I'm pleased to see neither Pepys nor Blackborne are too proud for the Commonwealth man to mentor the Royalist newcomer. The exchange of information would be vital and in the national interest.
"From thence W. Hewer and I to the office of Privy Seal, ..."
I think I am right -- William Hewer is Pepys' "boy," and young Will is Elizabeth's and the household boy. They both have "go fetch" needs (hense the job description, gofer).
"We note, though, that he's already known as far away as Dublin as the go-to man who can speed things up in the bureaucracy."
Pepys is the office manager, Stephane. While I like to think of his fame as a go-to guy has reached Ireland, I think this is really just the job. He's not the surveyor or the victualler or the accountant -- he opens the mail and gives correspondence to the right person, or puts the matter on the agenda for Navy Board's next sitting for discussion.
Feeding the troops was always priority #1. The accountant had no money. The Controller had no money. So Pepys kicked the problem upstairs to the Admiral: Sandwich could get money.
L&M: Peter Llewellyn (1636 - 1665). Son of David Llewellyn, underkeeper of the Privy Lodgings, Windsor; appointed undeclerk of the Council of State in February, 1660. After service in Ireland with Anglesey, he became clerk to Edward Dering, timber merchant. He died unmarried.
His brother, David, was about to go to Constantinople in 1660. He was alive when Peter made his will, but still 'far distant'.
'"to the Admiralty; and from thence I went to my Lord’s to fetch him thither" 'The Westminster boogie gives SP time with "my Lord": the Companion has the Admiralty at this time at the Lord Admiral's (the Duke of York's in summer) in St James's Palace; Mountagu had an official residence in Whitehall Palace.'
Two things: St. James's was just down the road from the sprawling Palace of Westminster, so there isn't much of a material difference here; Do we know for sure that James is living at St. James's now?
The 3 Stuart brothers are all bachelors, and both palaces were pretty run down. Oliver had lived at Whitehall, so presumably of the 2, it was in the better condition. My guess is they were all bunking together for economy, security and convenience so soon after the restoration, while the decorators were at work. When they get married and establish their own courts, and the redecorating is finished, they will spread out. We know the upholsters, at the least, are at work on Whitehall now. Not exactly camping, but still make-shift and in flux.
Also, Pepys doesn't mention going to see James at St. James's until May, 1662 -- which doesn't mean he doesn't go there before that, but it wasn't enough to make it his main destination.
This is hinted at in this excerpt from a Victorian book about St. James's Palace:
"After the Restoration, Charles II, although born in St. James's palace, did not reside regularly at St. James's, but used the palace for State purposes only.
"His mistresses [much later] had apartments there, including Hortense Mancini (Duchess of Mazarine), who, together with Madame Beauclair, had been moved over to St. James's on the restoration of Whitehall Palace, where they were originally located."
ST, JAMES'S PALACE VOL. I.
MEMORIALS OF ST. JAMES'S PALACE BY EDGAR SHEPPABD, MA. SUB-DEAN OF H.M. CHAPELS ROYAL CHAPLAIN TO THE QUEEN [VICTORIA] AND H.R.H. THE DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE IN TWO VOLUMES
Having said that, unless Pepys explains himself better, we do not know for sure ... does someone have a resource I don't have? Maybe the correspondence files will reveal more, if someone has access to them and would like to check. They frequently specify where FROM and TO were located.
On August 1, 1660 (!) Mountain Man directs us to Thomas Frederick Tout's massive "Chapters in the Administrative History of Mediaeval England" (1920-1933), now online.
Reviewer: Mercedes Rochelle - September 22, 2017 Subject: This comes in 5 Volumes "This is a book reserved for the deepest layer of research. I keep finding Tout listed in the footnotes of history book after history book. Who is this guy? It's wrong to say I’m finished. I read Volume 1 out of 5. Tout apparently made English administrative history his life’s work, and subsequent modern “rewrites” rely on his exhaustive research. I found him surprisingly readable. My immediate concerns are related to Richard II’s reign, but I concluded I would be remiss if I didn’t go to the beginning. As expected, Tout began with the Normans, although things started to heat up in the reign of Henry III, when the administration as we would recognize it began to take shape. It was interesting to see how the king’s household — or his chamber — established itself for his convenience, then started forming subgroups like the chancery, the exchequer, and the wardrobe; all of them initially answered to the king. Eventually they broke free and functioned on their own. Each department developed its own officers; sometimes they were clerics, sometimes they were laymen. These positions were often stepping-stones to greater appointments, all the way up to archbishop. The great seal of the chancery was soon supplemented by a privy — or small — seal (often, but not always, held by the exchequer) which was frequently used when the king was absent. I wish things were tidy and linear so I could get my hands around them, but there was much back-and-forth between which department worked for whom — sometimes being reabsorbed into the king’s chamber, and sometimes duplicating their efforts (especially between the exchequer and the wardrobe). This went on for generations. But overall, I’m beginning to see just how critical these departments were to defining the king’s role in his government (and how much control he had). Interestingly, Tout refused to describe any major political upsets of each reign; he insisted that this was outside the scope of his study. So, although we have what amounted to a civil war in Henry III’s reign, he only spoke of the changes in the administrative structure. It was as though the household ran as usual, even with catastrophes erupting all around it. Maybe that’s the way it was? With this as a firm foundation, I’m skipping forward to the end of Edward III (volume 3). With luck, I’ll be able to discover why the nobles and commons were so intent on “cleaning house” during the Merciless Parliament of Richard II. What was going on behind the scenes?"
