The best site I know for interesting British Civil Wars information -- a lot more than Maj. Gen. Robert Overton -- is: http://bcw-project.org/biography/…
Sadly the websites listed above for information about Guilds and Livery Companies are both dead.
Encyclopedia . com says: "Twelve of them, according to an order of precedence established by Henry VIII, are known as the great companies — the Mercers, Grocers, Drapers, Fishmongers, Goldsmiths, Skinners, Merchant Taylors, Haberdashers, Salters, Ironmongers, Vintners, and Clothworkers."
See W. Herbert, The History of the Twelve Great Livery Companies of London (1937, repr. 1968); W. F. Kahl, The Development of London Livery Companies (1960); G. Unwin, The Guilds and Companies of London (4th ed. 1964). https://www.encyclopedia.com/hist…
A bobtail was the tail a horse which was cut short. Shakespeare uses the word in King Lear in 1605. Soon after, bobtail was used by John Fletcher, in Monsieur Thomas, 1619, as slang for a cur or contemptible rascal.
A tag was a piece of torn, hanging-down cloth. Those were combined with rag to form the earlier version of the phrase - tag, rag and bobtail. This was recorded by Samuel Pepys in his Diary for 6th March 1659: "The dining-room ... was full of tag, rag, and bobtail, dancing, singing, and drinking."
The later form 'raggle-taggle' is an extension of 'rag-tag'. This was in use from the end of the 19th century, for example, in Sabine Baring-Gould's novel, Urith: a tale of Dartmoor, 1891: "A raggle-taggle, beggarly crew."
A new dictionary of the terms ancient and modern of the canting crew, circa 1700, lists the definition of Riff-Raff as: "The Rabble or Scum of the People, Tagrag and Longtail"
For me it was his day avoiding the bayleys (I make more paragraphs to aid my comprehension). Sadly I can't post it all because it's twice as long as allowed, but if it amuses you, see the original entry! http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… Saturday 21 February 1663
Towards noon there comes a man in as if upon ordinary business, and shows me a writ from the Exchequer, called a Commission of Rebellion, and tells me that I am his prisoner in Field’s business; which methought did strike me to the heart, to think that we could not sit in the middle of the King’s business. I told him how and where we were employed, and bid him have a care; and perceiving that we were busy, he said he would, and did withdraw for an hour:
in which time Sir J. Minnes took coach and to Court, to see what he could do from thence; and our solicitor against Field came by chance and told me that he would go and satisfy the fees of the Court, and would end the business.
So he went away about that, and I stayed in my closet, till by and by the man and four more of his fellows came to know what I would do; I told them stay till I heard from the King or my Lord Chief Baron, to both whom I had now sent. With that they consulted, and told me that if I would promise to stay in the house they would go and refresh themselves, and come again, and know what answer I had: so they away,
and I home to dinner, whither by chance comes Mr. Hawley and dined with me. Before I had dined, the bayleys come back again with the constable, and at the office knock for me, but found me not there; and I hearing in what manner they were come, did forbear letting them know where I was; so they stood knocking and enquiring for me.
By and by at my parler-window comes Sir W. Batten’s Mungo, to tell me that his master and lady would have me come to their house through Sir J. Minnes’s lodgings, which I could not do; but, however, by ladders, did get over the pale between our yards, and so to their house, where I found them (as they have reason) to be much concerned for me, my lady especially.
The fellows stayed in the yard swearing with one or two constables, and some time we locked them into the yard, and by and by let them out again, and so kept them all the afternoon, not letting them see me, or know where I was. One time I went up to the top of Sir W. Batten’s house, and out of one of their windows spoke to my wife out of one of ours; which methought, though I did it in mirth, yet I was sad to think what a sad thing it would be for me to be really in that condition.
