"An issue with a long history prior to its being listed as a grievance in 1776 in the US Declaration of Independence
"Commons considers Quartering Soldiers."
It wasn't just the corporation of Windsor suffering from the cost of supporting 300 Parlimentary soldiers awaiting discharge.
A couple of other things struck me abour today's Parliamentary debates: 1. Sandwich has avoided attending the House of Lords consistently. I wonder why -- Hyde is there, Monck is there, his peers are there. It's not good to be missing in action without a good excuse -- like being at sea.
And 2. today Wentworth Dillon, the Earl of Roscommon's petition to have his title and lands restoreds as they were in January, 1649 was introduced. This will effect the course of Pepys' friend's life, Col. Cary Dillon. https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Suggestion: Instead of typing out the ambiguous "pounds", why don't we type "lbs." -- and if you don't have the "£" symbol on your keyboard, do as Pepys does and type "/.".
(Elsewhere I have found one 'translation' by a non-English person who typed lbs. when the context clearly indicated £. Let's give the foreigners a fighting chance!)
Or a Cornish Pasty, RLB. This concerns the scale of the pie, and that you don't eat the crust, just the innerds. Nor do you find a whole dead swan posed on top of your pork pie or pasty these days, fortunately.
in 2023 MartinVT observed that Sir W. Batten hangs out at the Dolphin Inn frequently. Pepys mentions going to see him at The Dolphin several times in the Diary. https://www.pepysdiary.com/annota…
In "London, Past and Present" H.B. Wheatley tells this story: By the beginning of the 17th century Bethlehem Hospital had become one of the London sights, and it so continued till the last quarter of the 18th century. In Webster's "Westward Ho!" (1607), some of the characters, to pass the time while their horses are being saddled at "the Dolphin, Without Bishopsgate," resolve to "crossover" the road "to Bedlam, to see what Greeks are within," and a highly comic scene ensues. One of the party happening to turn his back, the rest persuade the keeper that their friend is a lunatic, that his "pericranium is perished."
So The Dolphin was close to Seething Lane, and they rented out horses. That would be a convenient place for the Navy Commissioners to rent horses as needed, just as we rent cars.
MartinVT later noted that the Dolphin Inn on Thames Street was a much- visited local Inn by Pepys and Adm. Batten -- and probably more of the Navy gang -- and Wheatley tells us they stabled horses there. I'm happy -- that's where Pepys and Penn got their horses today. https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
in 2023 MartinVT observed that Sir W. Batten hangs out at the Dolphin just about every night. Pepys mentions going to see him at The Dolphin several times in the diary. https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
In "London, Past and Present" H.B. Wheatley tells this story: By the beginning of the 17th century Bethlehem Hospital had become one of the London sights, and it so continued till the last quarter of the 18th century. In Webster's Westward Ho! (1607), some of the characters, to pass the time while their horses are being saddled at "the Dolphin, Without Bishopsgate," resolve to "crossover" the road "to Bedlam, to see what Greeks are within," and a highly comic scene ensues. One of the party happening to turn his back, the rest persuade the keeper that their friend is a lunatic, that his "pericranium is perished."
So it was close to Seething Lane, and rented out horses. Ah-Ha.
The goose was also a symbol of what was lost to the enclosure program that enriched the nobility and made the villagers poor:
“Stealing the Common from the Goose”
The law locks up the man or woman Who steals the goose off the common But leaves the greater villain loose Who steals the common from the goose.
The law demands that we atone When we take things we do not own But leaves the lords and ladies fine Who takes things that are yours and mine.
The poor and wretched don’t escape If they conspire the law to break; This must be so but they endure Those who conspire to make the law.
The law locks up the man or woman Who steals the goose from off the common And geese will still a common lack Till they go and steal it back. -- Anon. 17th century poem.
It appears in OnTheCommon’s book, "Celebrating the Commons: People, Ideas and Stories for a New Year".
"Take some rose water, vinegar, & salt, & boil them all together in pure water. Of this you take two glasses, & mixing within [one] twice-milled flour, or semola as you like to say, you rub your whole person. Then wash yourself with the remainder: that you will not feel any residue, that it serves the further use as it were to cleanse your body.