On August 1, 1660 (!) Mountain Man directs us to Thomas Frederick Tout's massive "Chapters in the Administrative History of Mediaeval England" (1920-1933), now online.
Reviewer: Mercedes Rochelle - September 22, 2017 Subject: This comes in 5 Volumes "This is a book reserved for the deepest layer of research. I keep finding Tout listed in the footnotes of history book after history book. Who is this guy? It's wrong to say I’m finished. I read Volume 1 out of 5. Tout apparently made English administrative history his life’s work, and subsequent modern “rewrites” rely on his exhaustive research. I found him surprisingly readable. My immediate concerns are related to Richard II’s reign, but I concluded I would be remiss if I didn’t go to the beginning. As expected, Tout began with the Normans, although things started to heat up in the reign of Henry III, when the administration as we would recognize it began to take shape. It was interesting to see how the king’s household — or his chamber — established itself for his convenience, then started forming subgroups like the chancery, the exchequer, and the wardrobe; all of them initially answered to the king. Eventually they broke free and functioned on their own. Each department developed its own officers; sometimes they were clerics, sometimes they were laymen. These positions were often stepping-stones to greater appointments, all the way up to archbishop. The great seal of the chancery was soon supplemented by a privy — or small — seal (often, but not always, held by the exchequer) which was frequently used when the king was absent. I wish things were tidy and linear so I could get my hands around them, but there was much back-and-forth between which department worked for whom — sometimes being reabsorbed into the king’s chamber, and sometimes duplicating their efforts (especially between the exchequer and the wardrobe). This went on for generations. But overall, I’m beginning to see just how critical these departments were to defining the king’s role in his government (and how much control he had). Interestingly, Tout refused to describe any major political upsets of each reign; he insisted that this was outside the scope of his study. So, although we have what amounted to a civil war in Henry III’s reign, he only spoke of the changes in the administrative structure. It was as though the household ran as usual, even with catastrophes erupting all around it. Maybe that’s the way it was? With this as a firm foundation, I’m skipping forward to the end of Edward III (volume 3). With luck, I’ll be able to discover why the nobles and commons were so intent on “cleaning house” during the Merciless Parliament of Richard II. What was going on behind the scenes?"
Jim, if you're still reading along, 18 months later -- rather than spy, I should have used their word: Intelligencer. Spies take chances and read other people's mail and break into offices and pretend to be people other than they are.
Pepys finds people who might know what's going on and buys them a drink. "Strange times," he says. "I heard xyz today. Do you know anything about that, or is it fake news?" blah blah blah. "Looks like you could use another glass of sack. I also heard ..." blah blah blah.
These are times without newspapers, investigative reporters, nightly news, etc. Just newsletters with opinions rather than facts, and rumors galore. Clergymen read out Parliament's pronouncements on Sundays. Charles II will realize this isn't a good thing and authorize Williamson to send out a weekly newsletter with the equivalent of press releases from all over the world which people can subscribe to -- it's called the London Gazette, so you might still be familiar with it? But that's a couple of years away.
The ability to find out the facts in a timely manner is an important skill and task, or Pepys could invest valuable office time fighting the wrong fire. Being friendly with the people of influence around town takes an investment of time and a few bottles of wine, frequently applied. He needs all the friends he can get.
My guess at what this meeting was about reflects how governmental budgets are done today.
Parliament passes a Supply Bill -- which they did yesterday. This details taxes and revenue streams for the next fiscal year.
Every department submits its "To Do" list with guestimated budgets to the Chancellor of the Exchequor. He then puts together the nation's budget charting priorities.
