It seems like such an extraordinary request to modern eyes- for a former neighbor to show up for dinner with a daughter in tow and a letter requesting you take her as your own. Was this accepted behavior in the 17th century? I gather from his reaction that it was not. One can only imagine what Elizabeth’s reaction might have been.
I fail to see why a Naval official should be expected to take in and raise the child of another man, seaman or not. He is not running an orphanage, although (spoiler), he supported John Evelyn in establishing Chelsea Hospital for veterans after the diary period (Willes book).
One measure of extreme cold in London was when the river Thames froze solid and a Frost Fair could be held with skating and shops in the ice. The Frost Fair of 1683: According to a document of the time: 'A very violent frost began, which lasted to the 6th of February, in so great extremity, that the pools were frozen 18 inches thick at least, and the Thames was so frozen that a great street from the Temple to Southwark was built with shops, and all manner of things sold' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/a…
The site reference in Chris’s piece, measuringworth.com, also has a very useful calculator where you can plug in the beginning date, e.g. 1664, the end date, 2016 (the most recent full year), the amount you’re starting with, say the £2.5 million Parliament appropriated for the Navy in 1664 , and it will provide you a table with the current equivalent values for different purposes, such as those noted by Chris, e.g. £2.5 million in 1664 is equivalent to £85 billion in 2016 in terms of its share of GDP.
Of interest, glassdoor,com reports the current average salary for a cook in the UK is about £16,240, so the economic status hasn’t changed much in 340 years! Other sites give different current cook salaries, e.g. £23k, but it depends on the location and all in the same general range as Pepys cook’s current economic status.
Of interest, glassdoor,com reports the current average salary for a cook in the UK is about £16,240, so the economic status hasn’t changed much in 340 years! Other sites give different current cook salaries, e.g. £23k, but it depends on the location and all in the same general range as Pepys cook’s current economic status.
That site has a nice little calculator where you can plug in the beginning date,e.g. 1664, the end date, 2016 (the most recent full year), the amount you’re starting with, £2.5 million, and it will provide you a table with the current equivalent values for different purposes, such as those noted by Chris.
Using the measuring worth calculators referred to above, the share of GNP represented by £2.5 million in 1664 would be equivalent to £85 billion today. Not exactly a cheap war in terms of the amount of national wealth consumed.
Swearing then as now was likely considered a sign of low class behavior. In my experience, very senior folk have to very careful about when they use swear words or off color stories least they lose the respect of their collegues and subordinates as here. I have seen it happen more than once. Selective use on the other hand can have very considerable impact. Eisenhower was reportedly very good at this in private meetings.
British Sailors then didn’t eat fish, so no business fot the fishmonger uncle. Even In the 1960’s when I was a serving officer, if you didn’t want a mutiny, you better serve the crew meat and potatoes.
Signal flags are still used to communicate orders or messages between ships at sea. Small groups of letters are code for various maneuvers, like prepare to turn right together on my signal- the signal being the dropping of the flags.
What civilians call flags the Navy calls ensigns. The British naval ensigns have been standardized since 1653 and there are three, the White, The Red, and the Blue. What we think of as the British flag sits in the upper left corner of the ensigns, which are otherwise a solid color. Flags in the Navy are signal flags with shapes and colors that denote a letter or number. They are square. There are also triangular pennants denoting various things. These are now an international standard, Many letter flags also have specific meaning like diver below or refueling.
This seems to finally clarify what his definition of net worth is: cash, gold and silver on hand. This would seem to exclude monies owed and monies owed to him, e.g. The 700L lent to Sandwich, as well as real estate. Not clear how he values other assets like the two silver flagons and silver salt cellars or other personal items like furniture or clothing.
Re Uncle Wight provisioning ships. Sailors on warships don't usually eat fish. Provisions listed for the British ship Bellona 74 guns in 1760 listed as provisions for 650 men for four months.
