"I dined with Sir W. Batten and my Lady, they being now a’days very fond of me."
Yet on 7 Feb. 1665: "I am at a loss," writes Pepys, "whether it will be better for me to have him die, because he is a bad man, or live, for fear a worse should come."
What a difference two weeks can make. Pepys must have done something. There are so many stories missing from the diary.
Or perhaps, Sasha, he didn't know how. There were no standard accounting procedures taught at business school back then -- I'm not sure they had even figured out double entry bookkeeping, never mind P&L accounts.
When Charles II came back, presumably there was a "clean sweep" of Puritans out of the offices -- and not everyone who escaped the cuts was disposed to do a good job. Pepys became aware that the Navy Board accounts were unhelpful a year ago, and sought out a better system. After he saw Auditor Beale's standards, he took Treasurer Carteret to take a look, and presumably they adopted those standards. (Always a good idea to know what the Auditor wants!) SEE https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Povy was too dumb, lazy, cheap or incompetent to get organized. Maybe the Tangier Committee didn't fund an assistant and he wouldn't use his own money to stay out of trouble. Whatever the reasons, I'm sure he regretted it by now.
Terry speculates about a Catholic intrigue leading to Secretary Bennet telling Ormonde that Col. Richard Talbot is to be released.
Talbot was made a gentleman of James, Duke of York's bedchamber at the Restoration; that didn't last long because he was imprisoned for challenging James Butler, Duke of Ormonde, to a duel in 1661. So Talbot's been locked up for about 4 years, and this was probably a courtesy note so Butler can keep an eye out for him in case Talbot tries anything.
Terry may knows more about this, but why would Charles II play into the hand of the Irish rebels? Talbot was a spokesman of the Irish Roman Catholics and made trouble for decades.
OED: 2. Any form of alcoholic spirits used as a beverage. Now only in pl. (somewhat arch.). a1613 Overbury Wife, etc. (1638) 178 His new Trade of brewing Strong-Waters makes a number of mad-men. 1624 Capt. Smith Virginia iv. 160 After, with warme clothes and a little strong water, they had a little recouered him. 1687 Relat. De Chaumont's Embassy Siam 23 Eleven Barks full of Oxen, Sheep, and Strong-water made with rice.
In Pepys time "strong water" was also used as an English translation of aquafortis, or nitric acid. If anyone had drunk that, they would be dead.
"... I would do her business, which was to write a letter to my Lord Sandwich for her husband’s advance into a better ship as there should be occasion. Which I did, ..."
Adm Sir John Lawson -- Per L&M Companion: "... He was particularly concerned with Tangier as one of the contractors for the mole." This incident isn't mentioned in LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES, but Lawson about this time has given away half his fortune as dowry for his oldest daughter, so he is probably fund-raising just like Pepys. Bird of a feather.
Physical condition: Original. Addressed to Lord Sandwich, on board 'the London', in the Downs.
Title: Phineas Ellwood and Benjamin Harrison to Sandwich: written from Sandwich
Description: Explain their views as to the estimated cost of the proposed Improvement of Sandwich Harbours, and answer certain objections to former Estimates. Mention the ultimate advantage to the Nation at large of the project, when carried out, especially in the probable event of War with Holland. Enter, at length, into the details of Plans prepared and of the Taxation by which it is proposed to defray the charges.
Captain Ellwood adds, by way of P.S., that in the autumn of 1639 the Spaniards remained in the Downs more than five weeks (the English ships being wind-bound).
My take is that the morning meeting revealed shoe boxes full of records and Povy without the foggiest idea of what Tangier's financial situation was. In the evening Pepys pops into the Battens' and is greeted with accolades because the Admirals appreciated what good work he did when he persuaded Treasurer Carteret to change the Navy Board's accounting system, and although Pepys is frequently a PITA in meetings, he is always prepared with reports and figures to back up his opinion. No shoe boxes at the Navy Board. Pepys knows it's Carteret, Hewer and the other clerks who are responsible for keeping up the system which enables him to shine, so he feels modest about it.
Journal of Edward Montagu edited by Anderson for 18th February 1665:
"A fine sunshine day, little wind at N and NW, but cold, This day about noon Colonel Belasis came on board me with a letter from my Lord Belasis with reference to his transportation to Tangier."
from L&M Companion ... John Belasyse, 1st Baron Belasyse (1614 - 1689) has two sons who appear in the diary, principally as duelists: -- Sir Henry, his eldest, -- and John.
Sir Henry, an Anglican convert, was Captain of foot for the Hull garrison Oct. 1660-1662, and 1665-d. -- from The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1660-1690,
So this is probably the Capt. Belasis in charge of his father's trip to Tangier.