"There are some, for whom the odoriferous bath is very useful, so that in the water, in which they want to bathe, they pour in a small jug of water mixed with four or six drops of lavender oil. After that, if one wishes to have a stronger scent; you will have to add some of these things; they are musk, amber, civet, camphor, aloe wood, sweet benjamin, styrax, myrrh, carnations, roses, the bark, flower & leaves of cedar, lemons, oranges, jasmine flowers, laurel fronds, common olive herbs; also such as rosemary, lavender, mint, pennyroyal, & others like them, which only combine through boiling.
"But, when you have prepared the bath; beware, if your beauty is dear to you; that it is not too hot; because your skin would be burned, so that your body would give birth to ailments, & worries. And, since you will be entered in the vessel prepared for it; if you like, you can remove unwanted hair with the following medications."
To the kitchen! Every summer my mother used to make rose water; sadly she didn't pass along the recipe.
Of course, it wasn't just the British who had hygiene problems.
In Venice, Giovanni Marinelli published a book "Gli Ornamenti delle Donne" [The Ornaments of Women] in 1562. The chapter quotes below come from the 1574 edition.
His book was sold alongside the first edition of Marinelli’s "Le medicine partenenti alle infirmità delle donne" [Medicines pertinent to the illnesses of women] which was also released in 1574, and, presumably at the same time, in the shop of Giovanni Valgrisio. The shop was fittingly located at the “Sign of the Victory” in Venice.
The title pages of the books display the mark of the expatriate French printer Vincenza Valgrisi who, in 1570, was fined for publishing prohibited books. Giovanni was probably his son and may have realized that specializing in women's publications was safer and less expensive than his father’s specialty.
"Now, if your body will be free of dirt, & clean; wanting to dispose it toward a better and more attractive ornament than that which it has sustained either through nature or through infirmity, before you proceed to anything else, use the following bath.
"Take a handful of sage leaves, & likewise lavender flowers, roses, & a little bit of salt, which you boil in plain water, or common mineral water. Next you wash your whole person, keeping in mind not to get wet after the meal: because it will cause you very great infirmities. But two hours before food, it comforts the nerves, removes the odor of sweat from the whole body, & of each part of it: it consoles the spirits, & makes them better disposed. The which benefits you will similarly get from the following.
'Given Pall's "ill-nature" and the weeping for joy, my guess is that things are less than harmonious in the old Pepys' family home and everyone is looking for an exit before dastardly deed are done.'
One of the first mentions of Pall in the Diary is when she stole scissors from Elizabeth and Jane Birch's book, and Pepys had to retrieve them. https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Resentful young women with zero prospects can be a handful. It's kind of Sam and Elizabeth to give her a second chance. So she starts out as a maid -- if she shapes up, good things might happen. If not, if no one else in the family will take her, hit the road kid.
The 3,000/. -- my bet it was gold coins, which would fit in a trunk, and would warrant locking up.
It could have been a Bill of Exchange, but that would not justify using Jack Spicer's chest. Phil posted a picture of a Bill of Exchange that Pepys signed: https://www.pepysdiary.com/indept…
Does anyone have any idea what Rev. Ralph is talking about: "Sr J. Jacob . in 56. in arrears 6 year. being. 24 received since 10li. there is due of that 14 and to Sept. 29. 1660. four years more being in all. 16. besides. 14."?
I'm guessing Sir John Jacob was 6 years in arrears on field 56. From there on??? And what business it was of the Rev., I have no idea. Since it's not 'The Diary', who cares? But if it's country code for something you know about, I'm interested.
Wonderful link, London Miss -- I love the disclaimer at the top of the page warning us that the science may not be up-to-date and that some of the language may offend today's audience. Robert Hooke lived a scandalous life by our standards, but I doubt it's recorded in the attached pages. The Wellcome Trust does good works.
Thank you 3Lamps -- you brought back my joy at being gifted a set of L&M -- they will increase your enjoyment of the Diaries. Can't wait to hear your joy when you crack open the Companion!