By and by comes Sir J. Minnes, who (like himself and all that he do) tells us that he can do no good, but that my Lord Chancellor wonders that we did not cause the seamen to fall about their ears: which we wished we could have done without our being seen in it; and Captain Grove being there, he did give them some affront, and would have got some seamen to have drubbed them, ...
Are you sure Pepys was the "Principal Officer" of the Navy Board? I missed that promotion.
I would have thought Brouncker had the best call on the title, partly because he's there all the time without portfolio, so he can stick his nose into anything he likes. The rest of the Navy Board all have areas of responsibility which they carry out with varying levels of (in)competence, including Pepys who has volunteered for so many extra-curricular appointments Brouncker for one think he's over-extended. His inability to balance his accounts this month makes me think Brouncker is correct,
According to "Tavern and Tokens of Pepys' London" by George Berry, the Salutation Tavern was in what is now Lower Monument Street. It was an old and prosperous tavern, probably the most important one in the area.
There was some bad verse about it in the Elizabethan broadsheet "News from Bartholomew Fair": "There hath been great sale and utterance of wine, Besides beer and ale and ipocras fine, In every county, region and nation, But chiefly in Billingsgate at the Salutation." https://books.google.com/books?id…
The Diary of Samuel Pepys, Vol. 10: Companion: Samuel Pepys, Robert Latham, William Matthews - 2001 - Biography & Autobiography Salutation, Billingsgate. Ancient and important tavern in Salutation Court, north out of (Lower) Thames St, between Love (Lovat) Lane and St Mary-at-Hill. Monument St, now covers its site. 16 hearths 1666 https://books.google.com/books?is…
"... and so home, where I found a new cook mayd, her name is ——- that promises very little."
So said Pepys on Wednesday 29 March 1665 -- and a year and a day later:
"... My wife and I mighty pleased with Jane’s coming to us again. Up, and away goes Alce, our cooke-mayde, a good servant, whom we loved and did well by her, and she an excellent servant, but would not bear being told of any faulte in the fewest and kindest words and would go away of her owne accord, after having given her mistresse warning fickly for a quarter of a yeare together."
"When Charles II returned to England at the Interregnum ..." should, of course, read: "When Charles II returned to England at the Restoration ..." Sorry!
Thanks Louise ... I should have known there was an easy way to find out, but the census department of the US Government would never have occurred to me to be the place to look.
Terry Foreman -- I'm greatly enjoying the Royal Society information that you have so meticulously included. It's fascinating, and illuminating. Thank you for your labor of love.
Apparently I've had it wrong all these years ... Lady Day is the first day of the New Year.
I saw this today: "In the 12th century Lady Day was considered the first day of the year and persisted until the official calendar change of 1752."
This is in an article about the Tichborne Dole (a village in Hampshire, near Cheriton, with a charming Lady Day tradition) which has zilch to do with Pepys, but you'll like it: https://www.historic-uk.com/Cultu…
'Uncharacteristically, Sam has failed to note that on this date in 1658 he was successfully "cut for the stone."'
Seems to me the war and the plague have taken Pepys' innocence. He no longer notes details like Elizabeth's time of the month, or when it's laundry day, or even Easter ... or celebrate his personal scrape with death. He's a harried middle management sort on the make. If it doesn't make him some money, it's a waste of money and time.
Or perhaps we are judging too fast -- maybe he'll party hearty in the next few days ...
"... as now to have Troutbecke, his old surgeon, and intended to go Surgeon-General of the fleete, to go Physician-General of the fleete, of which there never was any precedent in the world ..."
Evelyn's cries for help have not fallen on deaf ears, just helpless ones. My guess is that James and Charles have asked Troutbecke for his help improving their response to the inevitable slew of casualties expected this coming summer. A new hospital and a new Physician-General position are a substantial investment in care. Now to pay for it.
"England in 1600 had 4.2 million; by 1650, 5.5 million. As of 1700, it was down to 5.2 million (the really big growth didn't start until after 1750). ..."