Journal of Edward Montagu edited by Anderson for 18th February 1665:
"A fine sunshine day, little wind at N and NW, but cold, This day about noon Colonel Belasis came on board me with a letter from my Lord Belasis with reference to his transportation to Tangier."
from L&M Companion ... John Belasyse, 1st Baron Belasyse (1614 - 1689) has two sons who appear in the diary, principally as duelists -- Sir Henry, his eldest, -- and John.
Sir Henry, an Anglican convert, was Captain of foot for the Hull garrison Oct. 1660-1662, and 1665-d. -- from The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1660-1690,
So this is probably the Capt. Belasis in charge of his father's trip to Tangier.
"Lord George Berkeley, mechanical contriver, FRS and plantations magnate, is apparently Povey's chief irritant."
I'm not sure the link should be to George Berkeley, who never fought anyone for anything so far as I can tell. I nominate Sir John, 1st Baron Berkeley of Stratton, until recently a Commissioner of the Navy Board, who had fought his way through several wars by now.
True ... I suppose it makes a difference if they have a son eager to take over the junior title. Which begs another question/thought: Why change the name at all, especially for hereditary titles? Did becoming the 20th Earl of Oxford improve or change Aubrey de Vere's behavior? No. It just seems to increase their sense of entitlement. I'm surprised a social climber like Pepys didn't call FitzHarding 'Falmouth' anyways, just to be totally correct. Or did he not do it to show himself one of the 'in' crowd? Who knows. It's an odd system at best.
Good night Sasha ... shortly to be Good Morning to you!
Mrs. Batters -- Wife of gunner, later Capt., Christopher Batters. She is often invited to dine with the Pepys, and recommends a cook to them. By 1666 Pepys says "... he and she have been and full of kindness to their power to my wife and I" so we can assume not all their interactions are recorded in the Diary. The Batters had at least one daughter.
Mrs. Batters -- Wife of gunner, later Capt., Christopher Batters. She is often invited to dine with the Pepys, and recommends a cook to them. By 1666 Pepys says "... he and she have been and full of kindness to their power to my wife and I" so we can assume not all their interactions are recorded in the Diary. The Batters had at least one daughter.
"Here excellent discourse till ten at night, and then home, and to Sir W. Batten’s, ..."
Are you kidding? How could it be other than an afternoon and dinner of EXCELLENT discourse with that group of people? Oh to be a fly on the wall! Then home (by coach, I bet) to find there's a party over at the Batten's. Which ignores his drunken lunch with all those Sirs and rich merchants.
This was a day from heaven for Mr. Social Climber Pepys. (I know -- he did it for the King and England.) I bet he was wearing his red suit with fur lined cloak. And I also bet he kept his hat on -- all day.
Oh, the Isles of Scilly is the graveyard of many fine ships over the centuries. There are hundreds of rocks and islands in the chain which stretch over hundreds of miles. If a ship needed six weeks of quarantine before docking in England, this is one place they could stay. Lots of fresh water, fresh food and safe moorings.
This wreck is listed as: 1665 18 January — while on her first voyage home from the Moluccas and Bantam to London, the East Indiaman ship Royal Oak (British East India Company flag.svg British East India Company) was lost (probably) on Pednathise Head in the Western Rocks. Some of the crew managed to abandon ship and took to a ″low rock″ where they were rescued 52 hours later. She was carrying peppercorns, cloth and porcelain.
So there were not only special churches but also "houses" of refreshment in and around London for people from different countries. Perhaps the Dutchmen Pepys talked with were "Orange" Dutchmen, and not followers of de Witt? (Just as the United Provinces had been full of Royalists, but not Commonwealthers, during the Interregnum.) The young Prince Willem who became England's William III was very young at this time, and de Witt's people were running the country as a Republic, which was one reason Charles II didn't mind attacking them ... he was protecting his young nephew's interests.
Comments
Second Reading
About Tuesday 21 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
"I dined with Sir W. Batten and my Lady, they being now a’days very fond of me."
Yet on 7 Feb. 1665: "I am at a loss," writes Pepys, "whether it will be better for me to have him die, because he is a bad man, or live, for fear a worse should come."
What a difference two weeks can make. Pepys must have done something. There are so many stories missing from the diary.
About Thursday 19 January 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
Smart, wealthy, over-committed people usually hire help. Which is why this situation is so fascinating, puzzling and bizarre 350 years later.
About Thursday 19 January 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
Or perhaps, Sasha, he didn't know how. There were no standard accounting procedures taught at business school back then -- I'm not sure they had even figured out double entry bookkeeping, never mind P&L accounts.