"... the hog that I saw a fattening the other day at her house ..."
So they personal lots as well as the communal garden??? The Pepys' goose he bought yesterday, if live, must be out there now? If dead, it's probably aging in the basement for a few days. https://www.gundogmag.com/editori…
"... there came after us Sir W. Penn, Mr. Davis, and his eldest son."
Fortunately "Lady" Jane Davis didn't come to church today, but I won my private bet -- they have a teenage son. Another opportunity for Pepys and Davis Snr. to sit together as colleagues, craftily engineered by the Sir Williams.
"... Dr. Thomas Pepys, who my wife told me after I was come home, that he had told my brother Thomas that he loved my wife so well that if she had a child he would never marry, but leave all that he had to my child, ..." "Surely an odd comment, unless this was some common expression?"
An odd comment, yes, but it was intended as a compliment, and if true, Pepys and Elizabeth should know that this was a generous sentiment they might want to follow up on.
We are so used to pregnancy being voluntary and sometimes assisted by the medical profession that it's hard for us to comprehend how much pressure there was back in the day to perpetuate the family and the human race. This was Elizabeth's role in life, and that she and Sam had not taken care of business yet was strange to their relatives. This could be Uncle Thomas' way of keeping his money and property in the family. We know Elizabeth was gorgeous, young and a little bit exotic. Clearly Uncle Thomas enjoyed looking at her. C'est la vie! (Ask him over for Christmas lunch, Elizabeth. The old bachelor needs attention.)
Comments
Third Reading
About Sir William Mountagu
San Diego Sarah • Link
L&M: William Montagu MP was Sandwich's principal legal advisor.
About Thursday 15 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"An issue with a long history prior to its being listed as a grievance in 1776 in the US Declaration of Independence
"Commons considers Quartering Soldiers."
It wasn't just the corporation of Windsor suffering from the cost of supporting 300 Parlimentary soldiers awaiting discharge.
A couple of other things struck me abour today's Parliamentary debates:
1. Sandwich has avoided attending the House of Lords consistently.
I wonder why -- Hyde is there, Monck is there, his peers are there. It's not good to be missing in action without a good excuse -- like being at sea.
And 2. today Wentworth Dillon, the Earl of Roscommon's petition to have his title and lands restoreds as they were in January, 1649 was introduced. This will effect the course of Pepys' friend's life, Col. Cary Dillon.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
About Thursday 15 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Where I found my wife much satisfied with my Lord’s discourse and respect to her ..."
I bet she did. Pepys might remember this day years later. (That's my speculation, not a SPOILER.)
About Thursday 15 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
Suggestion: Instead of typing out the ambiguous "pounds", why don't we type "lbs." -- and if you don't have the "£" symbol on your keyboard, do as Pepys does and type "/.".
(Elsewhere I have found one 'translation' by a non-English person who typed lbs. when the context clearly indicated £. Let's give the foreigners a fighting chance!)
About Tuesday 13 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
Or a Cornish Pasty, RLB.
This concerns the scale of the pie, and that you don't eat the crust, just the innerds.
Nor do you find a whole dead swan posed on top of your pork pie or pasty these days, fortunately.
About Horses
San Diego Sarah • Link
in 2023 MartinVT observed that Sir W. Batten hangs out at the Dolphin Inn frequently. Pepys mentions going to see him at The Dolphin several times in the Diary.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/annota…
In "London, Past and Present" H.B. Wheatley tells this story:
By the beginning of the 17th century Bethlehem Hospital had become one of the London sights, and it so continued till the last quarter of the 18th century.
In Webster's "Westward Ho!" (1607), some of the characters, to pass the time while their horses are being saddled at "the Dolphin, Without Bishopsgate," resolve to "crossover" the road "to Bedlam, to see what Greeks are within," and a highly comic scene ensues.
One of the party happening to turn his back, the rest persuade the keeper that their friend is a lunatic, that his "pericranium is perished."
So The Dolphin was close to Seething Lane, and they rented out horses. That would be a convenient place for the Navy Commissioners to rent horses as needed, just as we rent cars.