Nate, it was indeed the Knox. Navigation was indeed very tricky in the South China Sea. Often cloudy and the Chinese didn't participate in the crude radio navigation system of the day called LORAN, so it was pretty much as in Pepys time. I believe it was months before they could get the Knox off the shoal, and then she was scrapped. I knew an officer on the staff of the Admiral that convened the Courts Martials of the Capt and OOD, but never got the whole story. Comparison watch error I heard. Like the Knox on the Rocks bit.
Al true. I was a ships navigator in the days of sextants and chronometers and if you knew your position within 5 to 10 miles, you were doing good. But charts also have errors. There are vast areas of uncharted waters with unknown sea mounts and shoals rising to a few feet beneath the surface. I discovered and reported one many years ago in the South China Sea.
Re islands rising and falling. Besides the creation of new islands by volcanic activity, e.g. off Iceland, there are areas lke the South China Sea where low lying islands are covered at high tide and visible at low tide. The Chinese have been recently building up some of these. Even worse from the mariners perspective are those that lie just beneath the surface. One of our sister destroyers went aground on one of these unmarked on the charts.
Comments
Second Reading
About Thursday 16 February 1664/65
RSGII • Link
It seems like such an extraordinary request to modern eyes- for a former neighbor to show up for dinner with a daughter in tow and a letter requesting you take her as your own. Was this accepted behavior in the 17th century? I gather from his reaction that it was not. One can only imagine what Elizabeth’s reaction might have been.
About Thursday 16 February 1664/65
RSGII • Link
I fail to see why a Naval official should be expected to take in and raise the child of another man, seaman or not. He is not running an orphanage, although (spoiler), he supported John Evelyn in establishing Chelsea Hospital for veterans after the diary period (Willes book).
About Monday 6 February 1664/65
RSGII • Link
One measure of extreme cold in London was when the river Thames froze solid and a Frost Fair could be held with skating and shops in the ice. The Frost Fair of 1683: According to a document of the time: 'A very violent frost began, which lasted to the 6th of February, in so great extremity, that the pools were frozen 18 inches thick at least, and the Thames was so frozen that a great street from the Temple to Southwark was built with shops, and all manner of things sold' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/a…
About Prices
RSGII • Link
The site reference in Chris’s piece, measuringworth.com, also has a very useful calculator where you can plug in the beginning date, e.g. 1664, the end date, 2016 (the most recent full year), the amount you’re starting with, say the £2.5 million Parliament appropriated for the Navy in 1664 , and it will provide you a table with the current equivalent values for different purposes, such as those noted by Chris, e.g. £2.5 million in 1664 is equivalent to £85 billion in 2016 in terms of its share of GDP.
About Prices
RSGII • Link
Of interest, glassdoor,com reports the current average salary for a cook in the UK is about £16,240, so the economic status hasn’t changed much in 340 years! Other sites give different current cook salaries, e.g. £23k, but it depends on the location and all in the same general range as Pepys cook’s current economic status.
About Wednesday 30 November 1664
RSGII • Link
Of interest, glassdoor,com reports the current average salary for a cook in the UK is about £16,240, so the economic status hasn’t changed much in 340 years! Other sites give different current cook salaries, e.g. £23k, but it depends on the location and all in the same general range as Pepys cook’s current economic status.
About Wednesday 30 November 1664
RSGII • Link
A cook was paid 5£ a year so he is now worth 242 cooks!
About Saturday 26 November 1664
RSGII • Link
That site has a nice little calculator where you can plug in the beginning date,e.g. 1664, the end date, 2016 (the most recent full year), the amount you’re starting with, £2.5 million, and it will provide you a table with the current equivalent values for different purposes, such as those noted by Chris.
About Saturday 26 November 1664
RSGII • Link
Using the measuring worth calculators referred to above, the share of GNP represented by £2.5 million in 1664 would be equivalent to £85 billion today. Not exactly a cheap war in terms of the amount of national wealth consumed.
