"... and so home in two coaches (Mr. Batelier and his sister Mary and my wife and I in one, and Mercer alone in the other); ..."
No mention of Mercer at dinner. Was she included in the party, or did she socialize with the servants? Either way it was uncomfortable for her.
I'm guessing one coach was Pepys', and one was Mr. Batelier's. Going to Lady Pooly's outside the walls means she probably lived in a more country setting so the coachmen had to wait. Presumably Elizabeth and Mercer went to Lady Pooley's with the Bateliers earlier. That could mean there were as many as six people in their coach that afternoon.
Now the toffs go home in one coach and Mercer's alone in the other. Nice to be able to joke around without the servants listening!
I suppose mother Suzanna and daughter Susan stayed at the Pooley's. Logistics like this fascinate me as they show the pecking order in action.
The food must be good to draw clientele like this, and large enough for Pepys and Povy to withdraw to another room for a private talk:
"Thence by appointment to the White Horse Tavern in Lumbard Street, and there dined with my Lord Rutherford, Povy, Mr. Gauden, Creed, and others, and very merry, and after dinner among other things Povy and I withdrew ..." https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
"From the ‘Change with Mr. Deering and Luellin to the White Horse tavern in Lombard Street, and there dined with them ..." https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
"Thence with Sir. W. Batten and Lord Bruncker to the White Horse in Lumbard Streete to dine with Captain Cocke, ..." https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
If Pepys was suggesting these and other meetings, perhaps he had an ulterior motive:
"... my waterman told me how the mistress of the Beare tavern ... did lately fling herself into the Thames, and drowned herself; which did trouble me the more, when they tell me it was she that did live at the White Horse tavern in Lumbard Streete, which was a most beautiful woman, as most I have seen. " https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
"... and she says I must be godfather, but I do not intend it."
Pepys may think Mrs. Lane is setting him up to take responsibility for this child. Standing godparent for an illegitimate child is an old custom, so even if he wasn't the father, such an act could encourage gossip and possibly give Elizabeth cause for concern. Mrs. Lane isn't their social equal. Maybe four years ago, but not now. It doesn't say he gave her any reason to think he would accept.
The arrival of the coach does indicate she was fundraising the old fashioned way. A booth in Westminster Hall must have been a good way to meet wealthy men.
OOOOpppps. " -- Lawson, , "A Declaration; Narrative; Two letters, 1659"; Monthly Intelligencer, Dec. 1659-1660; Publick Intelligencer 26 Dec. 1659-2 Jan. 1660." -- came from the wrong chapter! Sorry about that.
The right reference is: Butler, Lawrence "Whitby in North Africa" published in the Yorkshire Archaeological Journal (Yorkshire 2004), Vol. 76, pp. 171-175; Chomley, "Tangier" pp.4, 9, 16; Rugge, Vol. 2, fos. 3-8, 13-15.
Which clears up how Lawson couldn't have been in the Med and lying still in the Thames at the same time. However, I haven't figured out when this took place. Guess 1661-1662. I'll let you know if I get a better date.
"What did European countries do with captured Barbary Pirates?"
From LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES by Gill Blanchard, Amberley Publishing 2017, ISBN 978 1 4456 6123 page 159:
In late 1659 and early 1660 Lawson is in the Med.: "... [Admiral] John [Lawson] was on patrol hunting for Barbary corsairs while the rest of his fleet continued bombarding Algiers when he captured two enemy ships and freed another from Genoa laden with oil, which the Barbary pirates had taken. One of the vessels was commanded by a renegade; a European who had joined the pirates and converted to Islam. John and his crew made slaves of the 125 captives they took, but released over 30 Christians from different countries who were being held. Slaves taken by John and his fleet were sold to the Spanish while they executed those renegade Christians who had given up their religion and become Muslims." -- Lawson, , "A Declaration; Narrative; Two letters, 1659"; Monthly Intelligencer, Dec. 1659-1660; Publick Intelligencer 26 Dec. 1659-2 Jan. 1660.
From LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES by Gill Blanchard, Amberley Publishing 2017, ISBN 978 1 4456 6123 page 159:
In late 1659 and early 1660 Lawson is in the Med.: "... [Admiral] John [Lawson] was on patrol hunting for Barbary corsairs while the rest of his fleet continued bombarding Algiers when he captured two enemy ships and freed another from Genoa laden with oil, which the Barbary pirates had taken. One of the vessels was commanded by a renegade; a European who had joined the pirates and converted to Islam. John and his crew made slaves of the 125 captives they took, but released over 30 Christians from different countries who were being held. Slaves taken by John and his fleet were sold to the Spanish while they executed those renegade Christians who had given up their religion and become Muslims." -- Lawson, , "A Declaration; Narrative; Two letters, 1659"; Monthly Intelligencer, Dec. 1659-1660; Publick Intelligencer 26 Dec. 1659-2 Jan. 1660.
