up with some arduous work for those Clerks to busy with to make the story true.
Crafty fellows.
About Friday 1 February 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"He really is starting to become a hub in society isn't he?"
When they moved into Seething Lane, it needed some upgrading, plus they had little furniture. The Pepys have been shopping and upgrading and had the painters in until Christmas. Now it's time to repay some of the hospitality they have enjoyed during the last few months.
As to entertaining movers and shakers -- could they be the often troublesome family group from last year who were ignored recently? We shall see.
About Wednesday 30 January 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Do 17th century nobilities bury their deads with sumptuous funerary goods?"
Apparently Cromwell's family and "courtiers" thought that's how a everything-but-in-name-a-king was buried.
Charles I had a much less ceremonial exit, which Charles II decided not to change although he promoted him as the first and only Anglican saint.
As in all things, he who pays decides.
About Friday 1 February 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
The letter to the Commissioners of Parliament.
Pauline and Captain Caveman are correct. The "Commissioners" in this case were Members of Parliament assembled for the sole purpose of paying off the Army and Navy and therefore had no servants/clerks assigned for the work.
As I recall this Commission included William Prynne MP
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Col. John Birch MP
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
and the Lord Mayor of London, Sir Richard Browne MP
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
They all had brief experience in dealing with the sailors and paperwork, but apparently have now discovered it's not as simple as it appeared when they were just helping.
About Friday 1 February 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
I think Nate Lockwood is right: "My guess is that it's bad enough that he doesn't want to be seen with it in that condition as it certainly won't look ready for use and would imply that he doesn't really know how to use it well. Of course there might also be an event on the horizon that will require him wear it ceremonially."
Pepys probably became aware of the deterioration when he was "invited" to ride all night protecting the good sleeping citizens of London against the Fifth Monarchist rampaging hordes -- and now there is an upcoming ceremony that his brother wishes to come to London for, and who knows what the rabble will get up to then. Can't be seen out with a rusty sword on those occasions! No siree.
About Richard Brigden
San Diego Sarah • Link
L&M echo Mary's information, plus
"A man of substance with 3 servants. Possibly also known as 'my cutler'."
About William Symons
San Diego Sarah • Link
L&M: William Symons was a comtemporary of Pepys' in the service of the Commonwealth (as an underclerk at the Council of State). He married shortly after Pepys on 9 July, 1656 at St. Margaret's, Westminster, to Margaret Sherring in a civil ceremony conducted by his uncle, Henry Scobell, a Middlesex J.P. (and clerk to the Commonwealth parliaments).
He lost his place at the Restoration and by 1669 -- no longer such a 'very brave fellow' as Pepys once thought him -- was a clerk employed at the Brooke House Committee. No doubt the fact that he was the nephew of his uncle was of less than no advantage to him in 1660.
Under Henry Scobell's will be inherited the remainder of a lease of a house in Westminster, and -- subject to certain charges -- the manor of Luffnall and Cromer in Norfolk.
About Thursday 31 January 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
I think we can assume it was the Little Gift that took Sandwich's deals to Kings Lynn in February 1660/61.
Interesting that Sandwich bought his wood in France/Flanders/Dutch Republic -- depending on where he delivered the Queen Mother and Minette (I suspect France since they were French Catholics and therefore welcome).
About Gift
San Diego Sarah • Link
I think we can assume it was the Little Gift that took Sandwich's deals to Kings Lynn in February 1660/61.
About Wednesday 30 January 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
rusticated meaning: verb
1. go to, live in, or spend time in the country.
2. fashion (masonry) in large blocks with sunk joints and a roughened surface: "the stable block was built of rusticated stone"
Does Cambridge University qualify as "rusticated" -- definition #1?
I think several fellows of the Royal Society would challenge you to a duel over that chacterization!
About Wednesday 30 January 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"(Fast day). The first time that this day hath been yet observed: and Mr. Mills made a most excellent sermon, upon “Lord forgive us our former iniquities;” speaking excellently of the justice of God in punishing men for the sins of their ancestors."
This was an excellent sermon because Rev. Mills explained a way of looking at current events through the teachings of the Bible. He provided leadership to his confused flock.
The flock were all in recovery from hours-long sermons threatening hell fire and the second coming and personal responsibility for everything -- but the Church of England's more compassionate message was not fully developed yet.
Young preachers in particular didn't have the experience or the memory of how to provide leadership in a concise and less flamboyant manner. So they mumbled their way through some platitudes in "dull" sermons, and according to Josselin, the parishioners sometimes stayed home in protest. The parishioners probably turned out today because it would be noted by someone if they didn't show up -- and given the rising of last month and the number of people detained in prison right now, they didn't want their name on the wrong list.
Today the Rev. Ralph says:
30. A Fast to lament the Kings death. preached from. Jerem: 17.v.9.
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
I think their sermons' premises illustrate that Mr. Mills was old enough to remember how to be a CofE preacher, and the Rev. Ralph lives in the heart of Puritan country and is struggling to bridge the divide.
About Wednesday 30 January 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... So I went home, and there understand that my mother is come home well from Brampton, ..."
No mention of any domestic details from Pepys, but presumably his aunt recovered, and Pall will now be relieved of caring for her father and come back to Seething Lane.
About Wednesday 30 January 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Home, and John Goods comes, and after dinner I did pay him 30l. for my Lady, ..."
I think this was to reimburse Goods for paying the overnight accounts for Lady Sandwich and party of 8 plus coach and horses at Chatham.
"So we took coach, and I went into the coach, and went through the town, without making stop at our inn, but left J. Goods to pay the reckoning."
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Pepys was left in charge by My Lord, and Pepys will be reimbursed by the Adm. in due time, with luck.
About Wednesday 30 January 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... did please ourselves to see young Davis and Whitton, two of our clerks, going by us in the field, who we observe to take much pleasure together, and I did most often see them at play together."
I detect a touch of wishfullness here. The good old days of being free and able to run around on Tower Hill, playing football or roughhousing. Sigh.
Now Pepys strolls at a leisurely rate with Adm. Penn who is recuperating from a long attack of (probably) gout.
That's what happens when you turn 28 and get a Government position; you have to act like a grownup and think of your image.
About Wednesday 30 January 1660/61
San Diego Sarah • Link
"The coffin in which was the body of Cromwell was a very rich thing, very full of gilded hinges and nails.
"It seems strange, if the whole purpose of this charade was to humiliate the memory of Cromwell, that they left him (or most of him) in his fancy coffin. Surely, a pine box would have been more fitting for the puritan?"
Emilio probably provided us with the answer. In Cromwell's state funeral Everlyn reports that "[22] He was carried from Somerset-house in a velvet bed of state ..."
So it sounds as if Cromwell was buried in his glorious casket, then dug up and he and his casket were taken to Tyburn. It would have been a way of exposing to people the error in their thinking that Cromwell was anything like a humble Puritan -- he was buried as a false king. All part of the Stuart narrative and deprogramming campaign.