This interesting graph showing the rise in populations of the major cities on the planet from 1500 to 2018 shows London as consistently growing. I guess it all depends on what you include in your calculation as being "London":
Galleries were long passageways often with windows where people could walk, talk and stay dry and reasonably warm during the winter months.
Many older houses, like Ham House near Richmond, were modified during the Puritan Interregnum using rooms that had been used for dancing or theater. At Ham, the Countess of Dysart cut a big oval in the middle of her dancing room floor which was located above her dining room. It made for a spectacular 2 storey dining room, and demonstrated her adoption of Puritan ethics (a good move since she was a Royalist spy on the quiet, and the Sealed Knot met here). The no-longer dancing room now opened onto a windowed passage, making the area into an interesting walking "gallery." I'm sure they hung paintings (which were now becoming available to the middling sort as well as rich people), and displayed their treasures from their travels as well. People then as now love to show off their stuff when they can.
Comments
Second Reading
About Maj.-Gen. Robert Overton
San Diego Sarah • Link
Robert Overton has a good biography on http://bcw-project.org/biography/…
About Tuesday 6 March 1659/60
San Diego Sarah • Link
Sadly the geocities site is also gone away.
The best site I know for interesting British Civil Wars information -- a lot more than Maj. Gen. Robert Overton -- is: http://bcw-project.org/biography/…
That should keep you busy for hours.
About Tuesday 6 March 1659/60
San Diego Sarah • Link
Sadly the websites listed above for information about Guilds and Livery Companies are both dead.
Encyclopedia . com says:
"Twelve of them, according to an order of precedence established by Henry VIII, are known as the great companies — the Mercers, Grocers, Drapers, Fishmongers, Goldsmiths, Skinners, Merchant Taylors, Haberdashers, Salters, Ironmongers, Vintners, and Clothworkers."
See W. Herbert, The History of the Twelve Great Livery Companies of London (1937, repr. 1968);
W. F. Kahl, The Development of London Livery Companies (1960);
G. Unwin, The Guilds and Companies of London (4th ed. 1964).
https://www.encyclopedia.com/hist…
About Tuesday 6 March 1659/60
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Tag, rag and bobtail":
A bobtail was the tail a horse which was cut short. Shakespeare uses the word in King Lear in 1605.
Soon after, bobtail was used by John Fletcher, in Monsieur Thomas, 1619, as slang for a cur or contemptible rascal.
A tag was a piece of torn, hanging-down cloth. Those were combined with rag to form the earlier version of the phrase - tag, rag and bobtail. This was recorded by Samuel Pepys in his Diary for 6th March 1659:
"The dining-room ... was full of tag, rag, and bobtail, dancing, singing, and drinking."
The later form 'raggle-taggle' is an extension of 'rag-tag'. This was in use from the end of the 19th century, for example, in Sabine Baring-Gould's novel, Urith: a tale of Dartmoor, 1891:
"A raggle-taggle, beggarly crew."
A new dictionary of the terms ancient and modern of the canting crew, circa 1700, lists the definition of Riff-Raff as:
"The Rabble or Scum of the People, Tagrag and Longtail"
The Phrase Finder -- https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanin…
About Queen's Chapel (St James' Palace)
San Diego Sarah • Link
Examples of the Elizabethan music of, plus some (Catholic) history of, Thomas Tallis and William Byrd:
https://aleteia.org/2019/03/28/th…
Thomas Tallis' “If Ye Love Me” is recorded in superb acoustics ... perhaps the Chapel Royal???
About What are your favourite diary moments?
San Diego Sarah • Link
For me it was his day avoiding the bayleys (I make more paragraphs to aid my comprehension). Sadly I can't post it all because it's twice as long as allowed, but if it amuses you, see the original entry!