So that's what they did with captive Barbary pirates.
From London to Portsmouth 73 Miles, thus reckoned:
To Wandsworth 6, to Kingston 6, to Cobham 7, to Guildford 10, to Godalmin 4, to Lippock 12, to Petersfield 8, to Harnden 5, to Portsey Bridge 6, to Postsmouth 4 [sic] (a large, well-built Town in Hampshire, defended by 2 strong Castles, and other Works to secure the Haven; and into this well- fortified Garrison and Seaport, which is the usual Station of the Royal Navy, you must enter over 4 Draw Bridges).
I've lost where this info. came from, but it was contemporary.
Maybe James dictated the memos on Thursday or Friday, and it took a day for Coventry and clerks to get everything written up, copied, checked for accuracy, and signed in absentia? Were there signature stamps or signing machines in those days?
"... This day I hear the Duke of York is come to town, though expected last night, as I observed, but by what hindrance stopped I can not tell."
James, Duke of York was writing memos in Portsmouth yesterday. How can Pepys think he was delayed? It takes him two or three days to make this trip. One idea: they had a relay of fast horses and James galloped the entire way, which I don't think was possible.
'Could someone explain why a "Fishery" would, according to Wheately, be the one granting lotteries?'
Since their understanding of economics was limited, and there was no organized banking system, in order to do anything a Committee like this would have to find a way to fund the improvements. A tariff, tax or license was the usual way to go, but in this case they were thinking of a lottery. Don't know why, but Pepys doubtless did.
"In the bay they were informed of the death of the English Consul (soon after Lord Sandwich's departure from Algiers) and of the battle between the French and the Turks."
Apparently things had deteriorated since:
Monday 13 June 1664 ✹ Pedro on 29 Jun 2007 • Link • Flag On this day in the Med... Both Admiral Sir John Lawson and De Ruyter had previously agreed peace treaties with the Algerians, who De Ruyter described as rouges and scoundrels. These treaties had been broken and both were sent out to deal with the situation.
On 13 June 1664 De Ruyter met Lawson's squadron before Cartagena and a disagreeable incident took place. De Ruyter saluted in the normal way, but Lawson did not reply. When De Ruyter lodged a polite protest, Lawson replied that he had been absolutely forbidden to acknowledge the Dutch salute. The Admiral immediately wrote to the States General ... Notwithstanding these difficulties, he discussed Med matters with Lawson, who had just been to Algiers to deal with the case of the English Consul.
The English consul at Algiers had been imprisoned in the bagno, scandalously treated, and compelled while in chains to drag a cart loaded with stones, for the amusement of the Algiers mob. After the arrival of a new English squadron under Admiral Sir John Lawson the consul's treatment improved but he was still kept under supervision in his own house. -- (Info from The Life of Admiral De Ruyter by Renier)
Admiral Sir John Lawson was not only a first-rate naval officer, but also a man of principle and loved by seamen. With good reason:
From LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES by Gill Blanchard, Amberley Publishing 2017, ISBN 978 1 4456 6123 page 89:
"The sailors in William Penn's fleet presented their own petition in October, and John [Lawson] backed it wholeheartedly. On 17 October 1654 John held a council of war at Spithead, where he persuaded his colleagues to approve the sailor's petition. Their demands were highly significant in political terms, as the sailors followed their demands to be paid more regularly with an appeal to parliament to end impressment. It was, they said, a form on bondage that no freeborn Englishman should endure. The sailors pointed to a number of army declarations on the same subject which reinforced their case, so had good grounds for expecting parliamentary agreement. One naval correspondent confided his fears that if the opportunity arose, three-quarters of the fleet would turn their guns against Cromwell and his government as willingly as they had against the king." -- citation: Lawson, "A Declaration"; Penn, Vol. 2 pp, 188-194
From LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES by Gill Blanchard, Amberley Publishing 2017, ISBN 978 1 4456 6123 page 89:
"The sailors in William Penn's fleet presented their own petition in October, and John [Lawson] backed it wholeheartedly. On 17 October 1654 John held a council of war at Spithead, where he persuaded his colleagues to approve the sailor's petition. Their demands were highly significant in political terms, as the sailors followed their demands to be paid more regularly with an appeal to parliament to end impressment. It was, they said, a form on bondage that no freeborn Englishman should endure. The sailors pointed to a number of army declarations on the same subject which reinforced their case, so had good grounds for expecting parliamentary agreement. One naval correspondent confided his fears that if the opportunity arose, three-quarters of the fleet would turn their guns against Cromwell and his government as willingly as they had against the king." -- citation: Lawson, "A Declaration"; Penn, Vol. 2 pp, 188-194
Alexei Mikhailovich (Tsar of Russia) 1629-1676. He reigned 1645 - 1676.