When Charles II came back, presumably there was a "clean sweep" of Puritans out of the offices -- and not everyone who escaped the cuts was disposed to do a good job. Pepys became aware that the Navy Board accounts were unhelpful a year ago, and sought out a better system. After he saw Auditor Beale's standards, he took Treasurer Carteret to take a look, and presumably they adopted those standards. (Always a good idea to know what the Auditor wants!) SEE https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Povy was too dumb, lazy, cheap or incompetent to get organized. Maybe the Tangier Committee didn't fund an assistant and he wouldn't use his own money to stay out of trouble. Whatever the reasons, I'm sure he regretted it by now.
About Tuesday 21 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
Terry speculates about a Catholic intrigue leading to Secretary Bennet telling Ormonde that Col. Richard Talbot is to be released.
Talbot was made a gentleman of James, Duke of York's bedchamber at the Restoration; that didn't last long because he was imprisoned for challenging James Butler, Duke of Ormonde, to a duel in 1661. So Talbot's been locked up for about 4 years, and this was probably a courtesy note so Butler can keep an eye out for him in case Talbot tries anything.
Terry may knows more about this, but why would Charles II play into the hand of the Irish rebels? Talbot was a spokesman of the Irish Roman Catholics and made trouble for decades.
About Strong water
San Diego Sarah • Link
strong water:
OED: 2. Any form of alcoholic spirits used as a beverage. Now only in pl. (somewhat arch.).
a1613 Overbury Wife, etc. (1638) 178 His new Trade of brewing Strong-Waters makes a number of mad-men.
1624 Capt. Smith Virginia iv. 160 After, with warme clothes and a little strong water, they had a little recouered him.
1687 Relat. De Chaumont's Embassy Siam 23 Eleven Barks full of Oxen, Sheep, and Strong-water made with rice.
In Pepys time "strong water" was also used as an English translation of aquafortis, or nitric acid. If anyone had drunk that, they would be dead.
About Monday 20 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... I would do her business, which was to write a letter to my Lord Sandwich for her husband’s advance into a better ship as there should be occasion. Which I did, ..."
I take it this letter no longer exists?
About Monday 20 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
Adm Sir John Lawson -- Per L&M Companion: "... He was particularly concerned with Tangier as one of the contractors for the mole." This incident isn't mentioned in LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES, but Lawson about this time has given away half his fortune as dowry for his oldest daughter, so he is probably fund-raising just like Pepys. Bird of a feather.
About Monday 20 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
Nothing about Capt Phineas Ellwood in our encyclopedia, but we have heard of him before:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
6 September 1664
MS. Carte 75, fol(s). 214-215
Physical condition: Original. Addressed to Lord Sandwich, on board 'the London', in the Downs.
Title: Phineas Ellwood and Benjamin Harrison to Sandwich: written from Sandwich
Description: Explain their views as to the estimated cost of the proposed Improvement of Sandwich Harbours, and answer certain objections to former Estimates. Mention the ultimate advantage to the Nation at large of the project, when carried out, especially in the probable event of War with Holland. Enter, at length, into the details of Plans prepared and of the Taxation by which it is proposed to defray the charges.
Captain Ellwood adds, by way of P.S., that in the autumn of 1639 the Spaniards remained in the Downs more than five weeks (the English ships being wind-bound).
About Tuesday 17 January 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
My take is that the morning meeting revealed shoe boxes full of records and Povy without the foggiest idea of what Tangier's financial situation was. In the evening Pepys pops into the Battens' and is greeted with accolades because the Admirals appreciated what good work he did when he persuaded Treasurer Carteret to change the Navy Board's accounting system, and although Pepys is frequently a PITA in meetings, he is always prepared with reports and figures to back up his opinion. No shoe boxes at the Navy Board. Pepys knows it's Carteret, Hewer and the other clerks who are responsible for keeping up the system which enables him to shine, so he feels modest about it.
SEE http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
About Saturday 18 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
Journal of Edward Montagu edited by Anderson for 18th February 1665:
"A fine sunshine day, little wind at N and NW, but cold,
This day about noon Colonel Belasis came on board me with a letter from my Lord Belasis with reference to his transportation to Tangier."
from L&M Companion ... John Belasyse, 1st Baron Belasyse (1614 - 1689) has two sons who appear in the diary, principally as duelists:
-- Sir Henry, his eldest,
-- and John.
Sir Henry, an Anglican convert, was Captain of foot for the Hull garrison Oct. 1660-1662, and 1665-d. -- from The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1660-1690,
So this is probably the Capt. Belasis in charge of his father's trip to Tangier.