The security of the nation depended on the Navy; The security of the merchant fleet depended on being protected by the Navy -- otherwise no exports and no imported food; The suppression of the Barbary Pirates was undertaken by the Navy -- and they also negotiated for the freedom of British slaves taken by them; A weak Navy was an invitation for trouble from abroad; And the ability to take advantage of trouble in other nations depended on the Navy's ability to respond. So the Navy estimates would be the first thing the Chancellor of the Exchequor considered when thinking about the government's priorities. The Commissioners better mention everything they needed, with good guestimates.
The Navy Board and Sandwich, and probably the Admiralty men, are doing that today -- they won't get everything approved they ask for, but if they don't ask they can't get. I suspect they also had to include interest on outstanding loans to the Commonwealth, which would be substantial.
Abacuses are clicking all over the Palace of Whitehall. (I don't know if they used abacuses, but whatever they did use, they were using them.)
"Bourne was again at Deptford in January (1658), and whilst there was being harassed by the financial affairs at Harwich, the master shipwright continually forwarding the complaints he received, and asking for Bourne’s assistance. Receiving from the Admiralty a letter which roused his ire, he replied he would have waited on them had not public affairs detained him: “There are,” he said, “two bills of exchange for £714 drawn on you for cordage bought at Ipswich, and the contractors expect it. I am not accustomed to such language as I receive from you, and request an order for payment, and a bill of imprest for £450 for carrying on Naval affairs at Harwich, and ask it in the public interest.” He was quieted for a time by the Admiralty instructing the Navy Office ... " https://www.colonialsociety.org/n…
£300,000 then was many billions now? And things had only gone downhill since 1658. Somewhere I have posted how much the Navy owed in 1660 -- but of course I can't find it now.
The vision of the Commonwealth was noble and worthy -- but things had deteriorated to the point they were so desperate, most of the power players were now willing to invite a King back, and agree to him making the decisions. Holding Charles II responsible for England's ills was preferable to another civil war.
"Is this when P. realises how bad things are and the enormous task in front of him?"
Probably not, John. Lack of funds has been a problem for years. But maybe that's why Pepys is willing to sell his place -- knowing about and being responsible for are 2 different things.
From the Diary we know that the Army riots were different unpaid factions and generals trying to take control of the country; the Army hadn't been paid for about 3 years; Parliament fobbed them off with a couple of month's pay. Lots of angry fighting men out there now; the reason there was no work for Pepys to do at the office was because there was no money -- lots of bills, yes, pay, no; and he certainly knew Montagu had trouble finding enough seaworthy ships and willing sailors for the Spring fleet.
He's been spending time with Robert Blackborne and the out-going commissioners. The sort of stories they have probably shared is this excerpt describing the workings of the Navy Board in 1657-8:
"The Victualing Office in London still occupied much of his time; the pursers’ accounts for the ships home from Jamaica were scrutinized with the greatest care, claims for more than half rations for prisoners of war disputed, and where it was stated that extra rations had been ordered by the commanders to be issued to the seamen as an “encouragement,” it was only passed after approval by the Navy Office. "The State Papers of this year contain many notes of Bills of Imprest, at first for £3,000 every 2 weeks and later rising to £4,000 a week, on the order of Majors Bourne and Thomson and Commissioner Willoughby, for carrying on the work of the Victualing Office. This department seems to have been the only one able to obtain adequate funds, but the imperative need of a regular supply of provisions and the inevitable consequences of failing to pay the contractors, left no alternative but to keep the department in funds.
"The debts of the navy were now £100,000 and its immediate needs £300,000, but Parliament refused to grant it unless the control of the militia was restored to them, and Cromwell, utterly refusing to allow the military power out of his own hands, in a fit of temper, dissolved Parliament. "Such a situation did not ease the difficulties or improve the tempers of the Navy Commissioners, who were at once the butt between the seamen and dockyard workmen and the administration. "Pensions of the sick and wounded were always in arrears; the men in the dockyard were unpaid and frequently complained that they were unable to obtain credit for the necessities of life. "Commissioner Peter Pett had been obliged to leave Chatham for a time to get rid of the clamor of the unpaid poor.
"That was when everyone be euphoric over NEW future, now they have seen the King is copying Papa I and spending the merchants money on the pleasures of life , and not every one be happy to "coff" up."
I was wondering what evidence CGS has for saying this: Charles and James are single men, and I don't think anyone would have thought twice about their flings: Charles' courtship of the beautiful, young Mrs. Barbara Villiers Palmer certainly wasn't worthy of much notice; Yes, he had bought The Happy Return and moored her in the Thames where he could see her, which was a bit extravagant; They are refurnishing the Palace and getting some new clothes -- no surprise there, I think. Charles seems to be working and doing Kingly things for his cronies to me -- plus keeping his foot firmly up the backsides of the houses of parliament, who don't seem eager to hold anyone accountable for his father's death. What have I missed?