When King Charles was beheaded by the Parliamentarians under Oliver Cromwell in 1649, an outraged Alexei broke off diplomatic relations with England and accepted Royalist refugees in Moscow. He also banned all English merchants from his country (notably members of the Muscovy Company) and provided financial assistance to "the disconsolate widow of that glorious martyr, King Charles I."
I was reading up on gargoyles this morning, and since this post regards floods, the information belongs here as much as anywhere:
http://www.daimonologia.org/2017/… Both ornamented and unornamented water spouts projecting from roofs at parapet level were a common device used to shed rainwater from buildings until the early 18th century. From that time, more and more buildings bought drainpipes to carry the water from the guttering roof to the ground and only a few buildings using gargoyles were constructed. This was because some people found them frightening, and sometimes heavy ones fell off, causing damage.
"Now, he has the chance to shove "little people" ... about." It's interesting reading these comments in the time of #Me Too. I know -- no current political references!
Comments
Second Reading
About Wednesday 8 August 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... and so home in two coaches (Mr. Batelier and his sister Mary and my wife and I in one, and Mercer alone in the other); ..."
No mention of Mercer at dinner. Was she included in the party, or did she socialize with the servants? Either way it was uncomfortable for her.
I'm guessing one coach was Pepys', and one was Mr. Batelier's. Going to Lady Pooly's outside the walls means she probably lived in a more country setting so the coachmen had to wait. Presumably Elizabeth and Mercer went to Lady Pooley's with the Bateliers earlier. That could mean there were as many as six people in their coach that afternoon.
Now the toffs go home in one coach and Mercer's alone in the other. Nice to be able to joke around without the servants listening!
I suppose mother Suzanna and daughter Susan stayed at the Pooley's. Logistics like this fascinate me as they show the pecking order in action.
About Wednesday 8 August 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
In Terry's Royal Society report, what does Pt. stand for? The President?
About White Horse (Lombard St)
San Diego Sarah • Link
The food must be good to draw clientele like this, and large enough for Pepys and Povy to withdraw to another room for a private talk:
"Thence by appointment to the White Horse Tavern in Lumbard Street, and there dined with my Lord Rutherford, Povy, Mr. Gauden, Creed, and others, and very merry, and after dinner among other things Povy and I withdrew ..."
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
"From the ‘Change with Mr. Deering and Luellin to the White Horse tavern in Lombard Street, and there dined with them ..." https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
"Thence with Sir. W. Batten and Lord Bruncker to the White Horse in Lumbard Streete to dine with Captain Cocke, ..." https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
If Pepys was suggesting these and other meetings, perhaps he had an ulterior motive:
"... my waterman told me how the mistress of the Beare tavern ... did lately fling herself into the Thames, and drowned herself; which did trouble me the more, when they tell me it was she that did live at the White Horse tavern in Lumbard Streete, which was a most beautiful woman, as most I have seen. " https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
About Tuesday 6 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... and she says I must be godfather, but I do not intend it."
Pepys may think Mrs. Lane is setting him up to take responsibility for this child. Standing godparent for an illegitimate child is an old custom, so even if he wasn't the father, such an act could encourage gossip and possibly give Elizabeth cause for concern. Mrs. Lane isn't their social equal. Maybe four years ago, but not now. It doesn't say he gave her any reason to think he would accept.
The arrival of the coach does indicate she was fundraising the old fashioned way. A booth in Westminster Hall must have been a good way to meet wealthy men.
About Saturday 3 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
OOOOpppps. " -- Lawson, , "A Declaration; Narrative; Two letters, 1659"; Monthly Intelligencer, Dec. 1659-1660; Publick Intelligencer 26 Dec. 1659-2 Jan. 1660." -- came from the wrong chapter! Sorry about that.
The right reference is:
Butler, Lawrence "Whitby in North Africa" published in the Yorkshire Archaeological Journal (Yorkshire 2004), Vol. 76, pp. 171-175; Chomley, "Tangier" pp.4, 9, 16; Rugge, Vol. 2, fos. 3-8, 13-15.