About Thursday 1 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
MartinVT later noted that the Dolphin Inn on Thames Street was a much- visited local Inn by Pepys and Adm. Batten -- and probably more of the Navy gang -- and Wheatley tells us they stabled horses there.
I'm happy -- that's where Pepys and Penn got their horses today.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
About The Dolphin (Tower St)
San Diego Sarah • Link
in 2023 MartinVT observed that Sir W. Batten hangs out at the Dolphin just about every night. Pepys mentions going to see him at The Dolphin several times in the diary.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
In "London, Past and Present" H.B. Wheatley tells this story:
By the beginning of the 17th century Bethlehem Hospital had become one of the London sights, and it so continued till the last quarter of the 18th century.
In Webster's Westward Ho! (1607), some of the characters, to pass the time while their horses are being saddled at "the Dolphin, Without Bishopsgate," resolve to "crossover" the road "to Bedlam, to see what Greeks are within," and a highly comic scene ensues.
One of the party happening to turn his back, the rest persuade the keeper that their friend is a lunatic, that his "pericranium is perished."
So it was close to Seething Lane, and rented out horses. Ah-Ha.
About Goose
San Diego Sarah • Link
The goose was also a symbol of what was lost to the enclosure program that enriched the nobility and made the villagers poor:
“Stealing the Common from the Goose”
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from the goose.
The law demands that we atone
When we take things we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who takes things that are yours and mine.
The poor and wretched don’t escape
If they conspire the law to break;
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law.
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back. -- Anon. 17th century poem.
It appears in OnTheCommon’s book, "Celebrating the Commons: People, Ideas and Stories for a New Year".
Sounds like a Levellers' ditty to me.
https://www.onthecommons.org/maga…
About Tuesday 21 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
PART 2
"Take some rose water, vinegar, & salt, & boil them all together in pure water. Of this you take two glasses, & mixing within [one] twice-milled flour, or semola as you like to say, you rub your whole person. Then wash yourself with the remainder: that you will not feel any residue, that it serves the further use as it were to cleanse your body.
"There are some, for whom the odoriferous bath is very useful, so that in the water, in which they want to bathe, they pour in a small jug of water mixed with four or six drops of lavender oil. After that, if one wishes to have a stronger scent; you will have to add some of these things; they are musk, amber, civet, camphor, aloe wood, sweet benjamin, styrax, myrrh, carnations, roses, the bark, flower & leaves of cedar, lemons, oranges, jasmine flowers, laurel fronds, common olive herbs; also such as rosemary, lavender, mint, pennyroyal, & others like them, which only combine through boiling.
"But, when you have prepared the bath; beware, if your beauty is dear to you; that it is not too hot; because your skin would be burned, so that your body would give birth to ailments, & worries. And, since you will be entered in the vessel prepared for it; if you like, you can remove unwanted hair with the following medications."
To the kitchen!
Every summer my mother used to make rose water; sadly she didn't pass along the recipe.
My thanks to Gilbert Wesley Purdy for this information
https://vgs-pbr-reviews.blogspot.…
About Tuesday 21 February 1664/65
San Diego Sarah • Link
Of course, it wasn't just the British who had hygiene problems.
In Venice, Giovanni Marinelli published a book "Gli Ornamenti delle Donne" [The Ornaments of Women] in 1562. The chapter quotes below come from the 1574 edition.
His book was sold alongside the first edition of Marinelli’s "Le medicine partenenti alle infirmità delle donne" [Medicines pertinent to the illnesses of women] which was also released in 1574, and, presumably at the same time, in the shop of Giovanni Valgrisio. The shop was fittingly located at the “Sign of the Victory” in Venice.
The title pages of the books display the mark of the expatriate French printer Vincenza Valgrisi who, in 1570, was fined for publishing prohibited books. Giovanni was probably his son and may have realized that specializing in women's publications was safer and less expensive than his father’s specialty.
"Now, if your body will be free of dirt, & clean; wanting to dispose it toward a better and more attractive ornament than that which it has sustained either through nature or through infirmity, before you proceed to anything else, use the following bath.