I checked the House of Lords' roster for today, and Sandwich is missing, so it's reasonable to think he is chairing this meeting. Many other Lords are also missing -- they really don't want to talk about the Act of Indemnity and Oblivion, do they!
Consequently, the Speaker (Chancellor Hyde today) ruled that everyone who is missing without prior leave will be fined 5 shillings, to be given to the poor.
Check out Phil's links, top right, to the Houses of Commons and Lords. They help to fill out the picture of what's going on and the conversation topics of the day. Often they will dictate what Pepys is doing.
"Any idea why the Officers of the Navy Board would meet with Montagu at Whitehall, instead of at the Navy Office? ... I would have thought Montagu's new quarters at the Wardrobe would have made the Navy Office more convenient for him, too."
My thought was that the Lord High Admiral, James, Duke of York and the members of the Admiralty might have also been in this brain-storming session. And they are all anchored at Whitehall. Certainly the Exquechor was there, and so the money numbers might have been more available.
Then I saw James was presiding over the House of Lords today, along with Henry, Duke of Gloucester. Which doesn't mean he didn't leave for a couple of hours to meet with his navy men.
The timing is significant: The Supply bill was passed yesterday, so there were a lot of people sitting with their abacuses today, trying to figure out what the take might be next year.
@@@
Later we will find out that Jemima, Lady Sandwich has taken the quarters at the Wardrobe for her territory. Husbands and wives at their level often kept separate establishments in those days -- they made dates to see each other. (The King and Queen also did this -- people had their own courtiers, accounts and territories. Very civilized.) As Terry said above, Sandwich had very generous quarters at Whitehall.
I can tell you why they had the canoe taken to King's Lynn -- same reason Charles II's landing barge is going there:
"The River Great Ouse (/uːz/) is a river in England, the longest of several British rivers called "Ouse". From Syresham in Northamptonshire, the Great Ouse flows through Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and Norfolk to drain into the Wash and the North Sea near Kings Lynn." -- Google
The sailors/servants can then row/tow/sail it up the Ouse, with only a short land haul to Hinchingbrooke, where there is a sizeable lake, so it can be used by the children.
The roads were narrow and awful -- sea and river transportation was the preferred/cheapest/safest -- and possibly fastest -- mode.
'The Stamford Oath,' created by Edward III, limited English Universities -- but not Scottish ones: Although all of these universities are included among the so-called "ancient universities" of Scotland, St. Andrews is the country's oldest, having been founded in 1413. The University of Glasgow came next, in 1451, followed by the University of Aberdeen in 1495 and the University of Edinburgh in 1583. -- Source: Scotland.org
We know Ireland had the venerable Trinity College in Dublin.
But Britain's oldest seat of advanced education was in Wales: It had 2,000 students, making it equal to Oxford or Cambridge, but before either of them: https://www.vaguelyinteresting.co… Otherwise, Wales had to wait until the 18th century for the University College in Wales, Aberystwyth to be founded.
I'm tempted to ask you what on earth you're talking about, Neil, but it will draw us into a conversation that has zilch to do Pepys or the text. I suspect you're frustrated by a local problem. It will be resolved, and 10 years from now we will have to annotate about that instead of Pepys or the text.
A man who is a Sword Bearer thinks he's qualified to be Clerk of the Acts? Pepys seems to think he's out of his depth, and he's a recent University grad. How would a sword bearer handle it? Doesn't bear thinking about what would have happened if Pepys had taken the money!
Comments
Third Reading
About Thursday 2 August 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
I'm pleased to see neither Pepys nor Blackborne are too proud for the Commonwealth man to mentor the Royalist newcomer. The exchange of information would be vital and in the national interest.
About Thursday 2 August 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"From thence W. Hewer and I to the office of Privy Seal, ..."
I think I am right -- William Hewer is Pepys' "boy," and young Will is Elizabeth's and the household boy. They both have "go fetch" needs (hense the job description, gofer).
About Thursday 2 August 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"We note, though, that he's already known as far away as Dublin as the go-to man who can speed things up in the bureaucracy."
Pepys is the office manager, Stephane. While I like to think of his fame as a go-to guy has reached Ireland, I think this is really just the job.
He's not the surveyor or the victualler or the accountant -- he opens the mail and gives correspondence to the right person, or puts the matter on the agenda for Navy Board's next sitting for discussion.
Feeding the troops was always priority #1.
The accountant had no money. The Controller had no money.
So Pepys kicked the problem upstairs to the Admiral: Sandwich could get money.