About Sir Henry Belasyse
San Diego Sarah • Link
Journal of Edward Montagu edited by Anderson for 18th February 1665:
"A fine sunshine day, little wind at N and NW, but cold,
This day about noon Colonel Belasis came on board me with a letter from my Lord Belasis with reference to his transportation to Tangier."
from L&M Companion ... John Belasyse, 1st Baron Belasyse (1614 - 1689) has two sons who appear in the diary, principally as duelists
-- Sir Henry, his eldest,
-- and John.
Sir Henry, an Anglican convert, was Captain of foot for the Hull garrison Oct. 1660-1662, and 1665-d. -- from The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1660-1690,
So this is probably the Capt. Belasis in charge of his father's trip to Tangier.
About Saturday 31 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
Very nice, Chris!
About Friday 17 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Lord George Berkeley, mechanical contriver, FRS and plantations magnate, is apparently Povey's chief irritant."
I'm not sure the link should be to George Berkeley, who never fought anyone for anything so far as I can tell. I nominate Sir John, 1st Baron Berkeley of Stratton, until recently a Commissioner of the Navy Board, who had fought his way through several wars by now.
About Sunday 15 January 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
True ... I suppose it makes a difference if they have a son eager to take over the junior title. Which begs another question/thought: Why change the name at all, especially for hereditary titles? Did becoming the 20th Earl of Oxford improve or change Aubrey de Vere's behavior? No. It just seems to increase their sense of entitlement. I'm surprised a social climber like Pepys didn't call FitzHarding 'Falmouth' anyways, just to be totally correct. Or did he not do it to show himself one of the 'in' crowd? Who knows. It's an odd system at best.
Good night Sasha ... shortly to be Good Morning to you!
About Mrs Batters
San Diego Sarah • Link
Mrs. Batters -- Wife of gunner, later Capt., Christopher Batters. She is often invited to dine with the Pepys, and recommends a cook to them. By 1666 Pepys says "... he and she have been and full of kindness to their power to my wife and I" so we can assume not all their interactions are recorded in the Diary. The Batters had at least one daughter.
About Mrs Batters
San Diego Sarah • Link
Mrs. Batters -- Wife of gunner, later Capt., Christopher Batters. She is often invited to dine with the Pepys, and recommends a cook to them. By 1666 Pepys says "... he and she have been and full of kindness to their power to my wife and I" so we can assume not all their interactions are recorded in the Diary. The Batters had at least one daughter.
About Wednesday 15 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Here excellent discourse till ten at night, and then home, and to Sir W. Batten’s, ..."
Are you kidding? How could it be other than an afternoon and dinner of EXCELLENT discourse with that group of people? Oh to be a fly on the wall! Then home (by coach, I bet) to find there's a party over at the Batten's. Which ignores his drunken lunch with all those Sirs and rich merchants.
This was a day from heaven for Mr. Social Climber Pepys. (I know -- he did it for the King and England.) I bet he was wearing his red suit with fur lined cloak. And I also bet he kept his hat on -- all day.
About Wednesday 15 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
Oh, the Isles of Scilly is the graveyard of many fine ships over the centuries. There are hundreds of rocks and islands in the chain which stretch over hundreds of miles. If a ship needed six weeks of quarantine before docking in England, this is one place they could stay. Lots of fresh water, fresh food and safe moorings.
For a full(er) list of wrecks, go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis…
This wreck is listed as:
1665 18 January — while on her first voyage home from the Moluccas and Bantam to London, the East Indiaman ship Royal Oak (British East India Company flag.svg British East India Company) was lost (probably) on Pednathise Head in the Western Rocks. Some of the crew managed to abandon ship and took to a ″low rock″ where they were rescued 52 hours later. She was carrying peppercorns, cloth and porcelain.
About Wednesday 15 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Coventry's mission: "Br. For. Policy, 1660-1672" Keith G. Feiling, page 191 http://books.google.com/books?id=…... "
Anyone know what this says? I don't feel like paying $99 to find out what's on one page.
About Monday 13 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
So there were not only special churches but also "houses" of refreshment in and around London for people from different countries. Perhaps the Dutchmen Pepys talked with were "Orange" Dutchmen, and not followers of de Witt? (Just as the United Provinces had been full of Royalists, but not Commonwealthers, during the Interregnum.) The young Prince Willem who became England's William III was very young at this time, and de Witt's people were running the country as a Republic, which was one reason Charles II didn't mind attacking them ... he was protecting his young nephew's interests.