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Saturday 21 February 1663
Towards noon there comes a man in as if upon ordinary business, and shows me a writ from the Exchequer, called a Commission of Rebellion, and tells me that I am his prisoner in Field’s business; which methought did strike me to the heart, to think that we could not sit in the middle of the King’s business. I told him how and where we were employed, and bid him have a care; and perceiving that we were busy, he said he would, and did withdraw for an hour:
in which time Sir J. Minnes took coach and to Court, to see what he could do from thence; and our solicitor against Field came by chance and told me that he would go and satisfy the fees of the Court, and would end the business.
So he went away about that, and I stayed in my closet, till by and by the man and four more of his fellows came to know what I would do; I told them stay till I heard from the King or my Lord Chief Baron, to both whom I had now sent. With that they consulted, and told me that if I would promise to stay in the house they would go and refresh themselves, and come again, and know what answer I had: so they away,
and I home to dinner, whither by chance comes Mr. Hawley and dined with me. Before I had dined, the bayleys come back again with the constable, and at the office knock for me, but found me not there; and I hearing in what manner they were come, did forbear letting them know where I was; so they stood knocking and enquiring for me.
By and by at my parler-window comes Sir W. Batten’s Mungo, to tell me that his master and lady would have me come to their house through Sir J. Minnes’s lodgings, which I could not do; but, however, by ladders, did get over the pale between our yards, and so to their house, where I found them (as they have reason) to be much concerned for me, my lady especially.
The fellows stayed in the yard swearing with one or two constables, and some time we locked them into the yard, and by and by let them out again, and so kept them all the afternoon, not letting them see me, or know where I was. One time I went up to the top of Sir W. Batten’s house, and out of one of their windows spoke to my wife out of one of ours; which methought, though I did it in mirth, yet I was sad to think what a sad thing it would be for me to be really in that condition.
By and by comes Sir J. Minnes, who (like himself and all that he do) tells us that he can do no good, but that my Lord Chancellor wonders that we did not cause the seamen to fall about their ears: which we wished we could have done without our being seen in it; and Captain Grove being there, he did give them some affront, and would have got some seamen to have drubbed them, ...
About Monday 26 March 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
Are you sure Pepys was the "Principal Officer" of the Navy Board? I missed that promotion.
I would have thought Brouncker had the best call on the title, partly because he's there all the time without portfolio, so he can stick his nose into anything he likes. The rest of the Navy Board all have areas of responsibility which they carry out with varying levels of (in)competence, including Pepys who has volunteered for so many extra-curricular appointments Brouncker for one think he's over-extended. His inability to balance his accounts this month makes me think Brouncker is correct,
About Salutation (Billingsgate)
San Diego Sarah • Link
According to "Tavern and Tokens of Pepys' London" by George Berry, the Salutation Tavern was in what is now Lower Monument Street. It was an old and prosperous tavern, probably the most important one in the area.
There was some bad verse about it in the Elizabethan broadsheet "News from Bartholomew Fair": "There hath been great sale and utterance of wine,
Besides beer and ale and ipocras fine,
In every county, region and nation,
But chiefly in Billingsgate at the Salutation."
https://books.google.com/books?id…
The Diary of Samuel Pepys, Vol. 10: Companion: Samuel Pepys, Robert Latham, William Matthews - 2001 - Biography & Autobiography
Salutation, Billingsgate. Ancient and important tavern in Salutation Court, north out of (Lower) Thames St, between Love (Lovat) Lane and St Mary-at-Hill. Monument St, now covers its site. 16 hearths 1666
https://books.google.com/books?is…
In the 1700's it is listed as a meeting place for Freemason meetings:
https://books.google.com/books?id…
About Alice (Pepys' cookmaid)
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... and so home, where I found a new cook mayd, her name is ——- that promises very little."
So said Pepys on Wednesday 29 March 1665 -- and a year and a day later:
"... My wife and I mighty pleased with Jane’s coming to us again. Up, and away goes Alce, our cooke-mayde, a good servant, whom we loved and did well by her, and she an excellent servant, but would not bear being told of any faulte in the fewest and kindest words and would go away of her owne accord, after having given her mistresse warning fickly for a quarter of a yeare together."