About Peter Llewellyn
San Diego Sarah • Link
L&M: Peter Llewellyn (1636 - 1665). Son of David Llewellyn, underkeeper of the Privy Lodgings, Windsor; appointed undeclerk of the Council of State in February, 1660. After service in Ireland with Anglesey, he became clerk to Edward Dering, timber merchant. He died unmarried.
His brother, David, was about to go to Constantinople in 1660. He was alive when Peter made his will, but still 'far distant'.
About Thursday 2 August 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
'"to the Admiralty; and from thence I went to my Lord’s to fetch him thither"
'The Westminster boogie gives SP time with "my Lord": the Companion has the Admiralty at this time at the Lord Admiral's (the Duke of York's in summer) in St James's Palace; Mountagu had an official residence in Whitehall Palace.'
Two things:
St. James's was just down the road from the sprawling Palace of Westminster, so there isn't much of a material difference here;
Do we know for sure that James is living at St. James's now?
The 3 Stuart brothers are all bachelors, and both palaces were pretty run down. Oliver had lived at Whitehall, so presumably of the 2, it was in the better condition.
My guess is they were all bunking together for economy, security and convenience so soon after the restoration, while the decorators were at work. When they get married and establish their own courts, and the redecorating is finished, they will spread out.
We know the upholsters, at the least, are at work on Whitehall now.
Not exactly camping, but still make-shift and in flux.
Also, Pepys doesn't mention going to see James at St. James's until May, 1662 -- which doesn't mean he doesn't go there before that, but it wasn't enough to make it his main destination.
This is hinted at in this excerpt from a Victorian book about St. James's Palace:
"After the Restoration, Charles II, although born in St. James's palace, did not reside regularly at St. James's, but used the palace for State purposes only.
"His mistresses [much later] had apartments there, including Hortense Mancini (Duchess of Mazarine), who, together with Madame Beauclair, had been moved over to St. James's on the restoration of Whitehall Palace, where they were originally located."
ST, JAMES'S PALACE
VOL. I.
MEMORIALS OF ST. JAMES'S PALACE
BY
EDGAR SHEPPABD, MA.
SUB-DEAN OF H.M. CHAPELS ROYAL
CHAPLAIN TO THE QUEEN [VICTORIA] AND H.R.H. THE DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE
IN TWO VOLUMES
LONDON
LONGMANS, GREEN AND CO.
AND NEW YORK
http://archive.org/stream/memoria…
Having said that, unless Pepys explains himself better, we do not know for sure ... does someone have a resource I don't have?
Maybe the correspondence files will reveal more, if someone has access to them and would like to check. They frequently specify where FROM and TO were located.
About Signet Office
San Diego Sarah • Link
On August 1, 1660 (!) Mountain Man directs us to Thomas Frederick Tout's massive "Chapters in the Administrative History of Mediaeval England" (1920-1933), now online.
Reviewer: Mercedes Rochelle - September 22, 2017
Subject: This comes in 5 Volumes
"This is a book reserved for the deepest layer of research. I keep finding Tout listed in the footnotes of history book after history book. Who is this guy?
It's wrong to say I’m finished. I read Volume 1 out of 5.
Tout apparently made English administrative history his life’s work, and subsequent modern “rewrites” rely on his exhaustive research. I found him surprisingly readable.
My immediate concerns are related to Richard II’s reign, but I concluded I would be remiss if I didn’t go to the beginning. As expected, Tout began with the Normans, although things started to heat up in the reign of Henry III, when the administration as we would recognize it began to take shape.
It was interesting to see how the king’s household — or his chamber — established itself for his convenience, then started forming subgroups like the chancery, the exchequer, and the wardrobe; all of them initially answered to the king. Eventually they broke free and functioned on their own.
Each department developed its own officers; sometimes they were clerics, sometimes they were laymen. These positions were often stepping-stones to greater appointments, all the way up to archbishop.
The great seal of the chancery was soon supplemented by a privy — or small — seal (often, but not always, held by the exchequer) which was frequently used when the king was absent.
I wish things were tidy and linear so I could get my hands around them, but there was much back-and-forth between which department worked for whom — sometimes being reabsorbed into the king’s chamber, and sometimes duplicating their efforts (especially between the exchequer and the wardrobe).
This went on for generations.
But overall, I’m beginning to see just how critical these departments were to defining the king’s role in his government (and how much control he had).
Interestingly, Tout refused to describe any major political upsets of each reign; he insisted that this was outside the scope of his study. So, although we have what amounted to a civil war in Henry III’s reign, he only spoke of the changes in the administrative structure. It was as though the household ran as usual, even with catastrophes erupting all around it. Maybe that’s the way it was?