Which clears up how Lawson couldn't have been in the Med and lying still in the Thames at the same time. However, I haven't figured out when this took place. Guess 1661-1662. I'll let you know if I get a better date.
About Saturday 3 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
"What did European countries do with captured Barbary Pirates?"
From LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES by Gill Blanchard, Amberley Publishing 2017, ISBN 978 1 4456 6123 page 159:
In late 1659 and early 1660 Lawson is in the Med.: "... [Admiral] John [Lawson] was on patrol hunting for Barbary corsairs while the rest of his fleet continued bombarding Algiers when he captured two enemy ships and freed another from Genoa laden with oil, which the Barbary pirates had taken. One of the vessels was commanded by a renegade; a European who had joined the pirates and converted to Islam. John and his crew made slaves of the 125 captives they took, but released over 30 Christians from different countries who were being held. Slaves taken by John and his fleet were sold to the Spanish while they executed those renegade Christians who had given up their religion and become Muslims." -- Lawson, , "A Declaration; Narrative; Two letters, 1659"; Monthly Intelligencer, Dec. 1659-1660; Publick Intelligencer 26 Dec. 1659-2 Jan. 1660.
About Sir John Lawson
San Diego Sarah • Link
From LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES by Gill Blanchard, Amberley Publishing 2017, ISBN 978 1 4456 6123 page 159:
In late 1659 and early 1660 Lawson is in the Med.: "... [Admiral] John [Lawson] was on patrol hunting for Barbary corsairs while the rest of his fleet continued bombarding Algiers when he captured two enemy ships and freed another from Genoa laden with oil, which the Barbary pirates had taken. One of the vessels was commanded by a renegade; a European who had joined the pirates and converted to Islam. John and his crew made slaves of the 125 captives they took, but released over 30 Christians from different countries who were being held. Slaves taken by John and his fleet were sold to the Spanish while they executed those renegade Christians who had given up their religion and become Muslims." -- Lawson, , "A Declaration; Narrative; Two letters, 1659"; Monthly Intelligencer, Dec. 1659-1660; Publick Intelligencer 26 Dec. 1659-2 Jan. 1660.
So that's what they did with captive Barbary pirates.
About Sunday 4 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
From London to Portsmouth 73 Miles, thus reckoned:
To Wandsworth 6, to Kingston 6, to Cobham 7, to Guildford 10, to Godalmin 4, to Lippock 12, to Petersfield 8, to Harnden 5, to Portsey Bridge 6, to Postsmouth 4 [sic] (a large, well-built Town in Hampshire, defended by 2 strong Castles, and other Works to secure the Haven; and into this well- fortified Garrison and Seaport, which is the usual Station of the Royal Navy, you must enter over 4 Draw Bridges).
I've lost where this info. came from, but it was contemporary.
About Sunday 4 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
Maybe James dictated the memos on Thursday or Friday, and it took a day for Coventry and clerks to get everything written up, copied, checked for accuracy, and signed in absentia? Were there signature stamps or signing machines in those days?
About Monday 5 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
1,500 loads of lumber would have been a fine commission!
About Sunday 4 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... This day I hear the Duke of York is come to town, though expected last night, as I observed, but by what hindrance stopped I can not tell."
James, Duke of York was writing memos in Portsmouth yesterday. How can Pepys think he was delayed? It takes him two or three days to make this trip. One idea: they had a relay of fast horses and James galloped the entire way, which I don't think was possible.
About Royal Fishery
San Diego Sarah • Link
'Could someone explain why a "Fishery" would, according to Wheately, be the one granting lotteries?'
Since their understanding of economics was limited, and there was no organized banking system, in order to do anything a Committee like this would have to find a way to fund the improvements. A tariff, tax or license was the usual way to go, but in this case they were thinking of a lottery. Don't know why, but Pepys doubtless did.
About Saturday 3 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
'To the proffered exchange, he adds, the Moors would not agree, but said: "what men we had of theirs we might sell, and redeem our English".'
The problem with the Barbary Coast was that they had no legitimate way to earn money. Therefore piracy and slavery were what they did.
What did European countries do with captured Barbary Pirates? Ship them off to Jamaica?
About Saturday 3 December 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
"In the bay they were informed of the death of the English Consul (soon after Lord Sandwich's departure from Algiers) and of the battle between the French and the Turks."
Apparently things had deteriorated since:
Monday 13 June 1664
✹ Pedro on 29 Jun 2007 • Link • Flag
On this day in the Med...