About Ald. Robert Vyner
San Diego Sarah • Link
"When Charles II returned to England at the Interregnum ..." should, of course, read:
"When Charles II returned to England at the Restoration ..."
Sorry!
About Sunday 25 March 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
Thanks Louise ... I should have known there was an easy way to find out, but the census department of the US Government would never have occurred to me to be the place to look.
About Wednesday 28 March 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
Terry Foreman -- I'm greatly enjoying the Royal Society information that you have so meticulously included. It's fascinating, and illuminating. Thank you for your labor of love.
About Tuesday 27 March 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... I thought of another way, though not so perfect, yet the only one which this account is capable of."
Pepys has discovered the fertile world of Alternative Facts. He is always ahead of his time.
About Sunday 25 March 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
Apparently I've had it wrong all these years ... Lady Day is the first day of the New Year.
I saw this today:
"In the 12th century Lady Day was considered the first day of the year and persisted until the official calendar change of 1752."
This is in an article about the Tichborne Dole (a village in Hampshire, near Cheriton, with a charming Lady Day tradition) which has zilch to do with Pepys, but you'll like it:
https://www.historic-uk.com/Cultu…
About Monday 26 March 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
'Uncharacteristically, Sam has failed to note that on this date in 1658 he was successfully "cut for the stone."'
Seems to me the war and the plague have taken Pepys' innocence. He no longer notes details like Elizabeth's time of the month, or when it's laundry day, or even Easter ... or celebrate his personal scrape with death. He's a harried middle management sort on the make. If it doesn't make him some money, it's a waste of money and time.
Or perhaps we are judging too fast -- maybe he'll party hearty in the next few days ...
About Sunday 25 March 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
Anyone know when Easter was in 1665-66?
Yesterday is displayed Saturday 24 March 1665/66
Today is displayed Sunday 25 March 1666
Did Phil make a mistake, or has Pepys' become so God-less he not only did not go to church, but he didn't even mention the start of the "new year"?
About Wednesday 21 March 1665/66
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... as now to have Troutbecke, his old surgeon, and intended to go Surgeon-General of the fleete, to go Physician-General of the fleete, of which there never was any precedent in the world ..."
Evelyn's cries for help have not fallen on deaf ears, just helpless ones. My guess is that James and Charles have asked Troutbecke for his help improving their response to the inevitable slew of casualties expected this coming summer. A new hospital and a new Physician-General position are a substantial investment in care. Now to pay for it.
About Saturday 6 February 1663/64
San Diego Sarah • Link
"England in 1600 had 4.2 million; by 1650, 5.5 million. As of 1700, it was down to 5.2 million (the really big growth didn't start until after 1750). ..."
This interesting graph showing the rise in populations of the major cities on the planet from 1500 to 2018 shows London as consistently growing. I guess it all depends on what you include in your calculation as being "London":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k…
About Wednesday 21 March 1665/66
San Diego Sarah • Link
Terry let me know that "vere" means "truly" ... apparently the Secretary of the Royal Society was confused.
About Monday 19 March 1665/66
San Diego Sarah • Link
Galleries were long passageways often with windows where people could walk, talk and stay dry and reasonably warm during the winter months.
Many older houses, like Ham House near Richmond, were modified during the Puritan Interregnum using rooms that had been used for dancing or theater. At Ham, the Countess of Dysart cut a big oval in the middle of her dancing room floor which was located above her dining room. It made for a spectacular 2 storey dining room, and demonstrated her adoption of Puritan ethics (a good move since she was a Royalist spy on the quiet, and the Sealed Knot met here). The no-longer dancing room now opened onto a windowed passage, making the area into an interesting walking "gallery." I'm sure they hung paintings (which were now becoming available to the middling sort as well as rich people), and displayed their treasures from their travels as well. People then as now love to show off their stuff when they can.