With this as a firm foundation, I’m skipping forward to the end of Edward III (volume 3). With luck, I’ll be able to discover why the nobles and commons were so intent on “cleaning house” during the Merciless Parliament of Richard II. What was going on behind the scenes?"
I think the 5 volumes i are accessible through
https://archive.org/details/chapt…
Otherwise JSTOR has it, but you need to belong and log in -- costs money.
About Privy Seal Office
San Diego Sarah • Link
On August 1, 1660 (!) Mountain Man directs us to Thomas Frederick Tout's massive "Chapters in the Administrative History of Mediaeval England" (1920-1933), now online.
Reviewer: Mercedes Rochelle - September 22, 2017
Subject: This comes in 5 Volumes
"This is a book reserved for the deepest layer of research. I keep finding Tout listed in the footnotes of history book after history book. Who is this guy?
It's wrong to say I’m finished. I read Volume 1 out of 5.
Tout apparently made English administrative history his life’s work, and subsequent modern “rewrites” rely on his exhaustive research. I found him surprisingly readable.
My immediate concerns are related to Richard II’s reign, but I concluded I would be remiss if I didn’t go to the beginning. As expected, Tout began with the Normans, although things started to heat up in the reign of Henry III, when the administration as we would recognize it began to take shape.
It was interesting to see how the king’s household — or his chamber — established itself for his convenience, then started forming subgroups like the chancery, the exchequer, and the wardrobe; all of them initially answered to the king. Eventually they broke free and functioned on their own.
Each department developed its own officers; sometimes they were clerics, sometimes they were laymen. These positions were often stepping-stones to greater appointments, all the way up to archbishop.
The great seal of the chancery was soon supplemented by a privy — or small — seal (often, but not always, held by the exchequer) which was frequently used when the king was absent.
I wish things were tidy and linear so I could get my hands around them, but there was much back-and-forth between which department worked for whom — sometimes being reabsorbed into the king’s chamber, and sometimes duplicating their efforts (especially between the exchequer and the wardrobe).
This went on for generations.
But overall, I’m beginning to see just how critical these departments were to defining the king’s role in his government (and how much control he had).
Interestingly, Tout refused to describe any major political upsets of each reign; he insisted that this was outside the scope of his study. So, although we have what amounted to a civil war in Henry III’s reign, he only spoke of the changes in the administrative structure. It was as though the household ran as usual, even with catastrophes erupting all around it. Maybe that’s the way it was?
With this as a firm foundation, I’m skipping forward to the end of Edward III (volume 3). With luck, I’ll be able to discover why the nobles and commons were so intent on “cleaning house” during the Merciless Parliament of Richard II. What was going on behind the scenes?"
I think the 5 volumes i are accessible through
https://archive.org/details/chapt…
Otherwise JSTOR has it, but you need to belong and log in -- costs money.
About Wednesday 1 August 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
Jim, if you're still reading along, 18 months later -- rather than spy, I should have used their word: Intelligencer.
Spies take chances and read other people's mail and break into offices and pretend to be people other than they are.
Pepys finds people who might know what's going on and buys them a drink. "Strange times," he says. "I heard xyz today. Do you know anything about that, or is it fake news?" blah blah blah. "Looks like you could use another glass of sack. I also heard ..." blah blah blah.
These are times without newspapers, investigative reporters, nightly news, etc. Just newsletters with opinions rather than facts, and rumors galore. Clergymen read out Parliament's pronouncements on Sundays.
Charles II will realize this isn't a good thing and authorize Williamson to send out a weekly newsletter with the equivalent of press releases from all over the world which people can subscribe to -- it's called the London Gazette, so you might still be familiar with it? But that's a couple of years away.
The ability to find out the facts in a timely manner is an important skill and task, or Pepys could invest valuable office time fighting the wrong fire. Being friendly with the people of influence around town takes an investment of time and a few bottles of wine, frequently applied. He needs all the friends he can get.
About Tuesday 31 July 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
My guess at what this meeting was about reflects how governmental budgets are done today.
Parliament passes a Supply Bill -- which they did yesterday. This details taxes and revenue streams for the next fiscal year.
Every department submits its "To Do" list with guestimated budgets to the Chancellor of the Exchequor. He then puts together the nation's budget charting priorities.
The security of the nation depended on the Navy;
The security of the merchant fleet depended on being protected by the Navy -- otherwise no exports and no imported food;
The suppression of the Barbary Pirates was undertaken by the Navy -- and they also negotiated for the freedom of British slaves taken by them;
A weak Navy was an invitation for trouble from abroad;
And the ability to take advantage of trouble in other nations depended on the Navy's ability to respond.