Both Admiral Sir John Lawson and De Ruyter had previously agreed peace treaties with the Algerians, who De Ruyter described as rouges and scoundrels. These treaties had been broken and both were sent out to deal with the situation.
On 13 June 1664 De Ruyter met Lawson's squadron before Cartagena and a disagreeable incident took place. De Ruyter saluted in the normal way, but Lawson did not reply. When De Ruyter lodged a polite protest, Lawson replied that he had been absolutely forbidden to acknowledge the Dutch salute. The Admiral immediately wrote to the States General ... Notwithstanding these difficulties, he discussed Med matters with Lawson, who had just been to Algiers to deal with the case of the English Consul.
The English consul at Algiers had been imprisoned in the bagno, scandalously treated, and compelled while in chains to drag a cart loaded with stones, for the amusement of the Algiers mob. After the arrival of a new English squadron under Admiral Sir John Lawson the consul's treatment improved but he was still kept under supervision in his own house. -- (Info from The Life of Admiral De Ruyter by Renier)
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Did Sandwich go to Algeria in 1664? And does anyone know who the dead British diplomat was?
About Sir John Lawson
San Diego Sarah • Link
Admiral Sir John Lawson was not only a first-rate naval officer, but also a man of principle and loved by seamen. With good reason:
From LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES by Gill Blanchard, Amberley Publishing 2017, ISBN 978 1 4456 6123 page 89:
"The sailors in William Penn's fleet presented their own petition in October, and John [Lawson] backed it wholeheartedly. On 17 October 1654 John held a council of war at Spithead, where he persuaded his colleagues to approve the sailor's petition. Their demands were highly significant in political terms, as the sailors followed their demands to be paid more regularly with an appeal to parliament to end impressment. It was, they said, a form on bondage that no freeborn Englishman should endure. The sailors pointed to a number of army declarations on the same subject which reinforced their case, so had good grounds for expecting parliamentary agreement. One naval correspondent confided his fears that if the opportunity arose, three-quarters of the fleet would turn their guns against Cromwell and his government as willingly as they had against the king." -- citation: Lawson, "A Declaration"; Penn, Vol. 2 pp, 188-194
About Saturday 1 October 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
From LAWSON LIES STILL IN THE THAMES by Gill Blanchard, Amberley Publishing 2017, ISBN 978 1 4456 6123 page 89:
"The sailors in William Penn's fleet presented their own petition in October, and John [Lawson] backed it wholeheartedly. On 17 October 1654 John held a council of war at Spithead, where he persuaded his colleagues to approve the sailor's petition. Their demands were highly significant in political terms, as the sailors followed their demands to be paid more regularly with an appeal to parliament to end impressment. It was, they said, a form on bondage that no freeborn Englishman should endure. The sailors pointed to a number of army declarations on the same subject which reinforced their case, so had good grounds for expecting parliamentary agreement. One naval correspondent confided his fears that if the opportunity arose, three-quarters of the fleet would turn their guns against Cromwell and his government as willingly as they had against the king." -- citation: Lawson, "A Declaration"; Penn, Vol. 2 pp, 188-194
About Alexei Mikhailovich (Tsar of Russia)
San Diego Sarah • Link
Alexei Mikhailovich (Tsar of Russia) 1629-1676. He reigned 1645 - 1676.
When King Charles was beheaded by the Parliamentarians under Oliver Cromwell in 1649, an outraged Alexei broke off diplomatic relations with England and accepted Royalist refugees in Moscow. He also banned all English merchants from his country (notably members of the Muscovy Company) and provided financial assistance to "the disconsolate widow of that glorious martyr, King Charles I."
About Thursday 8 October 1663
San Diego Sarah • Link
I was reading up on gargoyles this morning, and since this post regards floods, the information belongs here as much as anywhere:
http://www.daimonologia.org/2017/…
Both ornamented and unornamented water spouts projecting from roofs at parapet level were a common device used to shed rainwater from buildings until the early 18th century. From that time, more and more buildings bought drainpipes to carry the water from the guttering roof to the ground and only a few buildings using gargoyles were constructed. This was because some people found them frightening, and sometimes heavy ones fell off, causing damage.
About Tuesday 29 November 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
That expensive new red outfit is getting lots of wear. It was a good investment. I still think he either looked like Elvis or Santa.
About Tuesday 29 November 1664
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Now, he has the chance to shove "little people" ... about." It's interesting reading these comments in the time of #Me Too. I know -- no current political references!