"Take a handful of sage leaves, & likewise lavender flowers, roses, & a little bit of salt, which you boil in plain water, or common mineral water. Next you wash your whole person, keeping in mind not to get wet after the meal: because it will cause you very great infirmities. But two hours before food, it comforts the nerves, removes the odor of sweat from the whole body, & of each part of it: it consoles the spirits, & makes them better disposed. The which benefits you will similarly get from the following.
About Monday 12 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
'Given Pall's "ill-nature" and the weeping for joy, my guess is that things are less than harmonious in the old Pepys' family home and everyone is looking for an exit before dastardly deed are done.'
One of the first mentions of Pall in the Diary is when she stole scissors from Elizabeth and Jane Birch's book, and Pepys had to retrieve them.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Resentful young women with zero prospects can be a handful. It's kind of Sam and Elizabeth to give her a second chance. So she starts out as a maid -- if she shapes up, good things might happen. If not, if no one else in the family will take her, hit the road kid.
About Monday 12 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
The 3,000/. -- my bet it was gold coins, which would fit in a trunk, and would warrant locking up.
It could have been a Bill of Exchange, but that would not justify using Jack Spicer's chest.
Phil posted a picture of a Bill of Exchange that Pepys signed:
https://www.pepysdiary.com/indept…
About Sunday 11 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
Does anyone have any idea what Rev. Ralph is talking about:
"Sr J. Jacob . in 56. in arrears 6 year. being. 24 received since 10li. there is due of that 14 and to Sept. 29. 1660. four years more being in all. 16. besides. 14."?
I'm guessing Sir John Jacob was 6 years in arrears on field 56. From there on??? And what business it was of the Rev., I have no idea.
Since it's not 'The Diary', who cares? But if it's country code for something you know about, I'm interested.
About Saturday 28 March 1663
San Diego Sarah • Link
Wonderful link, London Miss -- I love the disclaimer at the top of the page warning us that the science may not be up-to-date and that some of the language may offend today's audience. Robert Hooke lived a scandalous life by our standards, but I doubt it's recorded in the attached pages.
The Wellcome Trust does good works.
About Monday 30 June 1662
San Diego Sarah • Link
The mid-year "Observations" are unusual. They are the closest Pepys gets to sharing his interspections.
As Anais Nin, said "We write to taste life twice, in the moment and in retrospect."
About Friday 9 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
Thank you 3Lamps -- you brought back my joy at being gifted a set of L&M -- they will increase your enjoyment of the Diaries. Can't wait to hear your joy when you crack open the Companion!
About Sunday 11 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... the hog that I saw a fattening the other day at her house ..."
So they personal lots as well as the communal garden??? The Pepys' goose he bought yesterday, if live, must be out there now? If dead, it's probably aging in the basement for a few days.
https://www.gundogmag.com/editori…
About Sunday 11 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... there came after us Sir W. Penn, Mr. Davis, and his eldest son."
Fortunately "Lady" Jane Davis didn't come to church today, but I won my private bet -- they have a teenage son. Another opportunity for Pepys and Davis Snr. to sit together as colleagues, craftily engineered by the Sir Williams.
About Sunday 11 November 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... Dr. Thomas Pepys, who my wife told me after I was come home, that he had told my brother Thomas that he loved my wife so well that if she had a child he would never marry, but leave all that he had to my child, ..."
"Surely an odd comment, unless this was some common expression?"
An odd comment, yes, but it was intended as a compliment, and if true, Pepys and Elizabeth should know that this was a generous sentiment they might want to follow up on.
We are so used to pregnancy being voluntary and sometimes assisted by the medical profession that it's hard for us to comprehend how much pressure there was back in the day to perpetuate the family and the human race. This was Elizabeth's role in life, and that she and Sam had not taken care of business yet was strange to their relatives.
This could be Uncle Thomas' way of keeping his money and property in the family.
We know Elizabeth was gorgeous, young and a little bit exotic. Clearly Uncle Thomas enjoyed looking at her. C'est la vie!
(Ask him over for Christmas lunch, Elizabeth. The old bachelor needs attention.)