So the Navy estimates would be the first thing the Chancellor of the Exchequor considered when thinking about the government's priorities. The Commissioners better mention everything they needed, with good guestimates.
The Navy Board and Sandwich, and probably the Admiralty men, are doing that today -- they won't get everything approved they ask for, but if they don't ask they can't get.
I suspect they also had to include interest on outstanding loans to the Commonwealth, which would be substantial.
Abacuses are clicking all over the Palace of Whitehall. (I don't know if they used abacuses, but whatever they did use, they were using them.)
About Tuesday 31 July 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
PART 2
"Bourne was again at Deptford in January (1658), and whilst there was being harassed by the financial affairs at Harwich, the master shipwright continually forwarding the complaints he received, and asking for Bourne’s assistance. Receiving from the Admiralty a letter which roused his ire, he replied he would have waited on them had not public affairs detained him: “There are,” he said, “two bills of exchange for £714 drawn on you for cordage bought at Ipswich, and the contractors expect it. I am not accustomed to such language as I receive from you, and request an order for payment, and a bill of imprest for £450 for carrying on Naval affairs at Harwich, and ask it in the public interest.”
He was quieted for a time by the Admiralty instructing the Navy Office ... "
https://www.colonialsociety.org/n…
£300,000 then was many billions now? And things had only gone downhill since 1658.
Somewhere I have posted how much the Navy owed in 1660 -- but of course I can't find it now.
The vision of the Commonwealth was noble and worthy -- but things had deteriorated to the point they were so desperate, most of the power players were now willing to invite a King back, and agree to him making the decisions. Holding Charles II responsible for England's ills was preferable to another civil war.
About Tuesday 31 July 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Is this when P. realises how bad things are and the enormous task in front of him?"
Probably not, John. Lack of funds has been a problem for years. But maybe that's why Pepys is willing to sell his place -- knowing about and being responsible for are 2 different things.
From the Diary we know that
the Army riots were different unpaid factions and generals trying to take control of the country;
the Army hadn't been paid for about 3 years; Parliament fobbed them off with a couple of month's pay. Lots of angry fighting men out there now;
the reason there was no work for Pepys to do at the office was because there was no money -- lots of bills, yes, pay, no;
and he certainly knew Montagu had trouble finding enough seaworthy ships and willing sailors for the Spring fleet.
He's been spending time with Robert Blackborne and the out-going commissioners. The sort of stories they have probably shared is this excerpt describing the workings of the Navy Board in 1657-8:
"The Victualing Office in London still occupied much of his time; the pursers’ accounts for the ships home from Jamaica were scrutinized with the greatest care, claims for more than half rations for prisoners of war disputed, and where it was stated that extra rations had been ordered by the commanders to be issued to the seamen as an “encouragement,” it was only passed after approval by the Navy Office.
"The State Papers of this year contain many notes of Bills of Imprest, at first for £3,000 every 2 weeks and later rising to £4,000 a week, on the order of Majors Bourne and Thomson and Commissioner Willoughby, for carrying on the work of the Victualing Office. This department seems to have been the only one able to obtain adequate funds, but the imperative need of a regular supply of provisions and the inevitable consequences of failing to pay the contractors, left no alternative but to keep the department in funds.
"The debts of the navy were now £100,000 and its immediate needs £300,000, but Parliament refused to grant it unless the control of the militia was restored to them, and Cromwell, utterly refusing to allow the military power out of his own hands, in a fit of temper, dissolved Parliament.
"Such a situation did not ease the difficulties or improve the tempers of the Navy Commissioners, who were at once the butt between the seamen and dockyard workmen and the administration.
"Pensions of the sick and wounded were always in arrears; the men in the dockyard were unpaid and frequently complained that they were unable to obtain credit for the necessities of life.
"Commissioner Peter Pett had been obliged to leave Chatham for a time to get rid of the clamor of the unpaid poor.
About Links to sites
San Diego Sarah • Link
BRITISH CIVIL WAR PROJECT Website
http://bcw-project.org/resources
Great biographies and information about the major developments in the three 1650's civil wars.
About Tuesday 31 July 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"That was when everyone be euphoric over NEW future, now they have seen the King is copying Papa I and spending the merchants money on the pleasures of life , and not every one be happy to "coff" up."
I was wondering what evidence CGS has for saying this:
Charles and James are single men, and I don't think anyone would have thought twice about their flings:
Charles' courtship of the beautiful, young Mrs. Barbara Villiers Palmer certainly wasn't worthy of much notice;
Yes, he had bought The Happy Return and moored her in the Thames where he could see her, which was a bit extravagant;
They are refurnishing the Palace and getting some new clothes -- no surprise there, I think.