About Friday 18 November 1664
RSGII • Link
Swearing then as now was likely considered a sign of low class behavior. In my experience, very senior folk have to very careful about when they use swear words or off color stories least they lose the respect of their collegues and subordinates as here. I have seen it happen more than once. Selective use on the other hand can have very considerable impact. Eisenhower was reportedly very good at this in private meetings.
About Sunday 6 November 1664
RSGII • Link
British Sailors then didn’t eat fish, so no business fot the fishmonger uncle. Even In the 1960’s when I was a serving officer, if you didn’t want a mutiny, you better serve the crew meat and potatoes.
About Wednesday 12 October 1664
RSGII • Link
Signal flags are still used to communicate orders or messages between ships at sea. Small groups of letters are code for various maneuvers, like prepare to turn right together on my signal- the signal being the dropping of the flags.
About Wednesday 12 October 1664
RSGII • Link
What civilians call flags the Navy calls ensigns. The British naval ensigns have been standardized since 1653 and there are three, the White, The Red, and the Blue. What we think of as the British flag sits in the upper left corner of the ensigns, which are otherwise a solid color.
Flags in the Navy are signal flags with shapes and colors that denote a letter or number. They are square. There are also triangular pennants denoting various things. These are now an international standard, Many letter flags also have specific meaning like diver below or refueling.
About Saturday 1 October 1664
RSGII • Link
Impressment of American Seaman by British Warships was of course one of the contributing causes of the War of 1812.
About Tuesday 27 September 1664
RSGII • Link
This seems to finally clarify what his definition of net worth is: cash, gold and silver on hand. This would seem to exclude monies owed and monies owed to him, e.g. The 700L lent to Sandwich, as well as real estate. Not clear how he values other assets like the two silver flagons and silver salt cellars or other personal items like furniture or clothing.
About Friday 12 August 1664
RSGII • Link
Interesting new comments, but hard to have a dialog when 2017 annotators, unlike in 2007, are commenting weeks before the page is released.
About Sunday 15 May 1664
RSGII • Link
Re Uncle Wight provisioning ships. Sailors on warships don't usually eat fish. Provisions listed for the British ship Bellona 74 guns in 1760
listed as provisions for 650 men for four months.
Beef 5200 pieces 20800 lbs
Pork 9620 pieces 19240 lbs
Beer 236 butts 29736 US gallons
Water 339 butts 30 puncheons 60 hogsheads 49018 US gallons
Bread 650 bags 72800 lbs
Butter 3900 lbs
Cheese 14160 lbs
Oatmeal 19008 lbs
Peas 20800 lbs
Flour 15590 lbs
Suet 2600 lbs
Vinegar 709 US gallons
Hadn't changed 200 years later when I served in the US Navy- better be meat and potaoes for the crew if you didn't want a riot.
About Wednesday 23 March 1663/64
RSGII • Link
Nate, it was indeed the Knox. Navigation was indeed very tricky in the South China Sea. Often cloudy and the Chinese didn't participate in the crude radio navigation system of the day called LORAN, so it was pretty much as in Pepys time.
I believe it was months before they could get the Knox off the shoal, and then she was scrapped. I knew an officer on the staff of the Admiral that convened the Courts Martials of the Capt and OOD, but never got the whole story. Comparison watch error I heard. Like the Knox on the Rocks bit.
About Wednesday 23 March 1663/64
RSGII • Link
Al true. I was a ships navigator in the days of sextants and chronometers and if you knew your position within 5 to 10 miles, you were doing good. But charts also have errors. There are vast areas of uncharted waters with unknown sea mounts and shoals rising to a few feet beneath the surface. I discovered and reported one many years ago in the South China Sea.
About Wednesday 23 March 1663/64
RSGII • Link
Re islands rising and falling. Besides the creation of new islands by volcanic activity, e.g. off Iceland, there are areas lke the South China Sea where low lying islands are covered at high tide and visible at low tide. The Chinese have been recently building up some of these. Even worse from the mariners perspective are those that lie just beneath the surface. One of our sister destroyers went aground on one of these unmarked on the charts.