Charles seems to be working and doing Kingly things for his cronies to me -- plus keeping his foot firmly up the backsides of the houses of parliament, who don't seem eager to hold anyone accountable for his father's death.
What have I missed?
About Tuesday 31 July 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
I checked the House of Lords' roster for today, and Sandwich is missing, so it's reasonable to think he is chairing this meeting.
Many other Lords are also missing -- they really don't want to talk about the Act of Indemnity and Oblivion, do they!
Consequently, the Speaker (Chancellor Hyde today) ruled that everyone who is missing without prior leave will be fined 5 shillings, to be given to the poor.
Check out Phil's links, top right, to the Houses of Commons and Lords. They help to fill out the picture of what's going on and the conversation topics of the day. Often they will dictate what Pepys is doing.
About Tuesday 31 July 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Any idea why the Officers of the Navy Board would meet with Montagu at Whitehall, instead of at the Navy Office? ... I would have thought Montagu's new quarters at the Wardrobe would have made the Navy Office more convenient for him, too."
My thought was that the Lord High Admiral, James, Duke of York and the members of the Admiralty might have also been in this brain-storming session. And they are all anchored at Whitehall. Certainly the Exquechor was there, and so the money numbers might have been more available.
Then I saw James was presiding over the House of Lords today, along with Henry, Duke of Gloucester. Which doesn't mean he didn't leave for a couple of hours to meet with his navy men.
The timing is significant: The Supply bill was passed yesterday, so there were a lot of people sitting with their abacuses today, trying to figure out what the take might be next year.
@@@
Later we will find out that Jemima, Lady Sandwich has taken the quarters at the Wardrobe for her territory. Husbands and wives at their level often kept separate establishments in those days -- they made dates to see each other. (The King and Queen also did this -- people had their own courtiers, accounts and territories. Very civilized.)
As Terry said above, Sandwich had very generous quarters at Whitehall.
About Sunday 24 June 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
Great find, Stephane.
I can tell you why they had the canoe taken to King's Lynn -- same reason Charles II's landing barge is going there:
"The River Great Ouse (/uːz/) is a river in England, the longest of several British rivers called "Ouse". From Syresham in Northamptonshire, the Great Ouse flows through Buckinghamshire, Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and Norfolk to drain into the Wash and the North Sea near Kings Lynn." -- Google
The sailors/servants can then row/tow/sail it up the Ouse, with only a short land haul to Hinchingbrooke, where there is a sizeable lake, so it can be used by the children.
The roads were narrow and awful -- sea and river transportation was the preferred/cheapest/safest -- and possibly fastest -- mode.
About The Royal Society
San Diego Sarah • Link
'The Stamford Oath,' created by Edward III, limited English Universities -- but not Scottish ones:
Although all of these universities are included among the so-called "ancient universities" of Scotland, St. Andrews is the country's oldest, having been founded in 1413.
The University of Glasgow came next, in 1451,
followed by the University of Aberdeen in 1495
and the University of Edinburgh in 1583. -- Source: Scotland.org
We know Ireland had the venerable Trinity College in Dublin.
But Britain's oldest seat of advanced education was in Wales: It had 2,000 students, making it equal to Oxford or Cambridge, but before either of them: https://www.vaguelyinteresting.co…
Otherwise, Wales had to wait until the 18th century for the University College in Wales, Aberystwyth to be founded.
About Monday 30 July 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
I'm tempted to ask you what on earth you're talking about, Neil, but it will draw us into a conversation that has zilch to do Pepys or the text. I suspect you're frustrated by a local problem. It will be resolved, and 10 years from now we will have to annotate about that instead of Pepys or the text.
You mention bits of paper and metal flying around. Don't forget the wooden tally sticks -- https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
About Monday 30 July 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
A man who is a Sword Bearer thinks he's qualified to be Clerk of the Acts? Pepys seems to think he's out of his depth, and he's a recent University grad. How would a sword bearer handle it?
Doesn't bear thinking about what would have happened if Pepys had taken the money!
About Monday 30 July 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"This afternoon I got my 50/., due to me for my first quarter’s salary as Secretary to my Lord, ..."
That settles yesterday's idea from David Smith that Pepys was an independent contractor, much as I liked the explanation.
But where's the second quarter's money?
The settling up on 27 July must have been the official accounts from The Hague trip, which Sandwich approved. Pepys' salary was over and above that.
Pepys needs the money -- they've got to buy beds now Willoughby has taken his away, They must be sleeping on the floor????